What's a Sound Check?

[jimiv]

Soundcheck? We rarely have a gig where there is time for a soundcheck. First song is the soundcheck. FOH first obviously, then monitors are tweaked if needed. Doesn't take long. Nice when we have a soundman, PITA when we don't. Monitors usually don't take much changing from the last gig, once you hit the sweet spot. you use that as the baseline for the next gig and usually not much changes.

[SeniorBlues]

 

Soundcheck? We rarely have a gig where there is time for a soundcheck. First song is the soundcheck.

 

 

Tell me about your first song. Arbitrary? Jam? Designed for the purpose? This issue doesn't seem to apply to most guys here, apparently, but for my band at the moment, it's an issue.

[jimiv]

 

Tell me about your first song. Arbitrary? Jam? Designed for the purpose? This issue doesn't seem to apply to most guys here, apparently, but for my band at the moment, it's an issue.

 

 

No, never arbitrary and absolutely not a jam. Must be a song where everyone is singing like No Matter What, or Twist and Shout, etc. because the vocals are what needs to be out front and done quickly. The rest comes underneath that. Like I said before, We usually have the board already set from the preceding gig. Usually no big changes. If we are in a small room and the last gig was a large room or we were outside, or vice versa, I have pictures of the board titled with the venue we were at to look at and get a pre-set before we even plug in. Really hurries things along, never had an issue, but that's when we don't have our soundguy and I need to cheat a little.

[stratotastic]

 

Tell me about your first song. Arbitrary? Jam? Designed for the purpose? This issue doesn't seem to apply to most guys here, apparently, but for my band at the moment, it's an issue.

 

 

Most of the time we start with Can't Go Home by Bon Jovi. Fairly low-key song, both lead vocalists involved, both guitars full-chord strumming, a little solo, and most importantly, a "meh" enough tune that it doesn't grab the crowd's eager attention and they don't miss too much if anything weird happens. There are a few other tunes that fit that description that we might switch it up for.

[Leftcoast123]

Back in the 5-piece days when I mixed sound from the stage, we did exactly this. Our opening song was always "When the World Is Runnin' Down" by the Police.

 

 

Killer tune.

For us it's usually just a line check but if we're using a house tech then we might do a chunk of a song or two, maybe No Matter What or a tracks tune if we're without keys that night.

[Vito Corleone]

Monitor mixes shouldn't have to change per venue other the 31 band EQ and wedge volume. The balance should remain the same pretty much. Right? I like my vocal blend equal straight across and a little kick. Bam, doesn't change in the venue cross town. He likes his vocal up and the rest mixed slightly back, nothing else in the mix. Bam, stays the same regardless of where we are. Right?

 

 

Right. Things like drums and vocal levels shouldn't change in the monitor mixes between gigs/rooms. The only things that do are instruments where the stage volume might be louder/quieter from one gig to the next and therefore somebody needs more or less of it in their monitor.

[Vito Corleone]

Killer tune.

 

 

Yeah it was fun. We did a version where we started off doing the Police version and then kicked into the jazzier Sting live version from the "Bring On The Night" album about halfway through. Doesn't really fit what the band does now, and we don't have the sax player anymore. I miss that element of the band. If I found another guy/girl who could sing/play sax/play harmonica/play percussion like he did, I'd be all over adding a 7th member.

[gspointer]

Things got really easy when we went to amp sims and e-drums with IEM's.

[theGman]

When our bass player complained about my low notes stepping on him, I just split the keyboards, repeating the middle octave and a half or so at the low end of the board...no more stepping on the bass, and the keyboards sounded even better with the left hand now playing notes which could be heard. Works for me.

[wades_keys]

 

No, never arbitrary and absolutely not a jam. Must be a song where everyone is singing like No Matter What, or Twist and Shout, etc. because the vocals are what needs to be out front and done quickly. The rest comes underneath that. Like I said before, We usually have the board already set from the preceding gig. Usually no big changes. If we are in a small room and the last gig was a large room or we were outside, or vice versa, I have pictures of the board titled with the venue we were at to look at and get a pre-set before we even plug in. Really hurries things along, never had an issue, but that's when we don't have our soundguy and I need to cheat a little.

 

That's almost exactly what my old band did, but the song was "Hard to Handle".

 

After a year of starting every gig with that song, it got bumped and I never found another tune that worked as well as that for quick fixing the vocals like you said.

 

We (I ran the sound from stage for 3 years) did the same thing too, keeping the levels set from gig to gig, and I took a few pictures of settings too.

 

This is timely, as I just got back from our first rehearsal with the just-purchased mains setup for vocals, and already it looks like I'm going to have to step in and move things around and get the gain staging right....Definitely this band will have a soundman if it gets off the ground the way we want it to, but I'm guessing for the first year we'll be running our own. Yeah fun! Hey, as long as I don't have to rent and/or drive the trailer full of PA I'm good!

[modulusman]

 

That's almost exactly what my old band did, but the song was "Hard to Handle". After a year of starting every gig with that song, it got bumped and I never found another tune that worked as well as that for quick fixing the vocals like you said. We (I ran the sound from stage for 3 years) did the same thing too, keeping the levels set from gig to gig, and I took a few pictures of settings too. This is timely, as I just got back from our first rehearsal with the just-purchased mains setup for vocals, and already it looks like I'm going to have to step in and move things around and get the gain staging right....Definitely this band will have a soundman if it gets off the ground the way we want it to, but I'm guessing for the first year we'll be running our own. Yeah fun! Hey, as long as I don't have to rent and/or drive the trailer full of PA I'm good!

 

 

What did they buy?

[jimiv]

 

That's almost exactly what my old band did, but the song was "Hard to Handle". After a year of starting every gig with that song, it got bumped and I never found another tune that worked as well as that for quick fixing the vocals like you said. We (I ran the sound from stage for 3 years) did the same thing too, keeping the levels set from gig to gig, and I took a few pictures of settings too. This is timely, as I just got back from our first rehearsal with the just-purchased mains setup for vocals, and already it looks like I'm going to have to step in and move things around and get the gain staging right....Definitely this band will have a soundman if it gets off the ground the way we want it to, but I'm guessing for the first year we'll be running our own. Yeah fun! Hey, as long as I don't have to rent and/or drive the trailer full of PA I'm good!

 

 

We never used that song because there are no back ground vocals, but it would otherwise work if you're not concerned with that.

[Vito Corleone]

We never used that song because there are no back ground vocals, but it would otherwise work if you're not concerned with that.

 

 

When we sound check we try to use a song that has a much "everything" in it as possible. i.e. everyone singing, me playing keys and guitar, the electronic percussion, etc. Usually takes a couple of songs to get everything in.

 

Or we just play something that needs rehearsing.

[jimiv]

 

When we sound check we try to use a song that has a much "everything" in it as possible. i.e. everyone singing, me playing keys and guitar, the electronic percussion, etc. Usually takes a couple of songs to get everything in. Or we just play something that needs rehearsing.

 

 

What song do you play keys AND guitar, because that sounds cool.

[Vito Corleone]

What song do you play keys AND guitar, because that sounds cool.

 

 

"Jessie's Girl" I play guitar but play keys during the bridge

"Sweet Home Alabama" I play guitar except for the piano solo at the end

"American Girl" I play guitar except for the piano part during the bridge

"What I Like About You" I play guitar and play a keyboard solo where the harp solo should be

"The Lazy Song" I play acoustic guitar but play the whistles on the keys.

 

I can't think of any others offhand.

[WynnD]

Soundman? Monitors? Drum mics? We had none of those last week. Mostly, I'm trying to get at the fact that in many venues where setting up hours in advance is not practical, the first song you play is often used as a sound check. But don't forget . . . . it's your opening number!

 

 

Just a thought, but opening with an instrumental then having the second song with only the lead vocalist singing might result in a better mix before song number 3. (I really hate working with someone else's idea of a sound engineer. If they're mediocre, you're probably better off.)

[SeniorBlues]

 

Just a thought, but opening with an instrumental then having the second song with only the lead vocalist singing might result in a better mix before song number 3. (I really hate working with someone else's idea of a sound engineer. If they're mediocre, you're probably better off.)

 

 

Much to my surprise, we "opened" with an instrumental . . . one that wasn't on the set list that I hadn't played since HS. It felt like a throwaway and didn't serve the purpose of getting the instruments balanced since I wasn't sure of the changes, so I laid back, of course. At the very least, the song should be something that everyone can play confidently at a volume that is typical of the rest of the set list.

 

It's also a challenge to balance the various keyboard settings in the mix throughout the night. Based on reports I'm getting about some of the resident sound guys we might have to work with, I'd rather not go DI. Let me work it out, thank you.

[Vito Corleone]

It's also a challenge to balance the various keyboard settings in the mix throughout the night. Based on reports I'm getting about some of the resident sound guys we might have to work with, I'd rather not go DI. Let me work it out, thank you.

 

 

Whether you go DI or not, you're still responsible from onstage for the levels of your keyboards going to the mixer.

[SeniorBlues]

 

Whether you go DI or not, you're still responsible from onstage for the levels of your keyboards going to the mixer.

 

 

Well sure, but that doesn't keep somebody who's sitting at the mixer from fussing with it regardless.

[Vito Corleone]

Well sure, but that doesn't keep somebody who's sitting at the mixer from fussing with it regardless.

 

 

Hmmmm....ok. I guess I misunderstood something.

 

By "not going DI" are you saying you'll just run all your sound and volume from onstage and not put your keys through the PA at all. I guess that's an option. Not sure how that makes it any easier to keep your levels consistant, though. And how do you know if you're balancing ANYTHING "in the mix"? All you know is how the mix sounds from your spot on the stage. You have no idea if it's blended well out front or not.

 

You should probably try running your keyboard through a mixer with a level meter and setting all your patches to the same level. It isn't a 100% solution, but at least you'll have a better starting point.

[SeniorBlues]

 

Hmmmm....ok. I guess I misunderstood something. By "not going DI" are you saying you'll just run all your sound and volume from onstage and not put your keys through the PA at all. I guess that's an option. Not sure how that makes it any easier to keep your levels consistant, though. And do you know you're balancing ANYTHING "in the mix"? All you know is how the mix sounds from your spot on the stage. You have no idea if it's blended well out front or not. You should probably try running your keyboard through a mixer with a level meter and setting all your patches to the same level. It isn't a 100% solution, but at least you'll have a better starting point.

 

 

. . . except that some songs are keyboard dominant, others sit back in the mix . . . and you may use the same patch for both.

 

Obviously, in general, there's what you hear, what your band mates hear, and what the audience hears. I suspect we'll be dealing with a fairly lo-tech set up most of the time so I'm taking it one gig at a time. (You wouldn't believe how bizarre last week's parking lot set up was.) Again, the purpose of this thread is to figure out what sort of song selection and arrangement accomplishes the task.

[glepko]

you want a bad sound check and bad mix, refuse to use DI on your keys rig. as sound professionals we are not the unreasonable parties

[Vito Corleone]

. . . except that some songs are keyboard dominant, others sit back in the mix . . . and you may use the same patch for both. Obviously, in general, there's what you hear, what your band mates hear, and what the audience hears.

 

 

Hmmmm.... and hmmmmm...

 

"In general", I'd say that the mix from your side of the stage, from the guitarist's side of the stage, and what the audience hears are 3 different mixes. And if you're changing the volume of your patches based on YOUR perception of where-it-should-sit-in-the-mix, can I presume the guitarist and other chairs are all doing the same thing? Sounds to me like there's would be a lot of volume shifting going on trying to find your spot while everyone else does the same.

 

Sure, there are times you want to pull back a bit on a part that doesn't really need to be THAT prominent....but it's shouldn't really happen that often or to any great degree.

 

 

I suspect we'll be dealing with a fairly lo-tech set up most of the time so I'm taking it one gig at a time. (You wouldn't believe how bizarre last week's parking lot set up was.) Again, the purpose of this thread is to figure out what sort of song selection and arrangement accomplishes the task.

 

 

Why bother to soundcheck a particular song if on the next one everyone on stage is going to re-adjust their levels because they are all playing soundman at the same time? Seems to me it would just be a waste of time. Lo-tech setup or not, you really don't want to be futzing with levels too much. Everyone should find the level that works for them on stage and then see how it sounds outfront and adjust accordingly and LEAVE IT ALONE.

 

I understand your concern regarding lousy soundmen in your area, but I'd take a bad one over what you're describing.

[SeniorBlues]

 

Why bother to soundcheck a particular song if on the next one everyone on stage is going to re-adjust their levels because they are all playing soundman at the same time? Seems to me it would just be a waste of time. Lo-tech setup or not, you really don't want to be futzing with levels too much. Everyone should find the level that works for them on stage and then see how it sounds outfront and adjust accordingly and LEAVE IT ALONE.

 

 

Agreed . . . which is why you don't want somebody fooling around with HIS idea about where you should sit in the mix on an ongoing basis.

 

Heck, I'd trust my wife's general observations about who is too loud or too quiet.

[Vito Corleone]

Again, the purpose of this thread is to figure out what sort of song selection and arrangement accomplishes the task.

 

 

Who is going to be running the board? I would think the primary answer to this question is "what does the sound man need?" When I was running sound on stage, I liked to make sure all the mics and lines were functional, then take time (even I risked annoying a few patrons) to get the kick sounding good, and then do a "build one instrument/one voice at a time" song. Other sound guys are going to have different ways they like to do things.

 

We use sound men exclusively these days -- pretty much only one, but when he can't make it--as is the case this coming Saturday--we have a few others we can call upon -- and these guys are all pros and used to running the mix cold. It shouldn't change much from gig-to-gig (unless the musicians are futzing with their levels a lot.....) I posted a few live clips from a gig a couple of weeks ago and the one of us doing "Boogie Oogie Oogie" was our opening number with no sound check. Low fidelity and virtually no low end from the cheap mic aside, you can hear the sound guy get the mix pretty good by the end of the first chorus. At first the guitar is too loud and the vocal harmonies aren't blending too well. By the middle of the song, it's sounding pretty tight.

 

My keys disappear by a song from the middle of the 2nd set, but I realized I have to take at least partial blame for that. The organ patch I like to use is a bit quiet. I dunno why---I've got it cranked as high internally as it goes, and I crank the keyboard to full volume on stage for that song (I usually leave it at about 50%) but it's still quiet. Still, the sound guy should have caught that and turned it up, but it obviously wasn't there. Even though the mix was pretty decent from where I was. That's part of the risk of futzing with volumes too much---you're likely to make matters worse for the sound guy.

 

I solved (I hope) that particular problem by running the organ patch through a separate output and into it's own channel on my mixer so I can mix the organ patch better from there. Which I was planning on doing anyway as I've grown tired of the internal leslie effect on the keyboard and want to run the organ through the Neo Ventilator.