Members Potts Posted July 30, 2012 Members Share Posted July 30, 2012 OK...I'm sure this seems weird but I figured what the hell- there's a lot of smart people here. I'm taking a History of Western Civilization class and there's no textbook and the lectures suck. The last essay that I did I got an A on but the professor said it was more than he wanted because I did so much research on it. Whatever- did he just want me to mail it in??? At any rate we're discussing ancient Greece and the Romans. The question is as follows: The Ancient Greeks were thinkers. The Romans were doers. Explain... So I'm opening this up to some discussion for our history majors here. This could be a nice change of pace from the constant bull{censored} debates that has flooded this forum lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted July 30, 2012 Members Share Posted July 30, 2012 Well the Romans didn't use music stands but they did wears sandals to gigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Potts Posted July 30, 2012 Author Members Share Posted July 30, 2012 Well the Romans didn't use music stands but they did wears sandals to gigs. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 30, 2012 Moderators Share Posted July 30, 2012 The Romans prided themselves on conquering and ruling. Then, wanting to tie all the conquests together. All roads lead to Rome. You know what they say about the Roman roads. Very well made. So they were doers. They appropriated things as their own. Even the Roman gods were "borrowed" from the Greeks via the Iliad. The Greeks, on the other hand, made many discoveries and were as a result well versed in mathematics, geometry, astronomy. The Romans used all those discoveries. Used them. Doers. The Romans built aqueducts, dams, roads, bridges, architecture. Much of this doer mentality of the Romans was facilitated by the discoveries of the Greeks. The Romans were realists, the Greeks, dreamers. A Roman statue of a leader has a big nose, the Greek version would be idealized view of that leader. And a pretty nose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted July 30, 2012 Members Share Posted July 30, 2012 The question is over-generalized bull{censored}, but.... How long does it have to be? What have you covered so far? A couple of useful (if reductive) dichotomies (along the lines of Lee's points above): Greek philosophy vs. Roman law. Plato's Republic discusses the general principles of a city-state. Justinian's Code puts those principles into practice. Greek art vs. Roman engineering. Columns in Greek times (Ionian, Corinthian) were objects of beauty, and were carved for specific aesthetic qualities. Roman waterworks and bridges where built with columns that, while still beautiful, had strict engineering and load bearing qualities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 30, 2012 Moderators Share Posted July 30, 2012 The question is over-generalized bull{censored}, but.... Precisely why I gave an over-generalized bull{censored} answer. But yeah, Ram, you make a great point. The Greeks had many cities situated from from each other and not sharing all that much is common with what the stereotypical view of them is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted July 30, 2012 Members Share Posted July 30, 2012 I thought your answer was a great start, Lee. It was general but it was also true. Sat at a bar in west London with 2 old ladies from Wallsend. I mentioned that that was a weird name for a town and they said, well, that is where the wall ends. Me being the stupid American ask "what wall?". I was lectured on history and yes, it is where the wall built by the Romans ended. Constructions started in 122 AD and it is still there. Romans were doers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted July 30, 2012 Members Share Posted July 30, 2012 I thought your answer was a great start, Lee. It was general but it was also true. Sat at a bar in west London with 2 old ladies from Wallsend. I mentioned that that was a weird name for a town and they said, well, that is where the wall ends. Me being the stupid American ask "what wall?". I was lectured on history and yes, it is where the wall built by the Romans ended. Constructions started in 122 AD and it is still there. Romans were doers. Construction of the Parthenon started in 447 BC and it is still there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kmart Posted July 30, 2012 Members Share Posted July 30, 2012 The Romans prided themselves on conquering and ruling. Then, wanting to tie all the conquests together. All roads lead to Rome. You know what they say about the Roman roads. Very well made. So they were doers. They appropriated things as their own. Even the Roman gods were "borrowed" from the Greeks via the Iliad. The Greeks, on the other hand, made many discoveries and were as a result well versed in mathematics, geometry, astronomy. The Romans used all those discoveries. Used them. Doers. The Romans built aqueducts, dams, roads, bridges, architecture. Much of this doer mentality of the Romans was facilitated by the discoveries of the Greeks. The Romans were realists, the Greeks, dreamers. A Roman statue of a leader has a big nose, the Greek version would be idealized view of that leader. And a pretty nose. This, but as an extension/further thought process for your thesis, whip this on him... The Roman Empire, created by the DOERS, was an EXCLUSIVE entity in that it's purpose was to conquer and consume. And it pretty much doesn't exist: Rome fell (or declined if you prefer). Some of the physical landmarks of the empire still exist, sure, but the actual Empire is no more... The collected thoughts of the Greeks, the THINKERS, were ultimately an INCLUSIVE entity, or at least an inviting thing, based on the premise of debate, etc. What that kind of open discourse led to...critical reasoning, logic, advanced math, the sciences, etc. Those are all things that not only endure, but expand and grow more so than any empire ever could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted July 30, 2012 Members Share Posted July 30, 2012 Construction of the Parthenon started in 447 BC and it is still there. It was more an illustration of my ignorance in a foreign country. I knew there were earlier projects that are still around, I was just amazed that these 2 old ladies were from Wallsend, England and it was just a matter of fact that that is where the wall ended. The Greeks have many great examples of architecture within Greece but not so much throughout the region, especially compared to the Roman Empire. The Greeks were thinkers and the Romans were doers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted July 30, 2012 Members Share Posted July 30, 2012 This, but as an extension/further thought process for your thesis, whip this on him... The Roman Empire, created by the DOERS, was an EXCLUSIVE entity in that it's purpose was to conquer and consume. And it pretty much doesn't exist: Rome fell (or declined if you prefer). Some of the physical landmarks of the empire still exist, sure, but the actual Empire is no more... The collected thoughts of the Greeks, the THINKERS, were ultimately an INCLUSIVE entity, or at least an inviting thing, based on the premise of debate, etc. What that kind of open discourse led to...critical reasoning, logic, advanced math, the sciences, etc. Those are all things that not only endure, but expand and grow more so than any empire ever could. Peoples who were conquered by the Romans had significant legal rights within the Roman empire (the exact extent of these rights varied over time, but they were explictly INCLUDED in the political process almost from the beginning). To be a citizen of a Greek city-state, you pretty much had to be born there, otherwise you were explicitly EXCLUDED from the political process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Potts Posted July 30, 2012 Author Members Share Posted July 30, 2012 The essay is only 3-5 pages. As far as over generalized bull{censored} I agree. I'm not a big fan of the professor, his teaching style or his credentials. Thank God this is a summer session and I only have less than two weeks left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Christhee68 Posted July 30, 2012 Members Share Posted July 30, 2012 . A Roman statue of a leader has a big nose, the Greek version would be idealized view of that leader. And a pretty nose. Not to generalize, but I just watched the Olympic parade and the Greeks were pretty strong in the looks department. The Italians...maybe, maybe not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 30, 2012 Moderators Share Posted July 30, 2012 Not to generalize, but I just watched the Olympic parade and the Greeks were pretty strong in the looks department. The Italians...maybe, maybe not. Ha! Well... there's that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mr3lions Posted July 30, 2012 Members Share Posted July 30, 2012 www.essaytyper.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members msmooth Posted July 30, 2012 Members Share Posted July 30, 2012 It depends if you are looking at the Republic of Rome or the Roman Empire. In the Republic, the govt. was ruled by the Senate and 2 Co-Counsels who served 1 year terms. To be come Counsel, you had to hold lower offices and lead the military. Everything was base on personal ambition and family honor. The system was set up for ambitious men, but had checks and balances in case the man was too ambitious (ie: Julias Ceasar). If you have time I reccomend that you listen to the free podcast (itunes and audible.com) by Dan Carlin called Harcore History. There is a multi-part episode about the fall of the Roman Empire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted July 31, 2012 Members Share Posted July 31, 2012 It depends if you are looking at the Republic of Rome or the Roman Empire. In the Republic, the govt. was ruled by the Senate and 2 Co-Counsels who served 1 year terms. To be come Counsel, you had to hold lower offices and lead the military. Everything was base on personal ambition and family honor. The system was set up for ambitious men, but had checks and balances in case the man was too ambitious (ie: Julias Ceasar). If you have time I reccomend that you listen to the free podcast (itunes and audible.com) by Dan Carlin called Harcore History. There is a multi-part episode about the fall of the Roman Empire. I love this place... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Potts Posted July 31, 2012 Author Members Share Posted July 31, 2012 It depends if you are looking at the Republic of Rome or the Roman Empire. In the Republic, the govt. was ruled by the Senate and 2 Co-Counsels who served 1 year terms. To be come Counsel, you had to hold lower offices and lead the military. Everything was base on personal ambition and family honor. The system was set up for ambitious men, but had checks and balances in case the man was too ambitious (ie: Julias Ceasar). If you have time I reccomend that you listen to the free podcast (itunes and audible.com) by Dan Carlin called Harcore History. There is a multi-part episode about the fall of the Roman Empire. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Potts Posted July 31, 2012 Author Members Share Posted July 31, 2012 Thanks for all of the replies...believe it or not it gives me a little bit of food for thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bigboy78 Posted July 31, 2012 Members Share Posted July 31, 2012 So does BSWTB have more Romans or Greeks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Louis Schwartz Posted July 31, 2012 Members Share Posted July 31, 2012 I don't know what sort of expectations your prof has or what he thinks the purpose of his question is, but if it were MY classroom, the "A" essay would be the one that complicates the over-simplification of the the question: "While there's some truth in the dichotomy...[blah, blah, blah, the basic examples etc], there are some important ways in which the Romans did think and the Greeks...[etc., with some telling examples drawn from the course materials and some research]...." But that's just me. Louis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Potts Posted July 31, 2012 Author Members Share Posted July 31, 2012 I agree! I will more than likely take hat approach. I got my first paper back with an A on it and I seriously felt cheated. There were no comments, notes or anything else that indicated he actually read it. Some would think "whatever" and just take the A. Not me- I'm paying for school and I want 4 hours worth of writing graded properly. ...." But that's just me. Louis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Louis Schwartz Posted July 31, 2012 Members Share Posted July 31, 2012 I agree! I will more than likely take hat approach. I got my first paper back with an A on it and I seriously felt cheated. There were no comments, notes or anything else that indicated he actually read it. Some would think "whatever" and just take the A. Not me- I'm paying for school and I want 4 hours worth of writing graded properly. I don't blame you. Some people just don't do their jobs fully. It's not always easy to say a lot when the class is large and the prof has no assistants (I don't know if either is true in this situtation), but he ought to be offering at least some commentary and some engagement with both the content and the style. Louis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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