promoting your own shows

[pogo97]

I recently listened to a pub owner rail on about a musician who is a wonderful guitar player, fine singer, fine writer etc. who he recently dropped (and who is a very long-time friend of mine). The thrust was that the musician should have put more time/money/effort into promoting his gigs at the pub. "The time is past when a musician can just come in and play and expect the owner to do everything else." etc. etc.

 

My friend lives about an hour away and I have no idea what he'd do to effectively promote himself here. Coming in ahead to put up posters would cost almost as much the gig pays ffs. In fact, I think he's blaming the player's attitude when the problem is that too few of his clients have any interest in "challenging" music (i.e. not 70s greatest hits). But that's not my interest here.... I'm wondering what such a small player can actually do to boost attendance--so much of advertising is based on wishful thinking, something that's known to work would be nice.

[fingerpicker]

It's pretty hard. Most time posters and the like do only so much. If you live close by to your gigs then it's much easier. I do some promo but mostly I spend money at all the places I play at and become friends with many regulars, staff, and management. It's alot harder to fire your friend!

 

Most of my gigs are super close though.

[Guitarman63]

I have found out Face Book is a pretty valuable promotion tool. I have 1300 "friends" (some I do not really know lol) but I add anyone who wants on the list. I plug all my gigs on there, it works.

[BlueStrat]

I use FB a lot. Emails, word of mouth...but when I hear this,

 

 

"The time is past when a musician can just come in and play and expect the owner to do everything else." etc. etc.

 

my blood boils. Does the guy do nothing to lift a finger to promote his own business the other 5 or 6 days he doesn't have entertainment ? Who does he blame for low turnout then? Some of these guys are just so short sighted.

[Terry Allan Hall]

I recently listened to a pub owner rail on about a musician who is a wonderful guitar player, fine singer, fine writer etc. who he recently dropped (and who is a very long-time friend of mine). The thrust was that the musician should have put more time/money/effort into promoting his gigs at the pub. "The time is past when a musician can just come in and play and expect the owner to do everything else." etc. etc. My friend lives about an hour away and I have no idea what he'd do to effectively promote himself here. Coming in ahead to put up posters would cost almost as much the gig pays ffs. In fact, I think he's blaming the player's attitude when the problem is that too few of his clients have any interest in "challenging" music (i.e. not 70s greatest hits). But that's not my interest here.... I'm wondering what such a small player can actually do to boost attendance--so much of advertising is based on wishful thinking, something that's known to work would be nice.

 

I've had fairly good results through using Twitter, but I also use other sites, email/snail mail lists, posters, and contact with print media, etc

 

That venue owner is cutting his own throat by not using all of these sources for advertising HIS venue, himself, rather than expecting the entertainers to do so...

[leftyjay]

over the years, i have built quite an email list for people that want to know where i'm playing. each month i send out a calendar to the email list. i also use facebook every week to remind friends where i'm performing.

 

i think the owner is slacking and hurting himself by not jumping on the internet bandwagon and advertise his business on his own website or facebook

[richardmac]

There's a harsh reality to this question and it's not discussed much. But to think about what sort of "audience" you can "draw," in your home town, you'd make a list that looks something like this:

 

1. Immediate family

2. Extended family

3. Close friends

4. Casual and/or work friends

5. Strangers who enjoy your show and/or music (aka actual "fans")

 

You can schedule a show and populate it with 1-4, and this happens a lot. All the time. And if this group is big enough, you can book a decent venue. But what you really need to have a consistent "draw" is a big #5 group. And in order to get a big #5 group, you need to put on a "show" where people can dance and/or drink.

 

Before I get flamed, yes, there ARE exceptions. A singer/songwriter can get big enough in his home town to book a show and have 100 people show up. It can happen. It almost never does, meaning the percentage is very low, but it can.

 

But unless you happen to live someplace where there's a very hip cool music scene, if you're not playing music that people can dance to, getting the #5's out to see you consistently will be crazy difficult.

 

Because the harsh reality (the phrase from my intro sentence) is that MOST people don't really want to go out and have a nice sit down and listen to some music. This ain't the 60's. We're not competing with two radio stations and three tv stations. Entertainment is far more exciting now, and the only people who want to go somewhere and actually LISTEN to music are musicians. Everyone else who goes out specifically to hear music wants to dance to it, drink to it, or hit on the opposite sex at it.

 

So this idea of promoting your show... if you're doing music that people can dance to, then promotion might help you. Promotion will always help with 1-4. And if you make it sound cool and fun enough, the #5's might show.

 

Regarding the venue. The places who expect musicians to bring their friends to drink at the venue bar... in many cases, those places don't last too long. It's the same deal with coffee shops. If the venue can't attract a regular crowd, having musicians bring their 1-4's in is not a great business plan.

 

You can drive a truck through some of what I'm saying, because there are always exceptions. I'm just speaking generally. But I think as a performer you really need to know what it is you do. If people can dance to your music, you're going to have an easier time making money and getting people to come and see you. If people can't dance to you, then you probably need to look into being the background music... upscale wine bars, restaurants, venues like that. If you are great and in a genre that people like, then there may be festival and other similar opportunities. It's all about knowing what you do and being realistic about it. If you're a sullen moody singer/songwriter, it's going to be very difficult to attract the #5's.

[fingerpicker]

Funny those whoe come to my gigs:

I have no #1--No #2--Few #3--and my #4's are pretty much my #5's

[pogo97]

 

There's a harsh reality to this question and it's not discussed much. But to think about what sort of "audience" you can "draw," in your home town..

 

 

How about the folks at the pub that you didn't draw? Some may actually enjoy you enough to look for you again when they're going out for an evening. Not fans, maybe, but attracted enough that they'd pick where you were playing if they were looking for that kind of a time. How do you make that easy for them to do?

[Mike McLaughlin]

All good comments. I agree, it shouldn't rest solely on the performer, the venue should also promote their business and the entertainment offered.

 

What I do is list my show dates on Reverbnation. Then a couple days before the show, it automatically posts to my facebook, my fan page, myspace, twitter, etc. I have also made up posters to hang around, and created events postings in facebook and invited friends and fans on facebook.

[BlueStrat]

 

There's a harsh reality to this question and it's not discussed much. But to think about what sort of "audience" you can "draw," in your home town, you'd make a list that looks something like this: 1. Immediate family 2. Extended family 3. Close friends 4. Casual and/or work friends 5. Strangers who enjoy your show and/or music (aka actual "fans") You can schedule a show and populate it with 1-4, and this happens a lot. All the time. And if this group is big enough, you can book a decent venue. But what you really need to have a consistent "draw" is a big #5 group. And in order to get a big #5 group, you need to put on a "show" where people can dance and/or drink. Before I get flamed, yes, there ARE exceptions. A singer/songwriter can get big enough in his home town to book a show and have 100 people show up. It can happen. It almost never does, meaning the percentage is very low, but it can. But unless you happen to live someplace where there's a very hip cool music scene, if you're not playing music that people can dance to, getting the #5's out to see you consistently will be crazy difficult. Because the harsh reality (the phrase from my intro sentence) is that MOST people don't really want to go out and have a nice sit down and listen to some music. This ain't the 60's. We're not competing with two radio stations and three tv stations. Entertainment is far more exciting now, and the only people who want to go somewhere and actually LISTEN to music are musicians. Everyone else who goes out specifically to hear music wants to dance to it, drink to it, or hit on the opposite sex at it. So this idea of promoting your show... if you're doing music that people can dance to, then promotion might help you. Promotion will always help with 1-4. And if you make it sound cool and fun enough, the #5's might show. Regarding the venue. The places who expect musicians to bring their friends to drink at the venue bar... in many cases, those places don't last too long. It's the same deal with coffee shops. If the venue can't attract a regular crowd, having musicians bring their 1-4's in is not a great business plan. You can drive a truck through some of what I'm saying, because there are always exceptions. I'm just speaking generally. But I think as a performer you really need to know what it is you do. If people can dance to your music, you're going to have an easier time making money and getting people to come and see you. If people can't dance to you, then you probably need to look into being the background music... upscale wine bars, restaurants, venues like that. If you are great and in a genre that people like, then there may be festival and other similar opportunities. It's all about knowing what you do and being realistic about it. If you're a sullen moody singer/songwriter, it's going to be very difficult to attract the #5's.

 

 

 

I think you're generally dead on. The biggest problem I see is that if any venue relies on a band or musician's following to fill his club, that musician or band better not be playing more that once every 4 to 6 weeks in most towns. The average city in America is what, 150-200k? Where I live, it's more like 40 k. That means if I play 3 weekends a month, NO ONE is going to come out to see us 3 out of 4 weeks every month, no matter what number group they're in. They just aren't. Which is why the venue owner needs to cultivate his own clientele.

[daddymack]

 

Which is why the venue owner needs to cultivate his own clientele.

 

 

Good point! This is why so many places fail in a rough economy...because the people who start businesses are not necessarily 'business people'. There has to be more about a venue than just the entertainment. The ambiance, food, service, prices, drinks...all add up to drawing a clientele. I have heard this complaint from bar owners for years..and the counter-argument is 'what do you have that people want when there isn't any music?'

Unless the venue is a real 'night club', the music is really ancillary. That puts the onus of drawing in patrons on the factors mentioned above. Which places the responsibility squarely on the shoulders of the owner, not the hired gun. Which is not to say that the entertainer has zero responsibility for bringing in paying customers...but they should not be held culpable for an empty room if the food, drinks, service, decor, prices etc. are crap.

[Gary Blanchard]

I ran into this recently when I was asked last minute (well, two weeks, but still...) to fill in at a place I have not performed at before. It is a "music lounge" that offers music 7 nights a week. The night started at 9:00; many of my people are getting ready for bed then. I posted on Facebook, sent an email, posted a few fliers, etc. No one showed for the gig. It seems that the place does not have a built-in clientele and they depend upon performers to bring their crowd. Odd business model.

[cephus]

I am fortunate enough to play a few places that have "regulars". The crowd comes out on Wednesday or Friday because they always know there is going to be music. If the guy sucks, they might not stick around. However, I do see that this business model doesn't necessarily have legs. People die and there goes your crowd. No kidding. One bar I have been playing for 2 1/2 years has had 3 regulars die in that time period, an unfortunately, it was alcohol related.

 

I find myself re-evaluating who exactly it is that I want to come out. I feel pretty weird begging co-workers to come out to sit and watch me play music, so I don't do that anymore. I have a rotation of friends that still go bar hopping that I can count on to make the trek. But, if they all come to one gig, I get one great night and a lousy rest of the month. If they are looking for a place to land, i don't mind telling them where I am playing. But I sure hate having to apply any pressure at all for them to come fill a chair. "Come help me defraud this bar owner by creating the illusion I have a following."

 

Ideally, I prefer to play for strangers. I think they get the best show. Maybe I can let it fly around them and am more reserved playing for people that I'll see at work or church. All things considered, if I want to play for strangers and rely on foot traffic and regulars, I need to get used to not making any money. Which is silly. I don't make enough money playing music to put gas in my car to get to my day job. I can afford to not give a darn about money. For some reason, it just feels wrong.

[BlueStrat]

Here's what I see where I live:

 

Successsful bars:

 

1) have a nice, clean business.

2) Prices are great.

3) Service is fast and friendly

3) Great a selection of drinks and microbrews

4) Food, if served, is good to great

5) the have events going on all week- brewfests, wine or beer tastings, distributorship schwag giveaways, sports parties, participate in ArtWalks and/or Music Walks, become part of community events, etc etc.

6) owner or general manager makes it part of his job to spend a few hours every day meeting, greeting and getting to know his clientele when they are there, usually late afternoon-early evening.

7) Spend a few bucks to advertise beyond a few posters in the club and some one-line notices in the entertainment calendar of the local paper.

8) Hire consistently good to great entertainment.

 

Failing bars:

 

1) Have a filthy or run-down facility.

2) Overcharge for drinks.

3) Poor service, sometimes friendly, sometimes not.

4) Nothing going on during the week.

5) Don't participate in any local events and creates no activities.

6) Thinks frozen pizza and microwave burritos is "having a kitchen".

7) Owner is only there during the day time to open up, do the books and order but spends no time with customers to cultivate a relationship. Sometimes he's rarely there at all.

8) Does nothing to promote their club but hires low priced bands expecting they will bring in the customers.

[daddymack]

"same as it ever was..."

[richardmac]

 

Here's what I see where I live: Successsful bars: 1) have a nice, clean business. 2) Prices are great. 3) Service is fast and friendly 3) Great a selection of drinks and microbrews 4) Food, if served, is good to great 5) the have events going on all week- brewfests, wine or beer tastings, distributorship schwag giveaways, sports parties, participate in ArtWalks and/or Music Walks, become part of community events, etc etc. 6) owner or general manager makes it part of his job to spend a few hours every day meeting, greeting and getting to know his clientele when they are there, usually late afternoon-early evening. 7) Spend a few bucks to advertise beyond a few posters in the club and some one-line notices in the entertainment calendar of the local paper. 8) Hire consistently good to great entertainment. Failing bars: 1) Have a filthy or run-down facility. 2) Overcharge for drinks. 3) Poor service, sometimes friendly, sometimes not. 4) Nothing going on during the week. 5) Don't participate in any local events and creates no activities. 6) Thinks frozen pizza and microwave burritos is "having a kitchen". 7) Owner is only there during the day time to open up, do the books and order but spends no time with customers to cultivate a relationship. Sometimes he's rarely there at all. 8) Does nothing to promote their club but hires low priced bands expecting they will bring in the customers.

 

 

This post ought to be required reading for anyone who wants to open a bar. This is spot on.

[jmullen45]

All great points, especially the above outline on how to keep a bar in business...alas, this is the great debate, is it up to the bar to bring people in or the musician? I agree with many who have previously stated it's a mutual responsibility. Problem is, I do feel a majority of the obligation falls on me as they hired me for the evening in order to drive business. That being said, I do question the owners/managers who do nothing to promote, especially when I have an out of town gig. I send flyers and emails and post on Facebook but it

[daddymack]

Sorry, no, the music, again, should not be the key to filling the room.

Entertainment shouldn't be the lynchpin of a room's success or failure...a factor, yes, but not the sole reason.

Think about road bands...they can't be expected to fill the rooms...the venue needs to have patrons who come expecting quality entertainment. Our job is to provide that entertainment.

 

Someone posted a link to an article by a local (LA) musican over in MusBiz today... http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?2880241-quot-Why-Music-Venues-are-Totally-Lost-quot#

 

this pretty much echoes wha tboth Blue Strat (and I) said in here...

[lewie]

 

This post ought to be required reading for anyone who wants to open a bar. This is spot on.

 

 

I wholeheartedly agree. Even while reading it I was mentally grouping the bars I play into each category. Scary stuff!

[MartinC]

Some good insights in this thread. As far as road bands, there used to be circuits for cover bands playing on the road, but I'm not sure that exists anymore. To go on the road, if your not already pretty popular, your going to be making little-I don't see how you can promote. Isn't it hard enough to show up and play well enough to get people excited about your group and tell others, come back, Etc?

 

I think facebook and twitter are great tools that should be taken advantage of by musicians because they take so little time and effort but I reject the notion that a local band should be responsible for bringing the crowd.

To get good, you need to perform a lot, and no one can attract a large crowd of numbers 1-4 to frequent gigs.

Bands need to find places to play that have enough of a crowd to at least pay something, and concentrate on making that crowd their fans IMO. If that snowballs, then you have a draw and more options.

Short of that, I don't see much of a future for a group that is looking to 1-4's to sustain them.

I still think the way is to be great, and put yourself out there. If what your doing is working, then the gigs , the crowd, and the money should come if your also working it like any other business. If not, then maybe you'd need to relocate.

[daddymack]

Relocation is a lost cause...that puts you back to square one. The only solid way is the tried and true, the ever expanding circuit of clubs over a large area.

We (my band) did this well in the LA area for years, until the economy tanked. I've gigged in five counties (LA, Riverside, Orange, San Bernadino, Ventura...counties here are about the size of Rhode Island ) and were looking to expand into more (San Diego and Kern). This is one of the most competitive markets in the US, though, and in the current economic climate, we aren't making any headway lately...mainly because we won't work cheap, won't split bills and don't like to do dives.