Members doezer Posted June 3, 2012 Members Share Posted June 3, 2012 but only sometimes!!! god damn.. the biggest problem with this whole gigging thing is consistency of sound IMO. some evenings i play agig and the acoustic lead over the backing tracks sounds just great.. and other nights it just doesnt carry, it doesnt have any sustain in the leadnotes. they die out and it all sounds rather empty. just did a gig tonight and i was damned if the leads were working so i just stopped em.. only change was i think i have changed the strings. thats supposed to help the tone right?! in fact im not sure if it was down to the strings at all. there are so many parameters to sound. oh yes one other thing it was a new venue, but im not sure it was that either.. the guitar sounded kind of "empty" no matter how much verb i put on it. it was clear, which i like, cutting thru nicely, but the notes were just dying very quickly. any thoughts welcome?? are certain types of string better for acoustic lead than others. i have phosphor bronze ones.. 11's. but i always use 11's so it cant be that,... ho hummm....! i need a roadie and sound tech. but the budget just wont stretch im afraid!!! cheersd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted June 3, 2012 Members Share Posted June 3, 2012 but only sometimes!!!god damn.. the biggest problem with this whole gigging thing is consistency of sound IMO.some evenings i play agig and the acoustic lead over the backing tracks sounds just great.. and other nights it just doesnt carry, it doesnt have any sustain in the leadnotes. they die out and it all sounds rather empty.just did a gig tonight and i was damned if the leads were working so i just stopped em..only change was i think i have changed the strings. thats supposed to help the tone right?! in fact im not sure if it was down to the strings at all. there are so many parameters to sound. oh yes one other thing it was a new venue, but im not sure it was that either.. the guitar sounded kind of "empty" no matter how much verb i put on it. it was clear, which i like, cutting thru nicely, but the notes were just dying very quickly.any thoughts welcome?? are certain types of string better for acoustic lead than others. i have phosphor bronze ones.. 11's. but i always use 11's so it cant be that,...ho hummm....! i need a roadie and sound tech. but the budget just wont stretch im afraid!!! cheersdmaybe its the room. Do you vary you guitar's reverb/delay depending on the liveliness of the room? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bob Dey Posted June 3, 2012 Members Share Posted June 3, 2012 OK, you changed your strings which normally will improve tone and somewhat sustain. Did you use a different brand? It's a little hard to understand by your description exactly what's happening. Sounding empty and lack of sustain are two different things. And it sounds like the problem occurs while playing lead with backing tracks. does the sound improve when playing chords, or playing without backing tracks? Lack of sustain may be from not pressing the string down hard enough, but it sounds like you're just not use to the acoustics of this new room. Is the sound getting soaked up, or is there too much echo/reverb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Potts Posted June 3, 2012 Members Share Posted June 3, 2012 I think if you're going to criticize your sound, you better have something worth criticizing. Lead players spend $1000 or more on a guitar, spend another $2000 on a head and another $500 on a cabinet. Toss in another $500 in effects and you have a sound that's in the neighborhood of $4000-5000 for a dude in a cover band. Yet "we" (acoustic players) think we can get a great acoustic sound with throwing a low end guitar through a monitor and a boss chorus. That's the best analogy I can give you. Think about it. If you're an acoustic player and your cranking out gigs you need to make sure that your loving life with gear that you love to play with. It's no secret that I do a ton of gigs. I play a lot of acoustic with chunky bottom end, mellow finger picking stuff, backing tracks and a great deal of fun acoustic 2 note solo stuff. You've got to dial it in and keep it as simple as possible so it can be reproduced every night. I've realized, across a bunch of guitars, that my "rig" is simple and it sounds friggin great live. Most of my tone comes from the way I set up my preamp on my guitar and a Boss EQ-7 that adds everything for me. I'd like to know what your gear is like... guitar, PA, effects or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members leftyjay Posted June 3, 2012 Members Share Posted June 3, 2012 a compressor/limiter pedal does wonders for sustain. most multi-effects pedals have them to help thicken and add sustain. as long as you dont over-do it, it can even make an acoustic ring out. then again, a high end replacement saddle and end pins will add more sustain to an acoustic as well. humidity effects sustain too. if the air is thick, it deadens sustain like a wet towel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members doezer Posted June 3, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 3, 2012 hi all and thanks... its definitely a sustain issue. i will go back to try the old brand of string i had before changing and see if thats it.. i would be surprised if it is because the new strings sound fine when playing and picking at home.. the setup? guitar , di box, 01v96 yamaha mixer with effects onbvoard. i use verb and delay (very low delay value , like a slapback, and very subtle just to fill it out... normally works but didnt this time, and some other times (this isnt a one off it happen say one night in 5 or something??)... the gutar, pickup and PA are all average, not great but not bad, but the important thing here is not the quality, but the consistency.. they normally sound fine... so thats all i am after here is consistency!!!! i have used a compressor before to sort sustain out.. and it works bu brings its own issues too .. less dynamics, feedback issues if you raise it too much. ive been getting away without for a long time now so am hoping i dont need to go back... the quest continues, i will post if i get there. thanks again to all some good stuff there to think about..thnaksd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members doezer Posted June 3, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 3, 2012 humidity effects sustain too. if the air is thick, it deadens sustain like a wet towel. oh! right now thats interesting.. the bar last nite was really hot and humid - an absolute sweat-fest!!!!maybe that had an effect on the sound. i would be surprised if it had that big an effect but maybe it was.intersting indeed.. ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OldGuitarPlayer Posted June 3, 2012 Members Share Posted June 3, 2012 Put on a set of .013-.056 gauge 80/20 bronze. Failing that, have you tried messing with the EQ? I am not sure if this would help but it's all I got... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fingerpicker Posted June 3, 2012 Members Share Posted June 3, 2012 Increase your mids on the guitar while playing leads. I do it "on the fly" after setting up a loop. Also the use of compression is a great idea. I use a multi-effects pedal and have a few patches dedicated to lead playing and all of them have the compressor on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Telecruiser Posted June 3, 2012 Members Share Posted June 3, 2012 You get sustain in your playing the same way you get to Carnegie Hall; practice, practice, practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Potts Posted June 3, 2012 Members Share Posted June 3, 2012 Put on a set of .013-.056 gauge 80/20 bronze. Failing that, have you tried messing with the EQ? I am not sure if this would help but it's all I got... Im such a wimp- I wont make the jump to 13's even though I know it would be awesome. As far as the mids go? Sound and players are so funny. I originally posted a long winded reply on how I cut as much mids as I can to get the sustain I get...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted June 3, 2012 Members Share Posted June 3, 2012 Increase your mids on the guitar while playing leads. I do it "on the fly" after setting up a loop. Also the use of compression is a great idea. I use a multi-effects pedal and have a few patches dedicated to lead playing and all of them have the compressor on.I do that very thing(boost the mid slider) when my acoustic leads have to compete with other things in the mix. Works great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Potts Posted June 3, 2012 Members Share Posted June 3, 2012 I'm telling anyone that wants to listen. If you can find a Boss EQ7 for a reasonable price just get it. There is nothing better for playing leads live on an acoustic. Not only can you easily get the tones you want and need, you get the added volume boost as well. I attached a video with that has a few leads in it. You'll notice that I'm fiddling around quite a bit at the beginning but it was my first tune so I didn't have anything dialed in yet. The solos cut through nicely- even on this crappy low resolution vid. [video=youtube;Sk6zKUZS7J0] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members doezer Posted June 4, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 4, 2012 You get sustain in your playing the same way you get to Carnegie Hall; practice, practice, practice. hi all and thanks again... that true of course telecruise.. but this is differnet, on a good nite i get a really nice acoustic lead tone which im quite happy with. then the odd nite for some unknown reason i dont.. its definitely an equipment settings, guitar strings, differnet venues , technical kind of issue this one... @ potts. boss eq7 . yes great pedal i will try it. i have one just dont use it.. will did it up and resurrect it and let you know how i go... thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted June 4, 2012 Members Share Posted June 4, 2012 I like the Dano Fish/Chips better. Same features but a lot quieter. That said, I never had the need for one with acoustic. Sweepable mids on the strip work fine for the core tone and my acoustics have onboard EQ and volume for soloing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Potts Posted June 4, 2012 Members Share Posted June 4, 2012 You're correct..the Boss EQ is a little bit noisy. I guess there's a pretty cool and inexpensive "mod" for it. I'm too lazy though. I've never heard of the Dan EQ you were talking about until I looked it up. How durable is it? At $29 I can't imagine it's well built- it almost looks like plastic (I'm sure it isnt though). Thanks for the info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fingerpicker Posted June 4, 2012 Members Share Posted June 4, 2012 I like the Dano Fish/Chips better I do too! Have had the same pedal for maybe 5 years or so. I dont need it in my acoustic guitat set-up right now but do use it for other things. It's a great deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members deanmass Posted June 4, 2012 Members Share Posted June 4, 2012 The dano pedals feel cheap, and re, but they hold up pretty well. They are cheap enough to buy two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted June 5, 2012 Members Share Posted June 5, 2012 I do too! Have had the same pedal for maybe 5 years or so. I dont need it in my acoustic guitat set-up right now but do use it for other things. It's a great deal.Mine has done 100+ gigs a year for 5-6 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Potts Posted June 5, 2012 Members Share Posted June 5, 2012 Mine has done 100+ gigs a year for 5-6 years. Seriously?? I need a decent delay and simply have no desire to spend $100 or more. Would you recommend one of these by Dano? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John Ellis Posted June 5, 2012 Members Share Posted June 5, 2012 13's and a stiffer pick is the cheapest and likely best solution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fingerpicker Posted June 5, 2012 Members Share Posted June 5, 2012 Yeah except 5 gigs a week with .13's for most people who bend alot = sore fingers and tears where the skin meet the nail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted June 5, 2012 Members Share Posted June 5, 2012 Seriously?? I need a decent delay and simply have no desire to spend $100 or more. Would you recommend one of these by Dano?well, actually, the PB/Jelly mini Dano and Pepperoni Phaser have been on the pedalboard for that same amount of time. The Delay is very decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiroVette Posted June 5, 2012 Members Share Posted June 5, 2012 Honestly, doezer, I would have to hear some of your stuff before I could venture an opinion about your tone overall. I play mostly in an electric band. I play the Jerry Garcia parts in a Dead cover band, but I also have an acoustic duo. Here is a rule of thumb that I have found: Much of the issues people often have with their acoustic tone ends up being their technique. Honestly? This isn't true 100% of the time, but if you are a good lead player and you can improvise and really play the crap out of an electric or an acoustic guitar, I think you stand a much better chance of being happier with your acoustic lead sound than any change in equipment. I can really play lead so what happens is that as long as I am playing even a mediocre guitar through a mediocre amp with no effects, or hell, even direct right into my PA, I am simply confident it will sound good and I am rarely disappointed in that regard. That is why I would like to hear some of your stuff. Maybe you are picking too hard while playing leads and this is making your sound very strained. A lot of more novice lead players do this. They pick and/or fret too hard, and this gives their playing a very stilted sound. Now I am not saying this is all absolute! You may be a fine player and just really are finicky about your sound, but I have found that to get decent sustain on a mediocre acoustic guitar through a mediocre amp, even with little or no effects, that picking lighter and using some vibrato techniques when you are playing less notes will help in this regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members doezer Posted June 5, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 5, 2012 Honestly, doezer, I would have to hear some of your stuff before I could venture an opinion about your tone overall. I play mostly in an electric band. I play the Jerry Garcia parts in a Dead cover band, but I also have an acoustic duo. Here is a rule of thumb that I have found: Much of the issues people often have with their acoustic tone ends up being their technique. Honestly? This isn't true 100% of the time, but if you are a good lead player and you can improvise and really play the crap out of an electric or an acoustic guitar, I think you stand a much better chance of being happier with your acoustic lead sound than any change in equipment. I can really play lead so what happens is that as long as I am playing even a mediocre guitar through a mediocre amp with no effects, or hell, even direct right into my PA, I am simply confident it will sound good and I am rarely disappointed in that regard. That is why I would like to hear some of your stuff. Maybe you are picking too hard while playing leads and this is making your sound very strained. A lot of more novice lead players do this. They pick and/or fret too hard, and this gives their playing a very stilted sound. Now I am not saying this is all absolute! You may be a fine player and just really are finicky about your sound, but I have found that to get decent sustain on a mediocre acoustic guitar through a mediocre amp, even with little or no effects, that picking lighter and using some vibrato techniques when you are playing less notes will help in this regard. hi and thanks. i honestly dont think its technique cos i get a good lead sound most of the time which im pretty happy with. so im trying to firgure out whats different.ive narrowed it down to either different strings and/or the different venues/rooms i play in. but im not sure which yet,. dont get me wrong!! im sure my technique could be improved upon... its just i am 100% sure its not the reason this inconsistency is happening.cos if it was technique, then it would be bugging me all the time.. but its not! ok. heres a good description of the problem which hopefully will explain..on a good night, say if im doing a slide up on the second string from the third to fifth fret with some vibrato, so i can get that real nice acoustic shimmery sound you get when playing acoustic lead.well. on a good night, it sings thru and i can hear it and it soudns damn nice IMO..... and on a bad nite, the note just dies, and that makes it sound kinda lame. same player, same PA, same guitar!!! huh??? so it must be new strings and / or different venues IMO. oh and to answer one of your questions, yes i would have to admit i am definitely picky on sound. very!! to me the sound of your guitar is hugely important when playing,.if its soudniing right, you can play teh simplest of licks and they work. if its not then players tend to try complicate things in order to compensate. and i dont wanna do that! thanksd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.