RANT TIME! General rant, feel free to participate!

[RoboPimp]

Last night...

 

Pulled a mic channel end on my snake (channel 3) apart somehow. good thing it's a 16 channel snake and I only use 11 sends, quick switch over to channel 16 and back in action.

 

Pulled a speakon end of one of my wires when I was breaking down. No big deal but how DO you guys solder those, I was looking at it and couldn't figure out an easy way to do it. Yeah, I'm slow sometimes...

 

Finally, the end of the night. My snake "box" got dropped by one of the "helpful" bandmembers. (The box with all the XLR inputs) Broke it apart somehow. The whole fucking box fell apart. DISCLAIMER: It was a cheap snake. 100 ft. 16/4 for $160 off ebay. All I can say is ANOTHER cheap purchase to bite me in the ass. DON'T DO IT PEOPLE! Don't be cheap like me then be forced to look like a dumbass in front of your customers.

 

it can be fixed pretty easily but the guy felt so bad and even though it was his fault I couldn't even blame him because it was so pathetic how it just fell apart.

 

final rant:

 

The lead singer of this band is a great singer. Incredible. Not bad to look at either. BUT she always has some stupid coment. Last night it really got to me because it was somewhat related to my payment. "Man, I wish I was the soundman! You get all the money, we get like 30 bucks" In my head I'm laughing at the thought of this 98 pound stick trying to lift one 18" sub on top of another. I joked it off at the time but those little comments come back to haunt me... maybe it's just my paranoid insanity.

 

end with a question related to final rant:

 

Should I actually feel guilty if a band is only making $30 a piece and I get $120?

 

 

in closing, feel free to comment on my situation or add your own rants. Sometimes a little venting can make you feel a lot better!

[where02190]

You can get speakons that are not solder, but use allen screws to lock in the cabling, they are quite simple to assemble and more common than the solder type, which require a fairly high heat gun to assemble.

 

feel sorry for them, IMHO you're being underpaid, and should be making 2x that, even if it means the band makes nothing. You provide a service, just like a mechanic or a plumber. The artist has the potential to make millions. IMHO you should be getting that $30 they are maaking as well.

 

Next time the female singer bitches, tell her next gig to show up several hours early to load in an set up, and then see if she wants your job. Or remind her that while she sang for a couple hours you been at that particular jobsite for 8-10 hours, and when the gig is over she can take whatever tom, dick or harry home while you get to stay for several more hours to disassemble the show that got tom dick and harrys attention locked on her.

[RoboPimp]

Well, obviously if I took all the money they wouldn't play (not sure what drives them now) Have to let them have SOME of the money.

 

the speakons I have are the NL4 or something like that. they have I think these little tiny phillips head screws? Is there a way to add solder to this type?

[agedhorse]

No do not solder the NL-4's.

 

Pulling an end off of one cable raises suspicion of careless and abusive handling. 2 different cables really makes me wonder. Broken apart stage box pretty much confirms it.

 

Either you have bought the most poorly designed and assembles eqiuipment possible, or you are not using any care with your gear. I don't think I have ever seen an NL-4 that was correct;y installed being pulled off the end of a cable even with rough use.

 

Wow...

[where02190]

 

Well, obviously if I took all the money they wouldn't play

 

 

then you live in a fortunate area where musicians actually get paid rather than have to pay to play, as is the case here in Boston. It's very common for me to be paid out of pocket for live shows from the artists here, since they make nothing, and often have to purchase tickets from the venue (for resale on their own) in order to play there.

 

 

I don't think I have ever seen an NL-4 that was correct;y installed being pulled off the end of a cable even with rough use.

 

 

True, the connector breaks before it comes apart.

[tlbonehead]

Originally posted by agedhorse No do not solder the NL-4's. Pulling an end off of one cable raises suspicion of careless and abusive handling. 2 different cables really makes me wonder. Broken apart stage box pretty much confirms it. Either you have bought the most poorly designed and assembles eqiuipment possible, or you are not using any care with your gear. I don't think I have ever seen an NL-4 that was correct;y installed being pulled off the end of a cable even with rough use. Wow...

That's what I'm thinking. I've always put my own Speakons on my cables(phillips style) and I've never pulled one apart. Same with XLR's. I've bought a lot of MF bargain mic cables and have never pulled them apart either. As for the singer's comment,it isn't your fault. You are working very cheap but they aren't making anything either. I certainly wouldn't gig for $30 but I probably wouldn't do sound for $120 either. It must not be a very high paying gig.

[Guest Anonymous]

Originally posted by RoboPimp Well, obviously if I took all the money they wouldn't play (not sure what drives them now) Have to let them have SOME of the money.

Why? When you bought the gas to drive the gear to the job did the gas station attendant cut you a break because your client isn't getting paid much? How about your insurance agent? How about your landlord? How about the equipment manufactures? How about the taxman? I'm wondering if the lead singer's rational works with her landlord, grocery store, utility company, etc...?

[smitty0069]

Being on both sides of the fence I used to have her mentality.It always used to piss me off to give a full cut or more to production when I was playing.

So I started buying equipment to get away from having to pay or depend on anyone else.The more I bought & did to get away from an outside production source the more I realized how much was involved not only from the $$ aspect,but to the amount of work it is.....not just in that one particular night either,but the maintaining of the gear,the trailor(or whatever your transport system is)the loading&unloading,the advancing new venues,etc. It's alot of work that is easily overlooked.

I've gotten to the point where I really don't want the "extra hands helping" ya know as I believe some of my maintanence issues are a result of the "helping hands".

I also really like knowing where all my stuff is at the end of a night so the next gig is not me searching for {censored} that's not where it should be.

Let them fend for themselves sometime or get someone else to do it & if they are bringing any kind of decent service for them it will probably cost them even more.

Obviously you can only do & get what your market allows,but I would take no less than you feel is necessary to pay for your time & % of the value of the gear needed for the gig.You'll be very surprised at how little you are making.

[RoboPimp]

Originally posted by agedhorse No do not solder the NL-4's. Pulling an end off of one cable raises suspicion of careless and abusive handling. 2 different cables really makes me wonder. Broken apart stage box pretty much confirms it. Either you have bought the most poorly designed and assembles eqiuipment possible, or you are not using any care with your gear. I don't think I have ever seen an NL-4 that was correct;y installed being pulled off the end of a cable even with rough use. Wow...

 

this is all true, cheap gear and rough treatment were both involved last night. Not saying ALL of my "rant" is directed towards other people... a lot of it is towards myself for buying cheap gear and not treating it very well.

[flip333]

I must demonstrate the value of my PA system.

 

NEXT GIG: powered mixer, two mains on sticks, two monitors, 3 mics for vocals only.

 

Re-evaluate compensation.

[Audioeast]

Originally posted by RoboPimp Last night... Pulled a mic channel end on my snake (channel 3) apart somehow. good thing it's a 16 channel snake and I only use 11 sends, quick switch over to channel 16 and back in action. Pulled a speakon end of one of my wires when I was breaking down. No big deal but how DO you guys solder those, I was looking at it and couldn't figure out an easy way to do it. Yeah, I'm slow sometimes... Finally, the end of the night. My snake "box" got dropped by one of the "helpful" bandmembers. (The box with all the XLR inputs) Broke it apart somehow. The whole fucking box fell apart. DISCLAIMER: It was a cheap snake. 100 ft. 16/4 for $160 off ebay. All I can say is ANOTHER cheap purchase to bite me in the ass. DON'T DO IT PEOPLE! Don't be cheap like me then be forced to look like a dumbass in front of your customers. it can be fixed pretty easily but the guy felt so bad and even though it was his fault I couldn't even blame him because it was so pathetic how it just fell apart. final rant: The lead singer of this band is a great singer. Incredible. Not bad to look at either. BUT she always has some stupid coment. Last night it really got to me because it was somewhat related to my payment. "Man, I wish I was the soundman! You get all the money, we get like 30 bucks" In my head I'm laughing at the thought of this 98 pound stick trying to lift one 18" sub on top of another. I joked it off at the time but those little comments come back to haunt me... maybe it's just my paranoid insanity. end with a question related to final rant: Should I actually feel guilty if a band is only making $30 a piece and I get $120? in closing, feel free to comment on my situation or add your own rants. Sometimes a little venting can make you feel a lot better!

 

Dont solder SPeakons....it makes them unfixable in my opinion, just tin the leads and tighten em down.....IMO

 

As far as feeling bad, NO......its not your fault they dont have the biz savy or talent to demand more cake! And your whoaring yourself out for $120 a night covering the labor, tech, trucking/gas, liability, and best of all YOU get to clean the cables and monitors from the bar swill...that your bitchy client most likly adds to!!

 

Honestly ...id barely go do a walk in for a 45m set for $120 never mind bring anything with me!

[Scodiddly]

"I'd be happy to cut you in on my $120 - can you show up at 5pm to help unload the van? Bring gloves and a back brace!"

[Guest Anonymous]

 

Originally posted by Audioeast Dont solder SPeakons....it makes them unfixable in my opinion, just tin the leads and tighten em down.....IMO

 

Here's my understanding of the situation.

 

Speakon cord ends such as the NL2FC, NL4FC, NL4FX, and NL8FC, are all set-screw termination devices. The termination is a mechanical type connection, therefore tinning the conductor is a no-no. Because: Solder, composed of lead and tin, is a fairly lousy conductor. Solder flows when it's heated to a molten state. Considerable heat can (most likely will) be generated at the point where the set-screw of the termination mates with the tinned copper in speaker cables. The heat generated at the contact point will propagate some solder flow. At the least, you'll end-up with a cold solder joint situation, which will lead to loose set screws, which can lead to arcing. Admittedly, the set-screws can be tightened, but the arcing will produce porosity in the solder and copper (pulling nitrogen and other stuff into the parent metals). The resulting metal nitrates and oxides are really lousy conductors.

 

Therefore: As I understand it, a best management practice is:

 

1) Apply solder only to solder joints that are soldered together.

2) Mechanical connections should be set-screws (or crimp as the case may be) into bright metal (no tinning).

 

Yea... I know. There's countless examples of tinned wires into mechanical terminations that haven't given a lick of a problem for years (decades). I've also seen tinned copper termination Speakon and banana post connectors that looked like they were hit by lightening due to arcing at the termination point. I don't think with lower power connections it makes much difference but on higher powered stuff, I think it's worth doing it "right".

 

And yea, I know: It's much easier to get all the filaments of the conductors into the termination holes with the conductor tinned, especially on NL2FC and NL4FX cordends (and banana plugs). If anybody's interested, I could share some of my tricks of the trade to getting all the filaments in the holes?

 

If you're dead-set on soldering Speakon cordends, then I suggest using the NLT Speakon versions, which are solder termination cordends.

[MrKnobs]

Here's a little true story about the soundman making more than the band. Not sure if I've told it before, forgive me if I have. Getting hard to keep track of these things.

 

The gig was a large wedding reception in Navasota, TX. Small town between Bryan and Houston. I was working for a very popular country cover band who did everything from modern country to country standards to Top 40 rock and rap. They worked a lot, and got paid very well.

 

Food comes before the dance portion of a reception, so I found myself sitting backstage with the two guitar players eating a plate of some decent Texas barbecue. The two bandleaders, who played keys and drums, had left to shower and change clothes, since they lived nearby.

 

As it happened, the guitarists weren't in a friendly mood that day. Finally one of them broke the tense silence and let me know what was up.

 

"So how much are you making for this gig?"

 

A rude question, but my philosophy is that a rude question usually deserves a rude answer.

 

"Two hundred and change." (keep in mind this was the 80's and I didn't have to load in or load out, or bring any gear).

 

Now they were really pissed off. Scott said, "F*ck you! That's a lot more than we make and we have to rehearse!" Rob, the other guitarist looked more interested than angry.

 

I replied, "Boys, I'm surprised to hear that. Tim told me you guys are getting $2500 for this wedding."

 

At that, both guys' eyebrows went up and Scott dropped his fork in his plate, his face twisting up in surprise and rage. He remained silent for the rest of the conversation.

 

Rob said, "We're getting $100 each. That fucking sucks! Are you sure Tim's getting $2500 for this?"

 

I had clearly stepped in it by revealing what the gig paid; I could imagine myself being fired for having let that cat out of the bag. I tried to so some damage control.

 

"Guys, look. Maybe I heard him wrong, but even if I didn't, don't get mad, get ahead. Negotiate with the bosses, you're worth more than $100/show and you've been with them for a while. They'll give you guys a raise, but you'll have to ask for it. That's how it works. Just chill, play the gig, keep the info to yourself, and use the knowledge later to get a better deal."

 

Rob got his trademark crooked smile on his face, and calmed down a bit; he went back to working on the brisket. I could see his devious mind working on something. Scott, however, was still not speaking (or eating) and I could see he was no longer even listening. After a few more minutes, he quietely got up from the table, and we watched him put his guitar in the case and unplug the cables from his amp.

 

"Say, " I ventured to Rob, "You don't suppose Scott's going to bail on the gig, do you?"

 

Rob said, "Nah, he's a pussy. He's just throwing a fit."

 

We continued to watch as Scott packed all his gear into his pickup and drove away. Shit, I was in some trouble now.

 

About 15 minutes before showtime the two band owners returned. They immediately noticed that Scott and his gear were missing. Since Rob was his buddy, they found him and asked him where the f*ck Scott was. Rob shrugged and replied, "He's throwing a fit about something, packed his shit and went home. We don't really need him anyway, I'd say. Can we split his share between the rest of us?"

 

I felt terrible, and I had to 'fess up. I told our bosses that I'd f*cked up and let the guys in on how much the gig paid, and that had caused Scott to get angry and leave. Rob smiled his crooked smile as he waited to see the fallout from this turn of events. I guess he expected the boss men to deny the gig price. On my part, I expected to be yelled at and fired, if not receive a summary beating.

 

Neither happened. The boss men just got their faraway, expressionless cold look I'd seen before and immediately lost interest in further discussion with Rob and me. They called the singer over, a big tall rodeo star named Ronnie Joe and told him to "Get Scott's little ass back here ASAP." Ronnie Joe smiled his big, missing toothed grin (also courtesy of the rodeo) and picked up a phone. I heard him say the following.

 

"Scott, you got two choices brother. Stay where you're at and we'll come over and beat your ass after the show, or get your scrawny, worthless ass back and play the gig right now. If you come back, we might not hurt you too bad afterwards." And then he hung up, still smiling. As Ronnie Joe often said (showing his missing teeth) he liked to fight and "most stuff will heal."

 

I was left alone with Rob. We looked sheepishly at each other and I said, "No way Scott's coming back. If Ronnie had said that to me, I'd be waiting at my house with a twelve gauge." Rob disagreed. "No man, he'll be back. Like I said, he's a pussy."

 

To my great surprise, Scott showed up in the middle of the second song, plugged in and played the whole gig. Not a word was said to him during or afterwards, so far as I know. For sure he didn't receive a beating, though Ronnie Joe looked menacingly at him a few times during the show.

 

I saw him backstage after it was over, and he mysteriously said to me, "This ain't over. They'll be sorry."

 

It wasn't over. But that's another story.

 

Terry D.

[Scodiddly]

 

Originally posted by Audiopile And yea, I know: It's much easier to get all the filaments of the conductors into the termination holes with the conductor tinned, especially on NL2FC and NL4FX cordends (and banana plugs). If anybody's interested, I could share some of my tricks of the trade to getting all the filaments in the holes?

 

 

I'd be interested in learning a new trick or two. I've been dealing with 12ga into Speakons a lot recently.

[JohnnyGraphic]

 

Originally posted by Scodiddly I'd be interested in learning a new trick or two. I've been dealing with 12ga into Speakons a lot recently.

 

 

Yes-I'm in!

[BlackBelt]

My pat answer for 'being paid too much' from bands that I rent to:

"Okay, you guys call around and find out what somebody that DOESN'T like you and consider you guys friends (whether they are or not-it's a marketing technique) is going to charge you. Keep my number handy."

I always get called back.

With my band, we give the PA an equal cut with the 4 band members, and I get that as well as my cut. Of course the PA cut and my cut, they are both spent well before the gig because I'm constantly upgrading the system, but that's my choice. I know that the reason that I can stay booked 5 nights a week if I want to is because those upgrades sound awesome. So it's worth it.

Plus, it's my hobby. I know guys that race sprint cars professionally that have 50-70 grand tied up in their cars and have actually won $300 at a race, and that's it. When I think of their rate of return against mine, I'll take mine anyday.

[where02190]

 

Originally posted by Audioeast Dont solder SPeakons....it makes them unfixable in my opinion, just tin the leads and tighten em down

 

 

Absolutely do NOT tin the leads. This is a mechanical connection that relys on surface contact. Tinning the leads severly reduces the surface area and weakens the amount of pressure that can be exerted onto the mechanical connection.

 

Speakon connectors come with small copper tubes to put over the exposed wiring before placing inside the connector and tightening down. USE THEM!!!

[Miket156]

From the sound of it, a lot of players are not being paid enough, if at all, for playing music. I think that's pretty stupid. The only place I ever remember the "play to pay" rip off was in LA. Acts thought they had to be playing in order to be "discovered". The only thing the bulk of them discovered was the club owner was making a mint on their stupidity.

 

 

Mike T.

[agedhorse]

 

Originally posted by where02190 Speakon connectors come with small copper tubes to put over the exposed wiring before placing inside the connector and tightening down. USE THEM!!!

 

The old ones did. The newer ones have a plated compression saddle built in.

[Guest Anonymous]

 

Originally posted by where02190 You can get speakons that are not solder, but use allen screws to lock in the cabling

 

Neutrik or knock-off's?

 

I'm under the impression that the Allen head set-screw equipped Speakon connectors haven't been available from Neutrik for years. I've come across quite a few contemporory Speakon like knock-off cordends with the 1.5mm Allen (sockethead) set screws.

[ThomasH]

Originally posted by MrKnobs I saw him backstage after it was over, and he mysteriously said to me, "This ain't over. They'll be sorry." It wasn't over. But that's another story. Terry D.

 

I know this would be hijacking the thread but we gotta hear the continuation of your story. Your writing is very captivating, so don't leave us hanging... tell the rest. You know you want to

 

Maybe in another thread somewhere?

[kevinnem]

 

Originally posted by where02190 Absolutely do NOT tin the leads. This is a mechanical connection that relys on surface contact. Tinning the leads severly reduces the surface area and weakens the amount of pressure that can be exerted onto the mechanical connection. Speakon connectors come with small copper tubes to put over the exposed wiring before placing inside the connector and tightening down. USE THEM!!!

 

 

That is my problem, .. some use the copper, some use a silver metal(zinc?) and I find as I try to tighen the screew, it wedgs the wire out.

 

I find I am better off, with going bare, .. twisting it together, .. shove it in a screew it.

[where02190]

 

Originally posted by kevinnem I find as I try to tighen the screew, it wedgs the wire out.

 

 

Sounds like you're not trimming back enough jacket. the wire needs to go in all the way to the bottom of the hole. If you trim the jacket too short, the wire ends where the screw is pressing down, and will force it out naturally.

[kevinnem]

 

Originally posted by where02190 Sounds like you're not trimming back enough jacket. the wire needs to go in all the way to the bottom of the hole. If you trim the jacket too short, the wire ends where the screw is pressing down, and will force it out naturally.

 

 

with raw wire it works, .. but with teh little medal things it doesn't.