Members Audiopyle Sound Posted January 30, 2006 Members Share Posted January 30, 2006 Originally posted by kevinnem with raw wire it works, .. but with teh little medal things it doesn't. Sometimes the little metal thing doesn't let the wire go all the way in. I always remove the screws and metal tabs from the connector, insert the wire, and then shove the metal tab in alongside the wire followed by installing the screw. With 4 conductor wire I find it easiest to start by installing the 1+ and 2+ wires at the same time, and tightening them, then the negative connections one at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted January 30, 2006 Members Share Posted January 30, 2006 Originally posted by kevinnem with raw wire it works, .. but with teh little medal things it doesn't. Geometrics are against you if you don't trim back the jacket enough. I've never had a problem with this, I've assembled hundreds of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Originally posted by Audiopyle Sound Sometimes the little metal thing doesn't let the wire go all the way in. I always remove the screws and metal tabs from the connector, insert the wire, and then shove the metal tab in alongside the wire followed by installing the screw. Concerning NL4FC cordends: I believe the set-screws are threaded in far enough at the factory to allow the barrel to slide over the contact body without screwing the set-screws in further if there are unused termination. Whatever the reason, I've found that backing the set-screws out about 1 to 1 1/2 full turns from the factory installation before attempting to insert the conductors makes a huge difference in facilitating inserting the conductors without having to remove the tab. Getting a good tight twist on the filements helps a bunch too. If the tab's still in the way, shoving a medium sized jeweler's Phillips screwdriver in the hole works to push the tab back some. Concerning NL2FC cordends: Removing the compression sleeve from the shell helps when inserting the conductors into the termination holes. Originally posted by Audiopyle Sound With 4 conductor wire I find it easiest to start by installing the 1+ and 2+ wires at the same time, and tightening them, then the negative connections one at a time. Yes! Install 1+ and 2+ at the same time, then do the neg terminations one at a time on NL4FC ends. I used to do one end straight on in relationship to how the conductors are arranged in the cable, then on the other end I'd assemble 1+ and 2+, then give the end a 180 deg. turn and to the negs. Now I do a 90 with one conductor on each end. This is hard to explain, but it works good... and if you do it right, the 90 conductor will come in on the correct side of the termination hole (away from the tab and set-screw. Also, doing one 90 on each end facilitates using the fingernail on your thumb to manipulate the lip of the conductor's insulation to guide the filements of the conductor into the hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ryan Yorck Posted January 31, 2006 Members Share Posted January 31, 2006 Originally posted by where02190 ... the solder type, which require a fairly high heat gun to assemble. Huh? Do you mean a high temp solder gun? I'm just about to covert a bunch of 1/4" to speakons, so I'm curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted January 31, 2006 Members Share Posted January 31, 2006 Yes a high temp iron, but I do not recommend using these, I recommend using the screw terminal ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted January 31, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted January 31, 2006 High power, not high temperature. A larger mass absorbs and dissipates proportionally more heat, which cools the iron below the solder melting point. What typically happens with beginners is they hold the iron in place waiting for the solder to flow...it doesn't and the surrounding plastic and insulation melt, or a component is burned. By providing an iron with more power, the same 600-700F temp can be maintained and the connection can be made quickly, before surrounding parts heat too much. Get in, get out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ryan Yorck Posted January 31, 2006 Members Share Posted January 31, 2006 Originally posted by Craigv High power, not high temperature. A larger mass absorbs and dissipates proportionally more heat, which cools the iron below the solder melting point. What typically happens with beginners is they hold the iron in place waiting for the solder to flow...it doesn't and the surrounding plastic and insulation melt, or a component is burned.By providing an iron with more power, the same 600-700F temp can be maintained and the connection can be made quickly, before surrounding parts heat too much.Get in, get out. Thanks, this makes sense. We were having a hard time with some new NL4 panel jacks, we were worried about melting the plastic. How many watts gives 600-700F? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MrKnobs Posted February 1, 2006 Moderators Share Posted February 1, 2006 Originally posted by ThomasH I know this would be hijacking the thread but we gotta hear the continuation of your story. Your writing is very captivating, so don't leave us hanging... tell the rest. You know you want to Maybe in another thread somewhere? Yes, part of a larger work to come. Probably another 30,000 word "novel" over on SSS Sound&Stage like the groupie story linked below. Terry D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 Originally posted by Ryan Yorck Thanks, this makes sense. We were having a hard time with some new NL4 panel jacks, we were worried about melting the plastic. How many watts gives 600-700F? Well... I use a 65 watt tip on my solder station when soldering up speaker cable to Speakon jacks. Most any wattage from 10 to 10,000 is capable of producing 700 deg. F, but you need thermal mass and/or fast recovery to produce the eutectic point of solder throughout the termination point. What helps a BUNCH is to do a good job of tinning the conductor and solder tab on that NL4MPR or NL4MP jack... and loading the conductor and solder tab with just the right amount of extra solder so the final solder-up connection goes fast and smooth. If everything goes right, you shouldn't have to add any solder when making the final joining. Understand that a solder joint is an amalgam with the parent metals of the conductor/ metal of the termination point, and the solder. The solder is an alloy, but the desired effect is to amalgamate the solder with the conductor and metal of the termination point. This means the solder and conductor metal/ termination point metal has to reach the eutectic point of solder on atleast a surface molecule level. Molecules of the solder will actually flow in with the surface molecules of the conductor and termination point metal... kind of like mud working it's way into asphalt. It's much easier, and more controllable to first amalgamate the solder with the conductor, and amalgamate the solder with the termination point metal... and then melt the solder together that amalgamated with the two parent metals at the final joining than it is to solder the whole works together in one-go. Also, the conductor copper should be touching the metal of the termination point metal, as to minimize the conductive distance in solder, since solder is such a lousy conductor. Maybe I should do a video? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ryan Yorck Posted February 2, 2006 Members Share Posted February 2, 2006 Originally posted by Audiopile Well... I use a 65 watt tip on my solder station when soldering up speaker cable to Speakon jacks. Most any wattage from 10 to 10,000 is capable of producing 700 deg. F, but you need thermal mass and/or fast recovery to produce the eutectic point of solder throughout the termination point. What helps a BUNCH is to do a good job of tinning the conductor and solder tab on that NL4MPR or NL4MP jack... Also, the conductor copper should be touching the metal of the termination point metal... Maybe I should do a video? Yes! A video would be an awesome contribution to the forum, I'm sure there' s a bunch of us who could use the advice. For now, I'm trying to digest this info (Thanks in advance). What's the best way to tin the conductor, and also the best way to tin the solder tab? Also, I'm confused of how the conductor copper can touch the termination point if they're both coated in solder, from tinning them before hand. Lastly, are these any good? Could I get away with the cheaper one? http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=372-120 http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?DID=7&PartNumber=372-145 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Originally posted by Ryan Yorck Yes! A video would be an awesome contribution to the forum, I'm sure there' s a bunch of us who could use the advice. For now, I'm trying to digest this info (Thanks in advance). [/url] Humm... it might have to be pictures since doing video something would probably involve learning more computer something, and that comes slow... but a picture is worth 1000 words when it comes to explaining stuff, I think. My time at the soldering bench seems like something I was born knowing, but I've watched some other highly experienced solder techs at work, and I guess there are a lot of little fine points that make a difference... and pictures are probably the best explaination for some of these fine points. I suspose the best advice is the advice my welding instructor gave me in college: 1) Get your work jigged up so you're working on the joint, not on holding the work... you only have 2 hands. Maybe it's like playing guitar... in that it's a lot easier to play guitar if you aren't using both your hands to hold the guitar. 2) What you should be looking at is the puddle, not the welding rod. Originally posted by Ryan Yorck What's the best way to tin the conductor, and also the best way to tin the solder tab? Generally the solder tab of a Speakon connector tins easy. If you can't get a good doo tinning the solder tab, then you've got a basic problem with your rigging (solder iron, solder, work environment). I use a chisel tip, iron set at 700 deg, 63-37 mildly activated rosin, .050" dia solder, panel jack in a jig, tab oriented up and flat. First I wet sponge clean the iron tip, then tin the iron tip. At a right angle to the orientation of the tab I lay the tip of the iron on the tab at the bevel angle of the tip, then feed a dollap of solder on from the solder spool. Application of the solder to the tab takes about 2 seconds max. I apply just enough solder to wet the tab and leave a convex bead of solder on the tab. If the tab is heated to the point where the solder sags and leaves a blob on the underside, then it's time to do-over. Stranded conductors up-to about 16ga. also tin easy. The lighter guage wires I tin in about the same manner as tinning tabs, except I bring the conductor and iron to the solder, rather than bringing the solder and iron to the wire. This is part of the reason why I like using .050" solder, cause you can spool off about 6" of solder and it will stay where you put it, with the spool acting as a "holder" to hold the solder some fixed place in space. Thinner solder will droop. Bigger than 16ga. stranded conductors take some finesse. Regardless of the guage, I twist the filaments tightly before tinning. This keeps the filaments from fuzzing out when making the solder joint. Bigger than 16ga. I rotate and feed solder when heating with the iron. The idea is to fully saturate the filament bundle with solder, and wick enough solder onto the conductor to almost blurr the filaments... so it looks like a tinned solid conductor when you're done. Again, if you add so much solder that it's making a blob on the underside, that's too much. If you start to pucker the insulation, it's do over time. Snip back and start again. If you get just the right amount of solder tinned on the tab and on the conductor, you shouldn't have to add any more when making the final solder joint. Old wire oftentimes won't take solder worth a darn without some serious cleaning. Originally posted by Ryan Yorck Also, I'm confused of how the conductor copper can touch the termination point if they're both coated in solder, from tinning them before hand. [/url] Well, right... but the idea is to get them as close together as possible. Push the wire right on against the tab when applying the heat with the solder iron. When I make the final joining, right before going in with the iron, I again wet sponge clean the iron tip and tin the tip with solder, leaving a little bead of wet solder on the tip. A sag blob on the tip is too much, just tinned is too little. Somewhere in-btween is about right. Getting just the right amount is subject to the needs of the joint. Again, I use a chisel tip, and go in with the tip at a right angle to the joint, laying the length of the end of the tip right into the croch of the joint between the bottom of the conductor and the bead of solder on the tab... so the top bevel of the tip is heating the conductor, and the bottom bevel of the tip is heating the tab. It takes about 2 to 3 seconds to make the joint when soldering 12 ga. to the tab of an NL4MP jack. When the solder is molten, it's easy to manipulate the conductor so it's sitting right on the tab. Pull out of the work so you don't leave a tit of solder. I pull out to the left slightly wicking a little solder up the 1/16" or so of exposed conductor between the end of the tab and the insulation. You'll need to hold the conductor in-place for about 3 to 5 seconds after pulling out of the work with the iron until the solder fully solidifies. The finished solder job should be bright, not dull or grainy. The soldered coated filaments of the conductors should be just perceivable, or too much solder was used to make the joint. Originally posted by Ryan Yorck Lastly, are these any good? Could I get away with the cheaper one? http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=372-120http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?DID=7&PartNumber=372-145 I use a Weller WSL, which is similar to the #2 solder station, but has a digital display for the temp. I have 4 of them. Whatever solder station you invest in, I suggest a thermostatically controlled and variable temp, along with changable tips which are available in various wattages and shapes. You want fast recovery and enough mass and the right shape of the tip for the job. I bought my solder stations on eBay, pretty cheap. Good ones come up all the time from defunct electronic assembly outfits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 2, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted February 2, 2006 Originally posted by Ryan Yorck Thanks, this makes sense. We were having a hard time with some new NL4 panel jacks, we were worried about melting the plastic. How many watts gives 600-700F? Just to reiterate and reinforce: Watts do not equal maximum temperature. A 25W pencil will produce 600-700F with no problem, but only with a relatively small heated mass, such as small wire. A 375W gun can do the same temperature and *maintain* that temperature against larger wire or metal parts such as potentiometer cases. Something tiny like that "cold heat" device only produces a few watts, and has a tiny tip. It can only solder very small items, and it has such a small thermal mass (the tip) that the heat dissipates so rapidly you can touch it a moment after it's turned off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Originally posted by Craigv Just to reiterate and reinforce:Watts do not equal maximum temperature. A 25W pencil will produce 600-700F with no problem, but only with a relatively small heated mass, such as small wire. A 375W gun can do the same temperature and *maintain* that temperature against larger wire or metal parts such as potentiometer cases. Something tiny like that "cold heat" device only produces a few watts, and has a tiny tip. It can only solder very small items, and it has such a small thermal mass (the tip) that the heat dissipates so rapidly you can touch it a moment after it's turned off. Right! When I'm soldering speaker wires and such I use a 60w tip on my Wheller solder station. When I'm doing delicate PC board work I use a 10w tip. When I'm doing smaller wire or not-so delicate PC board work, I use a 30w tip. All 3 tips will run at 650F (or 700F as the case may be) just fine... it's just that the 60w tip will only sag out maybe 20deg before recovering on 12ga. wire, where-as the 10w tip never recovers to even 500F on 12ga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.