Is it ok to mic an amp by just wrapping it around the handle?

[DaBender]

 

Originally posted by where02190 C'mon, is one stand really gonna break your back and the bank? If so, you really need to consider a new hobby.

 

 

Let's see, it's MY guitar tone to worry about, I'm happy with the sound without the bother of a stand, and everyone else tells me I sound great. Am I supposed to use a stand to make YOU happy?

[where02190]

Nope.

[glepko]

 

Originally posted by agedhorse Z-bar is another option

 

 

What's this??

 

FWIW to the thread, I use a boom stand or a short desk-top stand on a crate. The shorty fits in my cables and accesories tub with no extra weight or hassle.

[Guest Anonymous]

 

Originally posted by glepko What's this?? (a Z bar)

 

A Z bar is a piece of like 1/8" x 1" x approx 2ft. hunk of black metal bent in the shape of a "Z" with a mic clip on one end. Typical use is stuck between a top and bottom guitar cab or maybe the head and cab... to hold a mic.

 

Example:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Z-Bar-Mic-Stands-for-SM57-SM58_W0QQitemZ260000880861

[Unalaska]

Why don't you permanently mount a mic in the back of your cab? Use a flange mount mic base with a 6" gooseneck and mic the back of the speaker? If polarity is an issue then wire a 1' XLR cable with pins 2 and 3 reversed...

p

[DaBender]

This is pretty funny. A guy comes on and asks if a particular technique is acceptable. A couple of us reply that we wouldn't do it with most microphones, but it works well for us with a certain style mic (e.g. E609). Then a bunch of you try to convince us that it can't possibly be ok. Whatever.

[where02190]

 

Originally posted by Unalaska Why don't you permanently mount a mic in the back of your cab? Use a flange mount mic base with a 6" gooseneck and mic the back of the speaker? If polarity is an issue then wire a 1' XLR cable with pins 2 and 3 reversed... p

 

 

This only works for open backed cabinets, and the sound from the back is not even close to what is generated from the front.

 

 

This is pretty funny. A guy comes on and asks if a particular technique is acceptable. A couple of us reply that we wouldn't do it with most microphones, but it works well for us with a certain style mic (e.g. E609). Then a bunch of you try to convince us that it can't possibly be ok. Whatever.

 

 

I don't think anyone said it couldn't be done, just that generally it's not the best way.

 

Z-bars also work well stuck under the handles of combos. They are excellent little devices, easy to transport and setup, and allow mics to be positioned and placed without worry of them rubbing against grills or getting banged around. I have some I made specifically for 609's that are shorter so they don't stick out as far as the standard ones.

 

Another option is to mount a podium flange your cab. I've seen creative placement on straight marshall cabs (which are very deep between the cab face and the grill) with just the flange and the clip that looked and worked great. You can also mount them flush to the front, or on the top and have a small gooseneck or small boom attachment.

[DaBender]

A Google search on sennheiser draped will reveal that I have plenty of company in the asylum. Why, HC's own Lee Flier states that it works well that way. Of course, I hear that she likes those Bose things, too...

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Originally posted by DaBender This is pretty funny. A guy comes on and asks if a particular technique is acceptable. A couple of us reply that we wouldn't do it with most microphones, but it works well for us with a certain style mic (e.g. E609). Then a bunch of you try to convince us that it can't possibly be ok. Whatever.

 

 

I'm pretty sure nobody said it wasn't okay. Where's the "bunch" you describe?

 

But you're right that it's funny. The humor started when it was mentioned that a mic stand was too much hassle.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Originally posted by DaBender A Google search on sennheiser draped will reveal that I have plenty of company in the asylum. Why, HC's own Lee Flier states that it works well that way. Of course, I hear that she likes those Bose things, too...

 

 

Again, nobody said it wouldn't work. The issues are whether a 609 will be too close to make best use of its pickup pattern and concerns about grill noise, both of which are certainly possible.

[DaBender]

Well, if you didn't say it wasn't "ok", you certainly insisted that I shouldn't mind setting up a mic stand, even if my own ears tell me it isn't necessary. Thanks for the advice, but I'll make my own decision on that. BTW, the sole reason I bought the E609 was so I wouldn't have to bother with the stand for my sm57 anymoe.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Originally posted by DaBender Well, if you didn't say it wasn't "ok", you certainly insisted that I shouldn't mind setting up a mic stand, even if my own ears tell me it isn't necessary. Thanks for the advice, but I'll make my own decision on that. BTW, the sole reason I bought the E609 was so I wouldn't have to bother with the stand for my sm57 anymoe.

 

 

Lighten up, Francis. Where was my 'insistence'? I'm laughing that you think a mic stand is too much work....800lb of speakers, cables, mixer, amps....but that one shorty mic stand, man, that puts it over the top.......

[where02190]

 

Originally posted by DaBender Well, if you didn't say it wasn't "ok", you certainly insisted that I shouldn't mind setting up a mic stand, even if my own ears tell me it isn't necessary. Thanks for the advice, but I'll make my own decision on that. BTW, the sole reason I bought the E609 was so I wouldn't have to bother with the stand for my sm57 anymoe.

 

 

I read this thread through 3x and can't find where anyone " insisted that I shouldn't mind setting up a mic stand, even if my own ears tell me it isn't necessary."

 

Take a {censored}ing valium dude. If you don't want to put the {censored}ing mic on a stand then don't but quit {censored}ing whining about those who prefer to.

[agedhorse]

We also designed in compensated balanced (real balanced) direct output on some of our guitar amp products because some folks prefer the sound of that live when mixed in with the stage sound. Also, on a small stage, it's one less mic to deal with. Everyone has their set of compromises that they can live with.

[where02190]

A direct is never going to sound like a mic'd speaker, period. If you want the sound of your amp as you hear it onstage, mic it properly.

[J.]

You guys actually mic guitar amps? I though the mics were just for looks. Usually you need to mic everything else just to compete with the guitars' stage volume.

I know guitar/volume jokes are old but I couldn't resist.

[DaBender]

 

Originally posted by where02190 I read this thread through 3x and can't find where anyone " insisted that I shouldn't mind setting up a mic stand, even if my own ears tell me it isn't necessary." Take a {censored}ing valium dude. If you don't want to put the {censored}ing mic on a stand then don't but quit {censored}ing whining about those who prefer to.

 

 

Well, "If it's really a hardship to haul one extra stand and set it up, then perhaps this isn't your ideal line of work???" and "C'mon, is one stand really gonna break your back and the bank? If so, you really need to consider a new hobby." sure sounds like you're insisting it shouldn't be a bother to me. Now you tell me "Take a {censored}ing valium dude", and I'm the one that's got to lighten up? Priceless.

[DaBender]

 

Originally posted by Craigv Lighten up, Francis. Where was my 'insistence'? I'm laughing that you think a mic stand is too much work....800lb of speakers, cables, mixer, amps....but that one shorty mic stand, man, that puts it over the top.......

 

 

You seem to completely miss my point. If there was a perceived benefit to using the stand, I would. Since there isn't I don't. Probably the same reason Derek Trucks doesn't bother. Actually, for my blues band gigs, I don't bother to mic the amp at all.

[glepko]

Here's an idea....split the guitar signal and run two 100 watt full stacks on each side of the stage, hopefully with a sidewash cab from each side and of course running as much volume as possible. Then you can hang any mic of choice in front of each speaker and input into 32 channels. At least this way you won't have to use any mic stands and carry all that extra weight. It will most certainly sound like your amp does on stage at least somewhere in the room.

 

I'd also like to point out that the OP questioned if it would be ok to wrap an amp around the handle. I say hell yeah that'd be okay if you can figure out how to pull it off!!

 

(sorry serious posters, this thread has turned ridiculous so I might as well pad my post count, not that I'm concerned with that, I'll post something again in a few months when I've got something important)

[IsildursBane]

 

Originally posted by where02190 Z-bars also work well stuck under the handles of combos.

 

 

I don't know if I'd say they work well. I usually have to wedge an empty mic bag in there so that the thing stays in place. Positioning them, in general, is a bit of a chore for me. I think z-bars are just one of those things that everybody else likes, but I really don't care to bother with. I'll concede that on a stage, they can be a lot cleaner looking, but for convenience, I'd much rather use a stand.

 

-Dan.

[DaBender]

Another technique is to use a gooseneck tucked under the amp's handle. Depending on the handle, it may be difficult to position it precisely without it moving on you.

[agedhorse]

 

Originally posted by where02190 A direct is never going to sound like a mic'd speaker, period. If you want the sound of your amp as you hear it onstage, mic it properly.

I never said it would sound identical to a mic'ed speaker, just like when you eq the guitar channel to YOUR tastes it doesn't sound exactly like the mic'ed speaker and who listens to a speaker at 3" away anyhow? It sounds considerably different at 30 feet than at 3" so what's the argument?

 

A (compensated) direct out can be used to augment the amp's sound washing off the stage in a constructive way under some conditions which SOME guitarists prefer. If you don't like doing this then don't bother... we all know you have better ears than those who do like this method.

[J.]

I used to use an LP percussion claw to mic my old guitar player's 4x12 cab. If the cab has a lip on the front you can just clamp the LP claw on and position the mic where you want it. I found this to work quite well and it was a lot more convenient than a small boom stand.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Originally posted by DaBender You seem to completely miss my point. If there was a perceived benefit to using the stand, I would. Since there isn't I don't. Probably the same reason Derek Trucks doesn't bother. Actually, for my blues band gigs, I don't bother to mic the amp at all.

 

 

As I wrote earlier, the perceived benefit is positioning the mic where its pickup pattern is best, and eliminating vibration. And again neither I nor anyone else is trying to talk you into or out of anything. You might want to read my earlier posts that related that I've never experienced a problem with grill vibration.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Originally posted by where02190 A direct is never going to sound like a mic'd speaker, period. If you want the sound of your amp as you hear it onstage, mic it properly.

 

 

It was never claimed that a direct would sound like a mic'd speaker. It was merely noted as another option. Some also like to mix a direct feed with a mic'd feed, as I'm sure you know and have done.