How'd you get so wise? ;)

[eloydrummerboy]

This is a question for you guru's. How did you come to know as much as you do? I've played in bands since I was in middle school, I'm 21 now and i've just started getting into live sound and the such. I'm currently pursuing an EE degree and that certainly helps with alot of this stuff and I'd like to someday use my degree to get a job related to audio electronics. However, there is just so much information that I don't know exactly where to look for a good starting point. Did you guys have any formal education? Did you learn it all by expierience? I'd like to know what you did to get to where you are today.

 

Also, I've looked at schools like Full Sail and the like who offer degrees in areas such as recording engineer and live sound engineer. Any experience or knowledge of these programs? Worth the money/time?

 

Thanks is advance.

 

 

-Scott

[eloydrummerboy]

also, if any of you guys work in a related field as your day job and don't mind sharing, what do you do? do you enjoy it? How'd you land the position?

[The Real MC]

I'm also an EE but most of my pro audio experience is from trial & error, and a discriminating set of ears. Developing the ears is something that is hard to teach in a classroom - I've disected lots of recordings that I have listened to and have had plenty of different styles of live music in my repretoire. I just had this natural affility to analyze sound, even my mom noticed it when I was three (and I'm hearing impaired!).

[flanc]

I'm have a Computer Science BS, but have been in and around music for quite a while. I've worked extensively in the area of computer network design and I see a strong correlation with audio. However, I have found trial and error, along with following the threads on this board, have been the most educational.

 

EDIT: By responding I did not want to wrongly put myself in league with the "wise and sage" audio pundits who frequent the board. I am a novice hobbyist. Happily, I've climbed a few rungs on the expertise ladder, but knowingly have many more in front of me than behind!

[Craig Vecchione]

I'm not expert on anything, but what I do know I've learned over the years, no formal schooling for this. And I've picked up a huge amount of information here...this forum is a truly invaluable source. I think most of us would agree that we learn something here every day, no matter what 'level' we may be at.

[Guest Anonymous]

I think this industry is more daunting for the new recruits than it's been for myself and others of my ring count. I've been fortunate enough to grow my knowledge and understanding incrementally during much of the technology evolution. Somebody just now stepping in is possibly facing a much steeper learning curve than what I first faced when I was entering the field. Additionally, I can pick and choose what of the older/simpler technology I'd just as soon keep using (cause it's still working fine for my applications)... where-as someone who's just starting out would have a difficult time judging various learning curves associated with the array of technology currently available since they wouldn't know the variety of ways available to make hay.

 

FWIW: My formal education was a combination of:

 

1) EE

2) Communications

3) Tech Ed

 

I can't think of a single college class I took that was a waste of time considering my career. There's a lot of additional college education I wish I had taken.

 

And... I'd suggest that experience is equally as important as formal education.

[Al Poulin]

I`m far from being as knowledgeable as many regulars on this forum but I have learned a great deal simply from reading the variety of different threads that appear every day. Many people have expertise in different fields and it is always interesting to read their answers. It`s also fun to read the input from people who work for manufacturers like Dboomer (Peavey) and Boseengineer (BOSE). Another good source for info is manufacturers`websites. Yorkville`s audio guide is one of my favorites :

 

http://yorkville.com/default.asp?p1=6&p2=0&p_id=17

 

 

I have been reading audio magazines since I was in high school and believe it`s important to keep doing so to stay on top of new technologies. In the end, I believe experience is the best teacher as no school will teach you how to deal with drunk people who want it louder and always seem to want ONE MORE SONG! Or why a home stereo receiver may not be the best choice for somewhat more demanding professional sound applications...

 

Most of the members here are alot of fun and everyone's input contributes to the wealth of information that is available here.

 

Thank everyone! Al Poulin - Party-Time! DJ Services (yes, a DJ that actually knows a little bit about sound....)

[Johnw]

I am 49 years old. I have been involved in live sound since I was 14 years old. I have been involved in eletronics since I was 7 years old. Busted by the FCC when I turned 14 for illegal radio operation. Gor my amature ticket when I turned 18. I have since let it expire, I do not miss it now. I worked for several years in the commercial and public service communications industry. I got out of that and now own 4 businesses of which three are still tied to eletronics field or music in some fashion. I no longer try to do much board level work. I tried to be a muso at 14, but the fact remains that some can and some can't. I can play just enough to get myself into trouble real quick. however I have had an understanding of what is needed in live sound work. I could set up and operate the PA when nobody else could. I understood at an early age about mics, amps and speakers. I have spent countless days experimenting with the signal chain and various routing methods with a mixer. I have read, studied and asked questions about everything and still do. You will find that you cannot stop asking question or learning ever. If you do, its time to find something else to do. I have some collage and tech schools. I wish I had the time for some more. Learn, experiment and apply what you learn. You will make headway after a short while. Take Care, John

[Black Frog]

The more you know, the more stuff you realize you don't know....

[boseengineer]

M.Sc. in EE

Ph.D. in acoustics

30 years of playing live, hundreds of gigs

19 years industry experience

 

Does that make me wise ?

No, I still make plenty of mistakes, just more sophisticated (= more expensive) ones.

[agedhorse]

Engineering degrees in EE and AgE. Plenty of general education as well, and like Mark I use little bits of everything in the various situations I encounter.

 

Education teaches you how to think and analyze.

 

and yes, the more education you have the more grandiose the mistakes:thu:

[eloydrummerboy]

Thanks for the responces and thanks to everyone who contributes to this forum. You keep writing them, I'll keep reading them. It's nice to know I have a place where I can get my questions answered honestly by a wide array of knowledgeable poeple.

 

-Scott

"live to play live"

[agedhorse]

Then again... there are some who are educated beyond their intelligence

[Scodiddly]

Computer Science BS, though I was originally going to go EE. That might have saved me a burnout, but anyway I'm back in audio again these days.

 

I take a very open attitude about learning things, which I think is critical. If somebody seems to (or claims to) know something I don't, I'm not afraid to ask a dumb question. Better to learn something than to pretend to already know it! But aside from that I do read a few internet forums (prosoundweb is great for some things, Harmony Central also quite good), I find old engineering books at the library and at thrift stores - older books seem to give better descriptions of fundamentals than newer books.

[joel77]

Originally posted by Al Poulin ....... Or why a home stereo receiver may not be the best choice for somewhat more demanding professional sound applications... ........ Thank everyone! Al Poulin - Party-Time! DJ Services (yes, a DJ that actually knows a little bit about sound.... )

 

Wow Al, that brings back memories!! Back in the day of very little equipment and even less money! We used anything that would throw sound!

 

I have no formal education in sound or electronics, but with most of 40 years real world experience, I'm beginning to understand. As others have said, the forums and the internet in general, have been extremely helpful.

 

Joel

[Al Poulin]

Originally posted by joel77 Wow Al, that brings back memories!! Back in the day of very little equipment and even less money! We used anything that would throw sound! I have no formal education in sound or electronics, but with most of 40 years real world experience, I'm beginning to understand. As others have said, the forums and the internet in general, have been extremely helpful. Joel

 

 

My first set of professional speakers were a pair of Yorkville Pulse 153's. I distinctly remember playing one of my first weddings powering them with a Sherwood 75w/channel home stereo amplifier. I even had a small fan right on top of it blowing air inside to keep it cool! I must have looked like such a loser! Good thing about that was that the amplifier had a level meter that showed me how close I was to the amp's max output. Another good thing is that those speakers were efficient. I'm not sure how the hell I managed a wedding with that kind of setup but I guess I have to laugh about it today I went through many 100 watt per channel home receivers/amplifiers, eventually using 2 because I eventually got a second pair of 153's. One day my dad was tired of seeing me come home with these amps I had bought at hock shops and told me, why don't you just get a new professional one! That amp was a Yamaha P3500. It pushed those four 153's without problem for many years..Anyway, another not so fun memory is the cassette tape. I used to bring a little double deck with headphones to cue each song while another was playing. Holy {censored}, I came back home with the biggest stress headaches you can imagine... Then I bought my first Minidisc recorder. Recordable CDs didn't exist at the time, so this machine was a dream come true. I paid 700$ at the time and blanks were 10$ for a 60minute or 12$ for a 74 minute. I now have 7 players and over 400 minidiscs. My first minidisc player is still working and still serves me well. MDS-JE500. It's unforunate the format never caught on exept in Japan..... Anyway, it's fun to think back sometimes... Al Poulin - Party-Time! DJ Services

[bassred]

I don't like reading for the sake of 'hearing a story' so I read manuals, magazines and catalogs (not to mention the 5 or 6 books I have on audio). Most of my experience comes from doing it. I've worked concerts, video shoots, conferences. A lot of what you really need to know comes up in real world situations, that's how I've learned (and those books...) I wish I had found these forums a few years back, I can't imagine how much I could have learned form them (without having to find it in a reference manual somewhere)

 

 

You guys Rock!!!!!!

[Unalaska]

 

Originally posted by Audiopile I can't think of a single college class I took that was a waste of time considering my career. There's a lot of additional college education I wish I had taken. And... I'd suggest that experience is equally as important as formal education.

 

 

I think taking bowling for the 3rd time was prolly a waste of time in college. There a few other classes too but I did drop out though, never finished my BA in music (on double bass). Now that I'm playing music full time I wish I had the time to finish but right now

[Unalaska]

My education is a LOT of college though, 6 years and I learned a hell of a lot about music and other areas too. No EE and very little business though so if I went back I'd definitly do a business degree. Mainly to clear up some points I missed along the way. I'm still young(ish) at 33 so I have some time. Besides I may want a career change in 5 years, who knows? I do like working for myself though, it can be rough but I enjoy it a lot.

p

 

FWIW, no formal training on sound whatsoever. I did learn a lot working with soundpeeps at a music store. There was a proaudio side and a couple good friends worked there and encouraged me to do more with it. It's been a recent new thing in the last 6 years or so and now being able to stand on my own two feet as an audio engineer.

[dboomer]

I started out playing in a R&R band at the age of 14. I was the only guy that could solder so I fixed the cords and the amps. I was a big Popular Electronics buff and built a great number of projects including my own power amps and speaker systems.

 

My formal education was as a music major but I took a lot of electronics classes. I left school when our records hit the charts for touring and recording. I spent a lot of time in studios and eventually setting up Tascam semi-pro recording studios, when they first started, in Hollywood. Eventually I hated my studio tan and started a touring sound business.

 

My real education came from lots of live experience, mostly screwing up, and a couple of trips to Syn-Aud-Con.

 

Other than that, I owned a couple of Music stores and ran a sound contracting business for about 20 years. That lead to to where I am today ... the product manager of the sound re-inforcement division of Peavey Electronics.

[Mogwix]

I'm just a young musician who has a basic grasp of live sound and audio systems.

 

All my (albiet limited) knowledge comes from our gigs and doing the system myself. I've also learned a lot by posting here. When you want to learn about something it's always a good idea to surround yourself with knowledgable and experienced people. I know enough to get by with my band for now and am learning more and more. I hope to land a job helping out with a sound company to hopefully learn more and maybe get paid to do this job :/

[Dogoth]

Wow! Does responding to this thread denote Ego? I in no way claim to be wise. What "wisdom" I've gleened throughout the years is through both education and experiance. As others here have stated you must keep an open mind and never stop learning. Since becoming a member of HC forums I've dispelled a couple of long held beliefs and learned the truth in these matters (I'm always willing to say "woah I always thought that..... well I guess I was wrong"). Ya asking many questions is always good so keep on asking. As audiopile posted, some of us grew up as the technology matured so our learning curve was a bit more gentle. Being an operating audio engineer takes a good balanced understanding of electronics, physics, acoustics and music (Oh and I almost forgot psychology:D ).

 

I had a discussion a while back with a colleague about the importance of ear training. Even though my hearing isn't as good as it was 20 yrs ago (as of my last test it's still better than average for my age), my ability to discern what's going on in my environment has greatly improved (sort of acoustic memory).

 

If you're really interested in persuing a career in this field, just keep on asking questions and welcome to the club.

[Guest Anonymous]

 

Originally posted by JRBLE Wow! Does responding to this thread denote Ego? I in no way claim to be wise. What "wisdom" I've gleened throughout the years is through both education and experiance.

 

Well... it's been said that knowledge is gained through education. Wisdom is gained through experience. I'll buy that.

 

Knowledge tells us tomatoes are a fruit. Wisdom tells us not to put tomatoes in a fruit salad.

 

One of my favorite sayings:

 

Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing.

 

Wernher von Braun

 

To the point of the OP: I'd say wisdom is gained primarily through experience, while having enough knowledge to become wiser during the experience.

[agedhorse]

 

Originally posted by Audiopile One of my favorite sayings: Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing. Wernher von Braun

 

 

Did you know that Wernher von Braun concreted and painted his front yard green because he didn't like to mow his lawn?

 

(I worked with somebody who worked under him at NASA)

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Originally posted by agedhorse Did you know that Wernher von Braun concreted and painted his front yard green because he didn't like to mow his lawn? (I worked with somebody who worked under him at NASA)

 

 

 

I've often considered doing this. Good to see guys like W vB had the audacity to put such thoughts (and others) into action.

 

 

Of course, now we have laws that prevent such behavior....my town forbids covering more than 25% of my property with impermeable cover....including house, drive, walks, shed, etc. to minimize rain runoff problems.