Members MrJoshua Posted July 11, 2007 Members Share Posted July 11, 2007 I'm thinking of upgrading my PA a little by adding some subwoofers. I'm a big fan of Peavey's bass gear, and what little of their PA gear I've used has been in the same vein - cheap, sturdy, with a usable sound and an absolute refusal to die. But I can't find a pair of these subs locally to try out, so I thought I'd ask if any of y'all have used them and, if so, what you thought. I'd be powering a pair of them with a Crown XLS-602 amplifier. I'll pick up a 2-way crossover to go before the power amp, of course, if I make the purchase. It isn't a big PA. I use it for local clubs and such that generally have crowds of 1-200, sometimes quite a bit smaller. Anything larger usually has a house PA, so I'm not interested in being able to power a system for huge venues. Thanks very much for any help. I did a search and didn't turn up anything before posting the thread, but if the topic has been covered before and there's a specific thread I should be checking out, please just let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Not Serial Posted July 11, 2007 Members Share Posted July 11, 2007 they are not bad speakers. they are not all that loud or high power either. it may work for what you want. my c-rig has single peavey 18" subs and it works fine for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrJoshua Posted July 11, 2007 Author Members Share Posted July 11, 2007 It isn't a very powerful system - 15" 3-way mains driven by a QSC RMX-850. But that's plenty for clubs around here, so I don't need extremely loud subs. Just a decent sound that will give me some kick-and-bass reinforcement. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Danny (NS::U) Posted July 11, 2007 Members Share Posted July 11, 2007 I have two PV118's, and they do everything that I need them to do. The only negative I have found with them is that they are cumbersome to lift. It's not that they're incredibly heavy (the subwoofer amp and case weighs more than one of the enclosures), but the handle placement leaves something to be desired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted July 11, 2007 Members Share Posted July 11, 2007 Personally, I'd drop $500 on one quality sub rather than buying two inexpensive subs. The JBL MRX518s with the RMX850 bridged into it will give you more than a pair of PV-118s driven off of an XLS-602. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted July 11, 2007 Moderators Share Posted July 11, 2007 We play clubs similar to what you're asking about Mr Joshua, and also don't require huge wattage. Not only have I converted a pair of Avatar SB112's for sub use, but I also have a pair of Peavey TLS Subs (15") I picked up from a forumite here. They give us everything we need, and are easy to carry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted July 11, 2007 Members Share Posted July 11, 2007 At two of the smaller places my band plays, I use an Avatar B212 Delta as a sub. I run direct and have no bass amp on stage. At one place, I rive it with half of a Crown XLS-402 and at the other I drive it with half of a PV2600. It doesn't sound as good as the PA does with the 18s, but it does a really good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted July 11, 2007 Members Share Posted July 11, 2007 I understand the idea of running a bass guitar as a subwoofer though there are some problems with that idea. Cab tuning is a big one: bass guitar cabs do need to reinforce 40hz but also need to accentuate the 1st and 2nd harmonics. So the cab will be desinged to carry the 100-300 range pretty well too. Cabs may be well matched for bass guitar in throwing the sound a few feet but to push it into a larger space a dedicated box with enough enclosure volume is needed. PV118's? The newer ones? Well, low sensitivity, partical board (not a deal breaker IMHO), not so great driver, 1/4 jacks on a plastic plate. Well, you could upgrade the sub driver but why. After doing that you've already stepped up to a yamaha 18 in price. There are many used subs on the market for cheap too, so good, some not so good. Personally I'd look for some used SP118s, EV T18s, JBLMR918s Carvin single 18's etc etc. Better value for the bread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted July 11, 2007 Members Share Posted July 11, 2007 And how about getting a matching RMX amp. 1850 will do well for most subs in stereo. 2450 in stereo works too. 850 or 1450 may work in bridge mode but it may a bit much too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrJoshua Posted July 11, 2007 Author Members Share Posted July 11, 2007 And how about getting a matching RMX amp. 1850 will do well for most subs in stereo. 2450 in stereo works too. 850 or 1450 may work in bridge mode but it may a bit much too. Because I already have an RMX 850 and a Crown XLS 602. Right now the Crown drives the mains and the QSC drives the monitors. If I buy some subs I'm going to pick up a smaller amp (either another Crown or another QSC - I think they're both solid choices) to drive the monitors and the QSC will go back to driving the mains so I can use the Crown to drive the subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted July 11, 2007 Members Share Posted July 11, 2007 You could very easily use the 602 to drive the mains and sub(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrJoshua Posted July 12, 2007 Author Members Share Posted July 12, 2007 You could very easily use the 602 to drive the mains and sub(s). You think it would have enough power to do both? 600W/channel at 4 ohms seems like it would be pushing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted July 12, 2007 Members Share Posted July 12, 2007 I don't see how it wouldn't have enough power. 1200 watts out front is a lot of power. Some folks here will tell you that you need no less than 5000 watts to play a 100 person bar, that's crap. The 5kw system will sound much better, but based on what I've seen and heard, most bands get by with BS PAs that push less than 1000 watts and get gigs. Point being, the bar is set pretty low. If you run your mains and subs off of an XLS-602, you will sound better than many other band out there because you are at least running subs. Also, 600 watts at 4 ohms is more than a pair of PV-118s can handle anyway. I'd suggest getting one good sub, bridging the RMX-850 bridged to run it, then drive the mains off of one side of the XLS and the monitors off the other. Unless you're using two monitor sends, then use the RMX for monitors and the XLS to drive the mains and subs. the XLS puts out 370 watts at 8 ohms. That kind of power into a quality sub will yield good results. I played a good sized bar a few weeks ago and ran one sub with 500 watts and had plenty of headroom. This weekend, I'm playing a bar that is 30x50 and I'll be using an Avatar B212 Delta as a sub. It will get 500 watts and it will carry the house. The owner doesn't allow bands to run subs because of noise complaints, so I leave the subs in the trailer and run a sub that doesn't look like a sub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrJoshua Posted July 13, 2007 Author Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 Hm. That's an interesting idea. I could also pick up one quality powered sub for about the same cash as buying two Peavey PV-118s, a new power amp for the monitors (I was thinking about this before you brought up using the 602 to drive both), new speaker cables, etc. Maybe I'd be better going that route and just picking up one for now, whether it's a quality active sub or a good passive sub I can drive with one amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marko Posted July 13, 2007 Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 I have two PV118s, and they do a nice job for the smaller stuff I do, but they really don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted July 13, 2007 Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 Here's a decent deal on a Carvin BR118. They may get a bad rap, but this is just a box with a speaker in it. And that particular speaker is an Eminence Omega Pro 18-C if I'm not mistaken and that's a dandy of a sub. 600 watts of Crown power into that will serve you very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 13, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted July 13, 2007 Some folks here will tell you that you need no less than 5000 watts to play a 100 person bar, that's crap. I'd love to see who said this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flanc Posted July 13, 2007 Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 About 10-20watts per person as a rough rule of thumb. I'll bring 5kw to a small bar frequently but I'll dial back the signal chain at the amps. Headroom is great....using it to the point of being obnoxious is irresponsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted July 13, 2007 Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 I'd love to see who said this. The comment was a bit tongue in cheek, but here's one. However, that's the general vibe most guys get when they come here and ask the same question that gets asked a million times. I could easily get by with a pair of PR12s as mains and a dreaded homebuilt 1x15 sub all driven by a Crown XLS-402. Would it sound as good as my Impulse 1012Ps and homebuilt 1x18s with power to spare? No, but it would work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrJoshua Posted July 13, 2007 Author Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 Here's a decent deal on a Carvin BR118. They may get a bad rap, but this is just a box with a speaker in it. And that particular speaker is an Eminence Omega Pro 18-C if I'm not mistaken and that's a dandy of a sub. 600 watts of Crown power into that will serve you very well. Hm, is the Carvin better than the Peavey, you think? I know I'm probably nitpicking too much since I said at the beginning it wouldn't be for any big shows, and on top of that the clubs around here usually feature crowds too inebriated to tell WHAT you sound like, but still, I'd like something decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted July 13, 2007 Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 Hm, is the Carvin better than the Peavey, you think? I know I'm probably nitpicking too much since I said at the beginning it wouldn't be for any big shows, and on top of that the clubs around here usually feature crowds too inebriated to tell WHAT you sound like, but still, I'd like something decent. Compare the drivers in the two cabs. The Carvin is loaded with an Eminence Omega Pro 18C. 800 Watts RMS, 97 dB and a 4" voice coil. The Peavey is loaded with a Peavey Pro 18. 400 watts RMS, 95 dB and 3" voice coil. I'm the biggest Peavey fan around, but I wouldn't use the PV118s over a single quality 1x18. Also the Carvin cab is plywood and ten pounds lighter than the MDF Peavey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 13, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted July 13, 2007 The comment was a bit tongue in cheek, but here's one. However, that's the general vibe most guys get when they come here and ask the same question that gets asked a million times. I could easily get by with a pair of PR12s as mains and a dreaded homebuilt 1x15 sub all driven by a Crown XLS-402. Would it sound as good as my Impulse 1012Ps and homebuilt 1x18s with power to spare? No, but it would work. That Dynacord XA would be just about the right size as a multi-use installed system in the *club* (not small bar) specified in that thread. Again, keeping things in context, the reply suggesting this system was not pushed in a "you can't possibly do with less" attitude. I know you were being tongue in cheek, but it does get a little old when I see this type accusation so often ("the general vibe most guys get"), but the reality is that we typically see the overwhelming majority of suggestions being quite appropriate to the stated needs and budget. The exception is the "I've got $300 and need a kickass system for my death-metal band" threads, but even with those an attempt is made to compromise and show why the budget needs to be bigger, or the expectations need to be smaller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted July 13, 2007 Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 It's a matter of perception. I'm seeing it less and less now that I understand the real cost of good sound, but you hear it often because it's true. For bands starting out or guys who don't want to gamble 3 months' salary on a band that will probably never break even, it's a hard pill to swallow. Most bar bands are running {censored} PAs and if someone takes the time to wisely choose their components, it doesn't take much money to get above that standard. It's probably best to encourage people to spend as much as they possibly can because they will be less likely to be disappointed and buy again, but it doesn't always come off that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted July 13, 2007 Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 Compare the drivers in the two cabs.The Carvin is loaded with an Eminence Omega Pro 18C. 800 Watts RMS, 97 dB and a 4" voice coil.The Peavey is loaded with a Peavey Pro 18. 400 watts RMS, 95 dB and 3" voice coil.I'm the biggest Peavey fan around, but I wouldn't use the PV118s over a single quality 1x18.Also the Carvin cab is plywood and ten pounds lighter than the MDF Peavey. Beware when comparing a simple number without all the important data that tells you how valid or applicable that simple number may be. First of all, without knowing a LOT more about the Carvin driver, there's no way to say it's an Omega Pro. The specs depend on the resultant box tuning. 3" voice coils may be just as good or better performers than 4" VC's. I will have to say that the plywood is a big plus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted July 13, 2007 Members Share Posted July 13, 2007 Based on its appearance and ratings, I think it's safe to say that the Carvin driver used in that box is at least very similar to the Omega Pro. I suppose it is entirely possible that Carvin talked Eminence into building a speaker that looks exactly like the Omega Pro, but told them to go cheap on the voice coil since no one sees that part. You're right, it is impossible to know, but I wouldn't bet against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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