BBE stuff

[Majoria]

I asked this question a while back, I believe in this forum but maybe in the recording forum, yet I can't find it with the search function.

 

Some GC salesman a while back tried to sell me a BBE Sonic Maximizer, I ran it past the forum and was basically told to skip it. What I'm can't recall is the details and rationale behind why it isn't worth it. I thought it was since it was to tone what Auto Tune was to pitch. Anyone want to throw in some insight? For a basic setup are they really that bad? Or just bad for an experienced sound guy who can do better with a trained ear?

[Danny (NS::U)]

 

I asked this question a while back, I believe in this forum but maybe in the recording forum, yet I can't find it with the search function. Some GC salesman a while back tried to sell me a BBE Sonic Maximizer, I ran it past the forum and was basically told to skip it. What I'm can't recall is the details and rationale behind why it isn't worth it. I thought it was since it was to tone what Auto Tune was to pitch. Anyone want to throw in some insight? For a basic setup are they really that bad? Or just bad for an experienced sound guy who can do better with a trained ear?

 

 

I think that the main beef with them is that they just aren't the "magic for free" that some folks think they are. If the top or bottom end of a PA system's frequency response is lacking, or there are clarity problems overall, then a sonic maximizer is just a band aid. It can help a little bit, but one is far better off fixing the real problem.

 

You can fake "big boom" to a point - but it really comes from more PA.

 

You can fake "extended HF response" to a point - but it really comes from better HF drivers and horn designs.

 

You can phase shift various frequency ranges to make transients sound bigger - but bigger transients really come from more PA.

 

That's my opinion.

 

I've never felt that I needed a sonic maximizer. I've always felt that a PA was either designed to do something (or not do it), and that applying more signal processing wasn't actually going to make the PA go outside of its design limits (thought it might fool me and others for a while, to be sure.)

[stunningbabe]

Ditch the BBE. It'll hurt the sound more than you realise. It's nothing more than a marketing gimmick.

[agedhorse]

Blaaaaat... (don't know how to translate this sound to a forum post )

[moody]

Nothing that wouldn't be better served by better speakers, better eq or better microphones.

[TimmyP]

At best: I've never heard a Maximizer/Exciter do anything that one could not do about as well with EQ.

 

But in the real world: I've yet to hear one make an improvement, no matter how cheezy the system. When I encounter one on a briefcase gig, I patch around it if possible, and bypass it if I can't patch around it.

[ezstep]

I have found that the BBE sounds much better changing recorded music than it does changing live music. When you run your CD through it, you are hearing it at it absolute best. Unfortunately, it doesn't do the same when you run your band through it.

 

Once you learn to set up your equipment and eq properly, you will have no need of it. (Not saying that you don't know how, but most people asking about BBE's are noobies.)

[twostone]

Depends on the application our drummer has a PA system that he uses a dual BBE for his system which works pretty decent for a pair dual 15" JBL he owns. He doesn't own any FOH eq accept what's on the Mackie consoles channel strip along with a BBE works just fine. Most will tell you that their not needed but guess without a good FOH eq in line it works.

[Craig Vecchione]

I have no need for them. But some folks swear by 'em.

 

You could buy it at GC and try it out, since they have a 30-day return policy. Find out if there's a restocking charge, and decide if that's a worthwhile investment to know if you want it.

 

I'm sure this thread will devolve into the same bickering that every other sonic maximizer thread has!

[Gregidon]

... I'm sure this thread will devolve into the same bickering that every other sonic maximizer thread has!

No, your mom!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:poke:

 

[Craig Vecchione]

:mad:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[InACanProductions]

I was using one as an effect, but never on the whole mix. Come to think of it though, I haven't been using it lately and don't really miss it, maybe it's time to take it out of the rack and put that space to better use. I've seen a BBE used in guitar and bass rigs in the FX loop with some good (and some bad) results, worked great on my old guitarist's Peavey 5150.

[ckcondon]

I have one and have switched it to monitor duty. My singer has a hard time explaining what he wants, and it's easier for me to point at 2 knobs and say "you figure out what you want"!

I'm on an in-ear system, so I can't eq monitors on the fly.

I know real sound engineers dislike these things, but for those of us who mix from the stage, it can be useful.

there's "snake oil" everywhere, so listen to the pros, but also trust your ears! and

[Gregidon]

 

I have one and have switched it to monitor duty. My singer has a hard time explaining what he wants, and it's easier for me to point at 2 knobs and say "you figure out what you want"! I'm on an in-ear system, so I can't eq monitors on the fly. I know real sound engineers dislike these things, but for those of us who mix from the stage, it can be useful. there's "snake oil" everywhere, so listen to the pros, but also trust your ears! and

 

 

and?

[tlbonehead]

If your heart longs for the piezo horn sizzle, you can fake that tone with them.

[FNBand]

I've seen this question on this forum many times and I'll tell you my take on it....

 

One. Don't ask sound guys their opinion of BBE

 

Good sound guys hate it because it is designed to do what they can do, only not as well as them. Basically, wasted rack space and signal clutter since they can get a better sound without it.

 

Bad sound guys hate it because it does what they can do, and better. It tends to make them feel 'unloved' and 'incompetent'.

 

I used one when I started running PA for our band and it worked great since I was new to the game and couldn't tweak an EQ like some guys can. We got another guitarist in the band who ran sound for many years. He laughed at it and patched around it. Me and the other guitarist could hear it lacking something, but he said it sounded great without it. I patched it back in one night and we sounded great. He got several compliments on how good the sound was and was on cloud nine. He later found that it was patched back in and removed it from the rack for good. Things were never the same again.

 

Use it if you are not good enough to get a good sound by yourself. If you're lucky to have a good soundman, skip it so other sound guys don't laugh at your setup.

[ckcondon]

 

and?

 

Sorry, the "and" was a leftover!

[tlbonehead]

 

I've seen this question on this forum many times and I'll tell you my take on it.... One. Don't ask sound guys their opinion of BBE Good sound guys hate it because it is designed to do what they can do, only not as well as them. Basically, wasted rack space and signal clutter since they can get a better sound without it. Bad sound guys hate it because it does what they can do, and better. It tends to make them feel 'unloved' and 'incompetent'. I used one when I started running PA for our band and it worked great since I was new to the game and couldn't tweak an EQ like some guys can. We got another guitarist in the band who ran sound for many years. He laughed at it and patched around it. Me and the other guitarist could hear it lacking something, but he said it sounded great without it. I patched it back in one night and we sounded great. He got several compliments on how good the sound was and was on cloud nine. He later found that it was patched back in and removed it from the rack for good. Things were never the same again. Use it if you are not good enough to get a good sound by yourself. If you're lucky to have a good soundman, skip it so other sound guys don't laugh at your setup.

 

I'm a guitarist and I can't stand them. I guess if the person running the PA has such a tin ear that they can't tell what needs to be adjusted, maybe the enhancer will accidently be set right to help a horribly dialed PA.

[Gregidon]

Sorry, the "and" was a leftover!

 

[Scodiddly]

I seriously doubt that a BBE would (on average) improve a badly-tuned PA system. Most badly-tuned systems either have the "smiley face" (aka "DJ") EQ on the graphics, an accumulated graphic EQ setting over many shows of either every fader all the way down or all the way up, or the EQ settings from the house guy's previous gig with a totally different system and room. None of those would be "improved" by anything short of the drastic and unthinkable step of just setting everything flat and starting over.