Members LBOIV001 Posted September 2, 2008 Members Share Posted September 2, 2008 I am running a Peavey JSX Joe Satriani head into a Hughes & Kettner 412 cab. In the past I have always just mic'd the speaker, but I am curious about using the 1/4" line out from the back of the head (converting to XLR with a coupler so it will fit the snake) AND miking the speaker as well. I need some tips, hints, ideas and opinions from any and all experienced road dogs that can reply. I play country/southern rock/dance/funk and occasionally metal (the JSX head can do it all!) I play a Laguna swamp ash strat with custom alnicos and a tap coil humbucker. I run a Carl Martin Quattro analog effects pedal in the loop, if that is relevant. Thanx in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members moody Posted September 2, 2008 Members Share Posted September 2, 2008 ok. No. 1 don't use an xlr coupler to go to the snake. Instead get yourself a direct box so that you can go in with a jack, out with an xlr. The reason for this is that a balanced line is better for long runs, also I don't know what protection your direct out has against phantom power - but a direct box will have no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rwhealey Posted September 2, 2008 Members Share Posted September 2, 2008 To do this, you will need a direct box. This clears up any issues with mismatched impedances and deals with the aforementioned balanced/unbalanced problem. Here's a couple of DI's: These three are always contenders for the "best DI ever":http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/JDI/http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/JDI/http://www.fullcompass.com/product/247407.html And here's a cheaper one that I hear still gets the job done (Plus EWI is a great place to buy from):http://www.audiopile.net/products/DI_Boxes/FDB-101/FDB-101_cutsheet.asp I would stay away from a the Behringer DIs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted September 2, 2008 CMS Author Share Posted September 2, 2008 You should always convert the unbalanced outputs of a guitar or preamp to balanced signals if you're going to run cables longer than about 20 feet or so. This will reduce noise problems. Depending on the signal level of the 1/4" output, you may be able to use a passive DI box to handle this conversion. Simply use a short guitar cable into the DI, and an XLR from there to your snake. You might want to experiment with inserting the DI between your guitar and the amp, or at the end of the effects loop, just before you return it to the amp. These options would give you a "clean" or an effected, but lower than line level signal. This can be mixed at the console with your mic'd signal for more tonal variation from the front-of-house....it's not uncommon for the sound engineer to desire less effects in FOH than you think you may need...especially if you use delays and 'verbs indoors. Edit: Sorry for any redundancy...I moved this thread from your duplicate thread. I'll delete that thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted September 2, 2008 Members Share Posted September 2, 2008 From the JSX manual: LINE OUTThis 1/4" mono (TS) jack provides a post-power amp signal to drive another power amp/speaker system while maintaining the amplifier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted September 2, 2008 Members Share Posted September 2, 2008 That would be an attenuated post power amp signal:) In the old days we used to just plug out of the extension speaker jack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted September 2, 2008 Members Share Posted September 2, 2008 To do this, you will need a direct box. This clears up any issues with mismatched impedances and deals with the aforementioned balanced/unbalanced problem.. Yep! It will also prevent any problems that might arise should phantom power get shoved back into your amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted September 2, 2008 Members Share Posted September 2, 2008 Shouldn't the direct box be of the active type for this application? "red box" Passive DI on guitar rigs sounds like ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mshifflett Posted September 2, 2008 Members Share Posted September 2, 2008 It sounds like if you are going to use that jack to go out of to the board, you should think about slapping a cabinet emulator, that can handle a load, between it and the board. Just a thought. I wouldn't think you would get a real great tone from the output of that jack alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members karlw Posted September 2, 2008 Members Share Posted September 2, 2008 It sounds like if you are going to use that jack to go out of to the board, you should think about slapping a cabinet emulator, that can handle a load, between it and the board. Just a thought. I wouldn't think you would get a real great tone from the output of that jack alone. +1 I'm surprised no one else mentioned this before you did. The speaker plays a HUGE role in the sound of an electric guitar. You may find that for certain types of sounds/songs, the direct signal COULD be used. But those will be few and far between. For most, you'll find the sound to be way screechy, since the typical guitar speaker gives you a bit of bass, a load of midrange (no flat, mind you) and next to no highs. It's a filter, and has time domain effects (changes the phase relationships between frequencies) and distortion all it's own. -Karl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Real MC Posted September 2, 2008 Members Share Posted September 2, 2008 Most line outs from guitar amps take the signal BEFORE the power amp. The power amp - especially tube power amps - play an underrated role in the tone of your amp. If your line out is pre-power amp, you're missing out on a lot of tone. H&K makes a Red Box DI that is designed to work with guitar amp speaker outputs. I use one on my rig and it sounds way better than the line out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted September 2, 2008 Members Share Posted September 2, 2008 Most line outs from guitar amps take the signal BEFORE the power amp. The power amp - especially tube power amps - play an underrated role in the tone of your amp. If your line out is pre-power amp, you're missing out on a lot of tone.H&K makes a Red Box DI that is designed to work with guitar amp speaker outputs. I use one on my rig and it sounds way better than the line out. It adds speaker emulation too, which helps the sound immensely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted September 2, 2008 Members Share Posted September 2, 2008 What the heck? Are my posts invisible? Shouldn't the direct box be of the active type for this application? "red box"Passive DI on guitar rigs sounds like ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassred Posted September 2, 2008 Members Share Posted September 2, 2008 What the heck? Are my posts invisible? Nope, I saw it... just too late, the Redbox has been a staple tool that lots of guitards use, it actually can sound decent, but really test your rig out this way, as a lot of guitar tone s the interaction with the speaker, so I've heard only a few direct outs that actually sounded 'good'...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted September 2, 2008 Members Share Posted September 2, 2008 Correct. Hence the reason to not use a passive DI on the direct out of a guitar rig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members surferbeto Posted September 3, 2008 Members Share Posted September 3, 2008 I use a THD Hotplate attenuator (which also has a good-sounding DI line out) with my Fender SuperSonic amp. The attenuator is a power soak for the speaker, so you can turn the amp up to get good tone, but still turn the volume down as low as you like. Or you can set it on "load" and still get line out signal but hear nothing at all out of the speakers. The line out is post-power amp, so you get the good tone of both the pre-amp and the power amp stages of your amp. When you use the attenuator to take the output way way down, the speaker sound gets thin and fizzy, but what you hear on the line out still sounds great. I mostly play in a church where we really need to keep the stage volume down. It sounds good and works really well for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 3, 2008 Members Share Posted September 3, 2008 Some line outs have speaker emulation (of varying degrees) already included, so you may want to look a little deeper into this or call Peavey tech support to find out. All the DI outs (including the 1/4" unbalanced) on our amps include reasonably good speaker emulation. How good depends on what type of cabinet you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted September 3, 2008 Members Share Posted September 3, 2008 the amp my guitard uses is a marshal 100w tube. Does this amp have emulation? If so, what do I need to do to make it NOT sound like ass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted September 3, 2008 Members Share Posted September 3, 2008 the amp my guitard uses is a marshal 100w tube. Does this amp have emulation? If so, what do I need to do to make it NOT sound like ass? maybe you have a nut loose on the fretboard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 3, 2008 Members Share Posted September 3, 2008 the amp my guitard uses is a marshal 100w tube.Does this amp have emulation? Don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted September 3, 2008 Members Share Posted September 3, 2008 the H&K Redbox works pretty well, as does the Radial box. It's important to note that mic'ing the speaker and running a DI of some kind together can make for some pretty interesting(read poor, phase cancelled) tone out front and really gives you nothing extra to play with that a properly mic'd amp by itself won't accomplish. You want better tone, get a ribbon mic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soul-x Posted September 3, 2008 Members Share Posted September 3, 2008 the amp my guitard uses is a marshal 100w tube.Does this amp have emulation? A lot of newer Marshalls have speaker emulated outs. It depends on the model. My opinion on the couple that I have heard is that they don't sound very good, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 3, 2008 Members Share Posted September 3, 2008 A lot of newer Marshalls have speaker emulated outs. It depends on the model. My opinion on the couple that I have heard is that they don't sound very good, though. I was thinking of the more traditional variety Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted September 3, 2008 CMS Author Share Posted September 3, 2008 Regarding all this talk about speaker emulated outs;...the OP is mic'ing the cab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 4, 2008 Members Share Posted September 4, 2008 He was asking about going direct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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