Members mtmra70 Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 Todd, Digital broadcast isnt going to do squat for "piracy". 720p "digital" rips of TV shows are available the same night they are shown - analog has nothing to do with piracy. And consumers ARE looisng with the lack of competition. As soon as Sony bought/paid enough labels to go Blu-Ray, HD-DVD dropped. Now we are all stuck with over priced Blu-Ray discs that don't work in half the players without at least a firmware upgrade every six months. On top of that they keep changing the standard and the Blue-Ray players from last year wont work with next years discs. boomer, The switch to color didnt do anything to B&W owners I had a black and white TV with rotary dials in the 90s - it was easily 20 years old and was able to watch color NTSC signals with no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Chinese Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 Todd, Digital broadcast isnt going to do squat for "piracy". 720p "digital" rips of TV shows are available the same night they are shown - analog has nothing to do with piracy. And consumers ARE looisng with the lack of competition. As soon as Sony bought/paid enough labels to go Blu-Ray, HD-DVD dropped. Now we are all stuck with over priced Blu-Ray discs that don't work in half the players without at least a firmware upgrade every six months. On top of that they keep changing the standard and the Blue-Ray players from last year wont work with next years discs. boomer, The switch to color didnt do anything to B&W owners I had a black and white TV with rotary dials in the 90s - it was easily 20 years old and was able to watch color NTSC signals with no problems. Well, you're actually dead wrong on that. The industry does not, and has never cared about off air recordings, at least in the analog world...There's always signal degredation. So how did piracy become so widespread? simple. Crooked Projectionists in movie theaters. People getting their hands on Prints. people who got screeners, then rip DVD's. all of those are potential leaks before the Film or show is released. I have personal experience in this. When I was mixing in Thailand, the security officer of TCS called and asked me to go into the markets of Bangkok and find a copy of a film I had worked on. They were investigating a pirated film, and the DVD had not been released. So I went out and found a copy. My mix was clear as day on the disc, but was obviously recorded off a soudnhead in a projection booth. The Picture was a Canadian Print, with Canadian French Titles. Both Analog. Digital, however, can have DRM embedded, Watermarks, and also with on-demand type delivery ssytems, the actual asset stays in control of the studio or entity delivering it, thus reducing the opportunity for Piracy. I'm also privy to few things coming down the road that I'm somewhat restricted talking about, but suffice to say the field will change somewhat. As for Blu-Ray - that's going to be a very short lived format, relatively speaking, IMO. There's too much competition from on-Demand, iTunes, etc... and Judging by what were seeing here in terms of investment, I'd have to say the studios agree somewhat. Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scodiddly Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 Well they certainly helped the digital media corporations by forcing by law everybody to switch over to digital whether they wanted to or not. Meanwhile, the rest of us will have to fork over $3.5 billion dollars of our own money to pay for the switch over (the coupons only cover about half the actual costs) so fat cats can get even fatter. Remember that you don't "have" to watch TV. You don't even have to own one. TV is a lifestyle choice, not the law. And yeah, I haven't had a TV for three years now. When it's on in a bar or the gym I might watch a show, but I marvel at all the ads and not-so-subtle social programming (ie telling you what you should eat/drink/wear/drive if you don't want to be a social outcast) and how most people don't seem to notice how manipulative it all is. EDIT: Yeah, I know. I don't usually preach about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mtmra70 Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 Well, you're actually dead wrong on that. The industry does not, and has never cared about off air recordings, at least in the analog world...There's always signal degredation. So how did piracy become so widespread? simple. Crooked Projectionists in movie theaters. People getting their hands on Prints. people who got screeners, then rip DVD's. all of those are potential leaks before the Film or show is released. The point I was trying to make is the current DIGITAL rips are from sources that have access to digital signals prior to any DRM/encryption being applied or by running hardware receivers that defy DRM/encryption (free-to-air for example). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Chinese Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 The point I was trying to make is the current DIGITAL rips are from sources that have access to digital signals prior to any DRM/encryption being applied or by running hardware receivers that defy DRM/encryption (free-to-air for example). Ahhh...no not really. What you're implying is that the studios and servicing companies are pirating this stuff... And although that does happen, it's not the largest prevalent avenue. I can't go into too much more detail, (I'm bound by NDA's) but the problems are elsewhere in the chain. What will be interesting is if the industry will take a heavy handed approach or figure it out that piracy will never go away, and to alter the business model. Todd A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 boomer, The switch to color didnt do anything to B&W owners I had a black and white TV with rotary dials in the 90s - it was easily 20 years old and was able to watch color NTSC signals with no problems. Yeah ... I know. I was being a little metaphorical to the Luddite nature of the of his post:thu: Maybe he's not actually listening to 8 tracks ... maybe 4 tracks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted January 30, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 My analog TV works perfectly fine. What make and model is that TV? How old is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mtmra70 Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 What you're implying is that the studios and servicing companies are pirating this stuff... And although that does happen, it's not the largest prevalent avenue. I guess I can live with that What will be interesting is if the industry will take a heavy handed approach or figure it out that piracy will never go away, and to alter the business model. They will never learn and it will never go away. Thankfully and unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NewTruth Posted January 31, 2009 Members Share Posted January 31, 2009 How did you feel when TV switched over to color ... wished you still had your B&W? Sometimes to improve technologies you just have to cut off legacy units. That's all that happened here. These big corporations would simply go and make some other products ... that's what they do. If no one was willing to purchase these new technologies they wouldn't put them on the market. Something to remember should they just happen to save thousands of lives in the event of emergency. As far as broadband ... I'm sure you'd think differently if you lived in some fly-over part of the country and had dialup. The list of benefits for us all goes on and on. Remember that while you're listening to your 8-track;) and if you don't like the high resolution on your TV you can always smear the screen with Vaseline. Ahem, I don't mean to be disrespectful, but it's obvious you either didn't read what I actually posted or you need to work on your reading comprehension. :poke: All the technology switches you mention happened through the market. This is happening by law. Understand the difference? The first allows choice, the second is backed up with fines for any broadcaster that doesn't do the switch over. And my other point was, we, as in the public, as in the majority of people, have to fork over money ($3.5 billion dollars) out of our own pockets, to buy new technology to replace technology that works just fine so that a tiny minority of already rich people can get even richer. And you're o.k. with that? Well, as they said while the Roman Republic was dissolving into the Roman Empire, as long as the People get their bread and circuses, they won't care. Or, as a famous American captain of industry said, "Never give a sucker an even break." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NewTruth Posted January 31, 2009 Members Share Posted January 31, 2009 What make and model is that TV? How old is it? It's a Sony and it's about eleven years old. The only 'problem' it has is that it take two or three seconds before the picture reaches maximum brightness. But since I don't have the attention span of a four year old on Ritalin it doesn't bother me. I can wait. Really, I actual can. Oh, and I do have a HD LCD TV because I expected that I wouldn't be able to get any reception in a couple of weeks, so I'm not really a Luddite. High definition broadcasts? Ain't worth the money I spent on the new TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NewTruth Posted January 31, 2009 Members Share Posted January 31, 2009 Thus, why the broadcast industry went to congress - so we don't have a masssive VHS vs Beta or Blu-ray VS HDDVD type of battle, where consumers completely lose. Consumers completely lost on either of those battles? Maybe a little in that Beta was a better format, but then again VHS was cheaper. People preferred cheaper over better. As far as Blu-ray vs HDDVD, I didn't lose anything in that battle because I waited until the smoke cleared before buying any equipment. I suspect that a lot of other people did the same. The only people who lost out were the early adopters. But then, nobody forced them by law to accept either Blu-ray or HDDVD. That's the gist of my gripe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mtmra70 Posted January 31, 2009 Members Share Posted January 31, 2009 I suspect that a lot of other people did the same. The only people who lost out were the early adopters. But then, nobody forced them by law to accept either Blu-ray or HDDVD. sorry, but people are STILL losing out on blu-ray, even the non-early adopters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NewTruth Posted January 31, 2009 Members Share Posted January 31, 2009 Remember that you don't "have" to watch TV. You don't even have to own one. TV is a lifestyle choice, not the law. Yes, your correct about that. But you are also making a logical error here by implying it's an all or nothing decision, i.e., a false dilemma. Yes, I don't have to watch TV. But if I do choose to do so, why does my freedom of choice end there? Which is what you are implying by the above statement. Nothing in life (or perhaps I should say) few things in life are an all or nothing affair. But the Digital TV law ends my freedom of choice, not because it's necessary (like Congress legislating on the units of measurement as outlined in the Constitution because otherwise commerce and public safety would be in jeopardy). But rather, because it's profitable for a privileged few who have sway in Congress. And that too is a lifestyle choice, not an entitlement. Understand what I'm trying to say? And yeah, I haven't had a TV for three years now. When it's on in a bar or the gym I might watch a show, but I marvel at all the ads and not-so-subtle social programming (ie telling you what you should eat/drink/wear/drive if you don't want to be a social outcast) and how most people don't seem to notice how manipulative it all is. I absolutely agree with you here. I mainly watch DVDs, but there are a few shows that I enjoy too. Not that I couldn't do without them. But again, that's my choice, to watch or not watch. Not somebody in Washington or somebody in some executive office's choice at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NewTruth Posted January 31, 2009 Members Share Posted January 31, 2009 sorry, but people are STILL losing out on blu-ray, even the non-early adopters. O.K., I'll take your word for it. But it didn't happen by act of Congress at the behest of some slime ball lobbyists shilling for their corporate overlords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members srp72ee Posted January 31, 2009 Members Share Posted January 31, 2009 Maybe he's not actually listening to 8 tracks ... maybe 4 tracks! Hey now, I still have an old 3M reel to reel 4 track. I have sealed new metal tapes and even a spare set of replacement vacuum tubes! It weighs about 150 lbs. I'm sure it will come back someday. :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mtmra70 Posted January 31, 2009 Members Share Posted January 31, 2009 O.K., I'll take your word for it. But it didn't happen by act of Congress at the behest of some slime ball lobbyists shilling for their corporate overlords. Right. It happened by Sony paying the major studios to go with blu-ray....lol I'm not sure I prefer either scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Chinese Posted January 31, 2009 Members Share Posted January 31, 2009 Right. It happened by Sony paying the major studios to go with blu-ray....lolI'm not sure I prefer either scenario. Well....it's not so simple. On the Content Distribution side, Sony Dominates the HD Video delivery. There are entire formats of which you most likely aren't aware exists...and Sony produces much of this hardware. So Sony gets a disporportionate voice in the 'biz. So yeah, in a way they made it financially attractive for studios to go Blu-Ray, but it wasn't like it was underhanded or anything, it's just good business. And it goes much much deeper than Blu Ray Vs HDDVD Todd A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mtmra70 Posted January 31, 2009 Members Share Posted January 31, 2009 I certainly know they dominate pro video world - I love my DVCAM and other broadcast cameras I have - wish I could afford a HDCAM or XDCAM camera. They do good with pro stuff, they just like to screw people on the consumer side of things (blu-ray, root kits on CD, RIAA, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 31, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 31, 2009 Don't get me started on Sony and thier superior formats but stupid (IMO) business models. I was a beta test site for SDDS, and ran the first SDDS screening of SDDS using the 2 projector firmware. The first commercial premiere was "Wolf" and we screened it for the California Film Comission and the California Legislature. Ended up buying the SDDS unit after they made us a deal but down the road Sony walked away from the format and now I own a $15k piecse of junker hardware. By far the most common way for films to be black-marketed is a camcorder in the auditorium. Via the projectionist is very uncommon, as most do not have access to a film chain imager. Screeners (DVDs) are not common because there are watermarks throughout and many can be traced to a serial number and back to who got the screener so that's pretty secure as any responsible reviewer who is likely to get a screener will not screw around with it due to liability which is huge. We do a lot of press shows screening new releases and since we have a 20+ yeartrack record of doing this, we don't get the security people watching over our shoulders at every screening but many (or most) theatres do. The studios have a stable of trusted venues (way too much to lose to even risk screwing around with this kind of thing) and they tend to do the bulk of the confidential work. I have also done daily screenings, and again the studios tended to stick with trusted venues and personel. The film distribution model is very complicated, everybody wants a piece of the action and if you buy into the wrong "standard", you stand to lose a lot of money without any control over the process. It's politics and money. That's why I have not bought into any of the propriatary HD digital projection systems and servers, still stuck in the past using 1k projection and DVD or whatever playback the media requires, and component video connections. Everything can be presented or converted easily to this format. When the studios stop bickering over "who's got the ball" and "who's the man", I will revisit digital projection with a better attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Chinese Posted February 1, 2009 Members Share Posted February 1, 2009 Don't get me started on Sony and thier superior formats but stupid (IMO) business models. I was a beta test site for SDDS, and ran the first SDDS screening of SDDS using the 2 projector firmware. The first commercial premiere was "Wolf" and we screened it for the California Film Comission and the California Legislature. Ended up buying the SDDS unit after they made us a deal but down the road Sony walked away from the format and now I own a $15k piecse of junker hardware.By far the most common way for films to be black-marketed is a camcorder in the auditorium. Via the projectionist is very uncommon, as most do not have access to a film chain imager. Screeners (DVDs) are not common because there are watermarks throughout and many can be traced to a serial number and back to who got the screener so that's pretty secure as any responsible reviewer who is likely to get a screener will not screw around with it due to liability which is huge. We do a lot of press shows screening new releases and since we have a 20+ yeartrack record of doing this, we don't get the security people watching over our shoulders at every screening but many (or most) theatres do. The studios have a stable of trusted venues (way too much to lose to even risk screwing around with this kind of thing) and they tend to do the bulk of the confidential work. I have also done daily screenings, and again the studios tended to stick with trusted venues and personel. The film distribution model is very complicated, everybody wants a piece of the action and if you buy into the wrong "standard", you stand to lose a lot of money without any control over the process. It's politics and money. That's why I have not bought into any of the propriatary HD digital projection systems and servers, still stuck in the past using 1k projection and DVD or whatever playback the media requires, and component video connections. Everything can be presented or converted easily to this format. When the studios stop bickering over "who's got the ball" and "who's the man", I will revisit digital projection with a better attitude. Dude, you would be surprised how many Films get pirated at the projection booth - think outside the U.S. Yeah, SDDS was a mess, I can blame you for being bummed on that one. Then Dolby outmaneuvered them on the AC3 thing as well. What I'm seeing on content is a movement that's narrowing down - WM9 and Apple ProRes are both good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Real MC Posted February 1, 2009 Members Share Posted February 1, 2009 I could care less about the switch to digital. I threw out broadcast and cable TV out the window back in 2000. There is nothing on the idiot tube except garbage and ads, ads, ADS. Entertainment value is very low and it is a poor source of news and weather. I am much happier kicking the idiot tube out of my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 2, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 2, 2009 Much of the pirated films are shot w/ a CamCorder. Not saying a film chain copy doesn't get made from time to time, but that's not the primary way from what I understand. I have seen the Camcorder stuff, awful, simply awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members caseyjf Posted February 2, 2009 Members Share Posted February 2, 2009 O.K., I'll take your word for it. But it didn't happen by act of Congress at the behest of some slime ball lobbyists shilling for their corporate overlords. There are about a thousand other things that Congress does that should concern you more than a DTV switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Chinese Posted February 2, 2009 Members Share Posted February 2, 2009 Much of the pirated films are shot w/ a CamCorder. Not saying a film chain copy doesn't get made from time to time, but that's not the primary way from what I understand. I have seen the Camcorder stuff, awful, simply awful. Well...that's changed. Camcorder used to be and still is common, but there are entire foreign hosted websites that have HD quality stuff on them. The thing is that almost all films are being done with Digital Cinema, and that means Hard Drives and files.... Times have changed, unfortunately the piracy gets smarter and better. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 2, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 2, 2009 Times have changed, unfortunately the piracy gets smarter and better. T And I completely agree, it's too bad. With the security that we have at our screenings (some are bonded events, where there may be a bonding or sureity company involved) I don't see how it would be possible at the exhibitor level. Heck, they sometimes carry guns and everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.