Members kevinnem Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 ok, so I ordered the distro. But now my brother says he wants to occasionally borrow/rent it from me. He has a Crown Macro Tech 3600vz. So would I just need to tell them to add a nema tt-30 receptical to the distro? Is that when teh amps have on them? ... I heve never seen a TT myself. All the macros I have seen have had thier plugs switched to a more run of the mill type. Maybe he is useing 30 amp. If so normal or twist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tsaldana3 Posted June 22, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 the manual, http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/amps/136707.pdf , says it has a "NEMA TT30P" and googled it and got....So I guess I need one of these added? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevinnem Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 a quick phone call might be in order. This is, I don't think, a very common connector. Either your guy has his own distro with these, OR he has small converters, OR he has replaced the end. Kev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 Found this on Ebay:Not trying to advertise; just credit my source: http://cgi.ebay.com/Crown-MA5002VZ-Macro-Macrotech-amps-in-mint-cond-MA_W0QQitemZ220437471975QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item335318e2e7&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A10|66%3A3|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tsaldana3 Posted June 22, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 I googled MAcrotech 3600vz plug and got this. so I guess it is the receptacle I need. And I hate my brother's tendency to not answer the phone. I haven't been able to get ahold of him all day.He did tell me that the plug his amp had didn't have normal prongs. They were in the shape of a V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted June 22, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted June 22, 2009 Out in the real world this is simply an RV plug. 30amp, 120v. "TT" stood for "travel trailer" IINM. You can find scads of stuff to fit these at any RV supply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted June 23, 2009 Members Share Posted June 23, 2009 These adaptors exist, which might be something to consider if the amp isn't heavily loaded:http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RV-ELECTRICAL-ADAPTER-PLUG-30A-FEMALE-15A-MALE_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ65Q3a12Q7c66Q3a2Q7c39Q3a1Q7c72Q3a1205Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem5185b98895QQitemZ350135879829 BTW: I'm curious about how your brother usually plugs in his Crown MA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 23, 2009 Members Share Posted June 23, 2009 That's a non-NEMA configuration... best avoided. How about just a NEMA L5-30 twistlock? That's standard everywhere and UL listed for that application. I don't recall the rec vehicle connector to be listed for anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted June 23, 2009 Members Share Posted June 23, 2009 BTW: I'm curious about how your brother usually plugs in his Crown MA? Me too cause those adapters can't be the "normal" way to plug those amps in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted June 23, 2009 Members Share Posted June 23, 2009 Me too cause those adapters can't be the "normal" way to plug those amps in. Actually, I believe it is. I believe my MA-3600's actually came with the adaptors and Pass & Seymour 3830 receptacles. Many/most MA-5000's and 3600's I've seen in operation had either the cord ends changed to 20A Edisons or some twistlock end... or were running the adaptors. None that I've seen were using the 30A 125V trailer plug straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevinnem Posted June 23, 2009 Members Share Posted June 23, 2009 Actually, I believe it is. I believe my MA-3600's actually came with the adaptors and Pass & Seymour 3830 receptacles. Many/most MA-5000's and 3600's I've seen in operation had either the cord ends changed to 20A Edisons or some twistlock end... or were running the adaptors. None that I've seen were using the 30A 125V trailer plug straight. yes, this is exactly my point ....... guys - quote all teh pics you want - I KNOW they did come with the TT plug, the issue is no one uses that plug - you have to remeber these were the first of the "big" amps, and they were figuring stuff out as they went. All Macros I have seen have had this end replaced. Usally with the l5-30 amp twist. Kev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KF650SB1000 Posted June 23, 2009 Members Share Posted June 23, 2009 All my Macro's TT30 plug ends got chopped off and replaced with a 5-20 plug. one time I sent a 5000 in for service with the chopped plug and Crown didn't replace the cable or mention anything about it to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tsaldana3 Posted June 23, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 23, 2009 Ok, so i spoke with my brother. He says his 3600 does have the TT30, but he has been using an 20 amp adapter. He says that it works, but he does trip breakers once in a while. So should I still get the tt-30 recepticle or should i have something else installed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevinnem Posted June 24, 2009 Members Share Posted June 24, 2009 Ok, so i spoke with my brother. He says his 3600 does have the TT30, but he has been using an 20 amp adapter. He says that it works, but he does trip breakers once in a while.So should I still get the tt-30 recepticle or should i have something else installed? somthing else.. TT-30 I GUESS is a 30 amp end. (PLEASE PLEASE confirm this). I would get the 30 amp L14-30 conections. This is a 4 wire (2 live N G), simply do not use one of the live poles, and make a converter, to go in to the TT 30. The reason I sugest this is that the L14-30 can be used to feed a second complete distro unit, with 60 amps of power. Also, in terms of resale and comapitblity, the tt30 is worthless (IMO), 30 amp twist is the standard for amprack (single phase for the small guys like me, and 3 phase for the big shows). Talk to ampshop, Jim will be able to sort this all out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted June 24, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 somthing else..TT-30 I GUESS is a 30 amp end. (PLEASE PLEASE confirm this). Yup, it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 24, 2009 Members Share Posted June 24, 2009 Don't use the L14's, all phase assignments should be at the distro breakout, not in the amp's plug. The L5-30 is the proper plug/recept to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevinnem Posted June 24, 2009 Members Share Posted June 24, 2009 Don't use the L14's, all phase assignments should be at the distro breakout, not in the amp's plug. The L5-30 is the proper plug/recept to use. The issue I see is that down the road, that L5-30, is not going to be very useful. I am trying to sugest a solution that will not have to be "fixed" when teh gear changes (and eventally will). Surely there is a way to drop a leg on the L14, and wire it in to e female TT-30 in a safe and legal way. IF we can use the L14 now, and get the converter made by a professionial, then we don't have to deal with a "how can I use this L5-30 thingy - I have a pair of tin snips and lap cord" situations. My reasoning is this - 1) IF the risk of blowing a 20 amp breaker is unacceptable, then use a 30 amp. 2) IF your useing a 30 amp make it L14(if you're a small company) or L21(if you're large) All of this is barring it being LEGAL and SAFE to go from L14, and leave 1 leg dead at the converter end bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrJoshua Posted June 24, 2009 Members Share Posted June 24, 2009 I'd be leery of using plugs to determine which leg the load was on simply from a load-sharing standpoint. When I plug something in I want to be able to look at it and know where the power is coming from, not say "I think I remember wiring that plug to use this side..." If the L5-30 won't be useful down the road, then an electrician can replace it with a more useful outlet and appropriate breaker.Just my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Keyrick Posted June 24, 2009 Members Share Posted June 24, 2009 The (L)14-30 series is for a 125/250 volt application. The (L) 5-30 series is for 125 volt application. The amp in question is a 125 volt application. If you use a 14 series plug, you can make it work, but it can also cause confusion for someone not familiar with your particular solution. That is never a good thing. Put in both if you want to, but the 5 series is the proper plug for this amplifier application. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 24, 2009 Members Share Posted June 24, 2009 The L5 is the correct, legal and proper plug/recept for the application in the USA. I don't know what you guys use in the frozen north. L-14 offers no upgrade path IMO and is a much more expensive connector too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevinnem Posted June 25, 2009 Members Share Posted June 25, 2009 The L5 is the correct, legal and proper plug/recept for the application in the USA. I don't know what you guys use in the frozen north.L-14 offers no upgrade path IMO and is a much more expensive connector too. Although you are much much more informed then I am in these matters, and for all intents and purposes the laws and regulations are the same in canada and the "hot south", I still do not understand your logic. If you want to use a 30 amp plug USE THE TT -30 THAT IS ALREADY THERE. Why reinvent the wheel? Jim at amp shop can install it for you , and it is good to go out of the box. The same argument still applies, that in the future to make it usable for other stuff you need to hire an electrician to swap it out for you. What I am saying is that lets not by a distro that is pre wired to work with nothing. -- crown don't use the L5-30, so you will still need a converter. And what else do you think he has that uses L5 ? ... nothing. I completely disagree about the upgrade path, in fact this is by far the best up grade path. The L14-30 is second only to the 50 amp range in popularity for shows at this level. I have seen them used all the way up to and includeing arena shows; this form of power transfer is useful until you hit the 3 phase systems at which point it is swaped out for it "3 phase brother" the L21-30. If one WAS to choose the L14-30 connector, you are now set up to run a 30 amp cable to a second distro, to feed lighting, or "stage power" or any one of a number of things. I do not know any reason why droping a single leg, in a split phase system (single phase) would be cause for any concern, everything would be normal wiring up to the "converter" to use the TT-30, and there you would drop the leg. - however we are talking about a custom converter anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 25, 2009 Members Share Posted June 25, 2009 The TT is NOT a standard legal connector for non rec vehicle use, in fact it's listed for this purpose only. It's not a NEMA format, and the NEMA style non-twist would be a NEMA 5-30. I do not know why Crown uses this connector. The NEMA L5-30 is a very common connector, and universally available everywhere. The L-14 should be broken out to L-5's at the point of use. I do not think it's even possible to get a UL listing on a product with a L-14 and a dropped leg. There's no standard, which leg do you use, how do you breaker it, break it out etc. All L14's must be protected by a 2 pole breaker with common trip. So when 1 leg fails the other is shut down. It's a code reqt. in both US & Canada. The L14 should not share a neutral with a dimmed lighting load, bad practice that can cause hum. Power amps must be supplied from a circuit breaker protected by a branch breaker of no greater than 20 amps (15 amps for CSA listed products) unless specifically listed for use and provided with a connector for use with a larger branch circuit. This is commonly ignored and when there is a failure it can be more severe. The authorities are starting to crack down on this. For good reason. Kevin, you need to trust me on this. You are seeing only a very small part of the picture. I deal with UL and CSA regs. all the time in my power system design work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted June 25, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 Do we know for certain that Crown was selling these amps with the TT-30 installed? Is that amp UL-listed? That would be a paradox...the cordset must meet UL requirements and as Andy points out, the RV connectors do not have a listing for other than RV supply use (and IMHO they are woefully inadequate for that too). So does anyone have direct experience with an out-of-the-box new Crown having the TT-30? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted June 25, 2009 Members Share Posted June 25, 2009 The Crown MacroTech5002VZ manual (online at Crown right now) on page 11 shows a picture of what I think is the TT-30 you guys are discussing. It appears they did ship with that connector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted June 25, 2009 Members Share Posted June 25, 2009 So does anyone have direct experience with an out-of-the-box new Crown having the TT-30? Yes, both the Crown MA-3600's and MA-5000's I purchased came new out of the box with the TT-30 cord ends. Also included factory packed with the amps were Pass & Seymour model 3830 30A 125VAC "trailer receptacles". The TT-30 cordends on the amplifier power cords were molded on the cord, with these words embossed on the cord ends: MHRV ALBION, IN 30 A. 125 V. Additional information possibly of interest to those who might change the cord end to something more conventional: The AC power cord on the amplifiers is 10 AWG 3/C Type SOW-A with an over-all outside jacket diameter of approx. 0.635" (requiring a fairly large cable size capacity cord end if retrofitting). I believe the conductors within the AC power cord are color coded: Green: Ground Brown: Load Blue: Neutral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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