Members gonzobassman Posted August 7, 2009 Members Share Posted August 7, 2009 About monitors.I now (finally) have 4 wedges.All are Yamaha w/15s.The "newest" are Club V series.A 4-channel amp(2-space) would save me a couple of rack spaces.As I'm trying to do the all self contained,pre-wired rig,rack space is starting to get like ocean front property.Anyway,the best value I've found is a Carvin DCM 1204.It features 4-200 watt "sides" at 8 ohms.This with a couple DBX 231s and I will have 4 seperate monitor mixes with eq all in 6 rack spaces.Peavey has a couple of offerings in this vein,but don't show quite as much power.I think 200 watts per wedge should be plenty,but I'm still really new to this aspect of the business.I know Carvin is not a highly recommended brand in these parts,and indeed I have no love for them,but I cannot remember ever having a problem with a Carvin power amp.Any thoughts,insights,or suggestions would be greatly appriciated.As always,thanks guys!:thu:BTW,I'm also considering 2- QSC GX-3s.100 watts more per channel,and 8-rack space total(with eqs),and only slightly higher in cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dedmeet Posted August 7, 2009 Members Share Posted August 7, 2009 Ok, let's do the math: The Peavey CS 800x4 is rated 180W per channel continuous into an 8 ohm load. The amp is 4U high and weighs 44 pounds. A Yamaha Club 5 wedge driven at 180W has a theoretical output of 121.6 dB. The Carvin DCM 1204 is rated 200w per channel continuous into an 8ohm load. The amp is 2U high and weighs 23 pounds. A Yamaha Club 5 wedge driven at 200W has a theoretical output of 122dB. So, let's compare: The Carvin is lighter and not as tall. The difference in output levels from the wedges with either amp is less than 1dB, so the 20W difference is not a factor. The Peavey amp has a better reputation for durability. Cost: About $849 for the Peavey and about $449 for the Carvin. I am not qualified to give opinions on sound quality as I have not used either amp personally. Now, you have to decide which of these factors are most important to you and decide accordingly. I am an unabashed fan of Peavey reliability and would probably go for the Peavey CS 800 x 4, but others may and probably will differ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 7, 2009 Members Share Posted August 7, 2009 There are other amps with better performance amd lighter that would be a better choice IMO. They are also more expensive. The QSC CX404 is one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted August 7, 2009 Members Share Posted August 7, 2009 I mentioned in another similar thread, that I have Carvin's powered mixer with the same amp in it. It's been reliable for me and has enough power for most speakers to serve monitor duty. We've had it hooked up to some inefficient Nadys and it didn't do so well, but those Yamahas should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted August 7, 2009 Moderators Share Posted August 7, 2009 I just got rid of a carvin power amp that I had for some years. It was very dependable for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soul-x Posted August 7, 2009 Members Share Posted August 7, 2009 The more comparable Peavey amp to the Carvin would be the Powermode 4, which is not rated for 2 ohm operation. It does have a built in crossover. I don't quite know where the information that the CS800x4 is 4 rack units came from. It is 2 units high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted August 7, 2009 Members Share Posted August 7, 2009 Of those mentioned, I'd go with the GX3's personally. If you're buying 2 you may be able to strike a slightly better deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soul-x Posted August 7, 2009 Members Share Posted August 7, 2009 Of those mentioned, I'd go with the GX3's personally. If you're buying 2 you may be able to strike a slightly better deal. Likewise. Another option if space is at a premium might be two PS-802s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted August 7, 2009 Members Share Posted August 7, 2009 I actually swapped in two RMX850's into the amprack of a band I BE for last night. If it was my rig I would have gone for the Carvin I think. Alto has one for ~$340 but I think even I wouldn't trust a class-d amp at that price - only 17.4 lbs though : http://www.musiciansbuy.com/alto-d2.html The two amps cost $200 each used (both mint) and the Carvin has the same exact power in half the size and 1/3 the weight for only about 10% more and new to boot. Unfortunately they already had three RMX2450's and an old QSC 1400 so I wanted to "match up" what they had by replacing one of the 2450's and the 1400 - the remaining 2450's are for the mains and subs. I think I did lose 10lbs but still about 190lbs for the rack w/casters (ouch!). Will probably sell the now extra RMX2450 for what was paid for the two used 850's so a zero cost "upgrade" . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted August 7, 2009 Members Share Posted August 7, 2009 Likewise.Another option if space is at a premium might be two PS-802s I owned one and used on monitor duty for several years. Loved the amp for it's form factor, but didn't like the fact it has no limters. I could get it to go into clip pretty easily at "show volumes". When it clips, it sounds pretty awful. Also most have stupid banana plug/binding post speaker connections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted August 7, 2009 Members Share Posted August 7, 2009 I owned one and used on monitor duty for several years. Loved the amp for it's form factor, but didn't like the fact it has no limters. I could get it to go into clip pretty easily at "show volumes". When it clips, it sounds pretty awful. Also most have stupid banana plug/binding post speaker connections.+1000 on not running amps with no clip limiters. While I never saw or heard the QSC 1400 clip it had a couple 100wrms "spot" monitors hung off it and just a matter of time to blow them in an "accident" - the keyboard player likes to switch off his mic and swing it right into the monitor when not in use . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 7, 2009 Members Share Posted August 7, 2009 Those little hotspot monitors are roughly 50 watts RMS (regardless of what they advertise) and a pair of them would be sharing ~300 watts (assumingthey are the 16 ohm version) or 150 watts per box when the "accident" occured. That's 3x the RMS rating of the speaker and a limiter set at the amp's rated power wouldn't have helped. If they were the 8 ohm version, that would have been 250 watts per box or 5x the RMS rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted August 7, 2009 Members Share Posted August 7, 2009 Those little hotspot monitors are roughly 50 watts RMSThese are actually crap Toa floor monitors that have mounting sockets. Each is on a stand 2-3 feet away from the Keyboardist's and Drummer's right ears. I actually want to series wire them somehow as 150w into a monitor that close to your ear is "not a good thing" . Actually last night in demoing what a DBX AFS224 can do for your GBF I hit the limiters hard (not with feedback ) and blew the keyboardist off his stool - hope no permanent damage was done . BTW the other four monitors are a pair of 350wrms Wharfdale LX-12ME's and a pair of older EV 12's (250wrms?) that are a bit more bullet proof . BTW the Wharfdale's really sound excellent . Those four are kinda stupid big and heavy though . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boomerweps Posted August 7, 2009 Members Share Posted August 7, 2009 I tend to go for the space and weight saving models, when possible. 200 watts per monitor seems a little low power for me. Then again having 4 seperate mixes using those Yammys seems overkill. Hope you are or have a seperate soundguy for the band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members patman0322 Posted August 7, 2009 Members Share Posted August 7, 2009 What about just 2 separate racks? Each with a 2-channel amp and a dual EQ. You can stack them and still get most of the convenience of having them racked together but you'd have the flexibility to separate them for whatever reason - you still gotta run 4 lines to the monitor rig either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted August 7, 2009 Members Share Posted August 7, 2009 200 watts per monitor seems a little low power for me. Then again having 4 seperate mixes using those Yammys seems overkill. Hope you are or have a seperate soundguy for the band.Plenty of power for a small stage if you all plan on still having hearing in five years . Actually easier to mix monitors from the stage than FOH . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted August 7, 2009 Members Share Posted August 7, 2009 What about just 2 separate racks? Each with a 2-channel amp and a dual EQ.Each of my own power amps is in a separate Gator GR-2L case so's I can carry them myself. The EQ should be with the mixer, not with the amps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mike M Posted August 8, 2009 Members Share Posted August 8, 2009 I use a crown xs4300's (28lbs.) for four monitor mixes....Yes, I'm a "crown man...user..." and my amps have worked flawlessly for me since the mid 80's...I currently use one xs4300 to drive the horns in my Yorkville tx4 rig and use an additional xs4300 for monitors....no complaints thus far....not rock monitors...just way-too-loud monitors...IMHO....My clients have always been pleasedxs4300's do come around on ebay from time to time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gonzobassman Posted August 8, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 8, 2009 I use a crown xs4300's (28lbs.) for four monitor mixes....Yes, I'm a "crown man...user..." and my amps have worked flawlessly for me since the mid 80's...I currently use one xs4300 to drive the horns in my Yorkville tx4 rig and use an additional xs4300 for monitors....no complaints thus far....not rock monitors...just way-too-loud monitors...IMHO....My clients have always been pleasedxs4300's do come around on ebay from time to time.... How much power per channel? I'll probably just stick with 2- GX-3s.Eventually I'm gonna have to split it all up anyway,but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted August 8, 2009 Members Share Posted August 8, 2009 I got my Peavey CS 800X4 used; found it and jumped at it. I got it and it's great for me. Buying new.... if I really had the money to spend, new mixer but I couldn't pass up the deal. So, those that cry about retail prices, start looking, I live in SOUTH DAKOTA!!! Nowhere near a major city but I find deals all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gonzobassman Posted August 8, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 8, 2009 Checked the specs on that QSC CX404 and I think you may have a winner there Andy!Even if its slightly higher than 2 GX-3s! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 8, 2009 Members Share Posted August 8, 2009 Checked the specs on that QSC CX404 and I think you may have a winner there Andy!Even if its slightly higher than 2 GX-3s! PM me, I might be able to help you out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lifeloverwg Posted August 8, 2009 Members Share Posted August 8, 2009 I have had the Carvin DCM1204 in our rack now for most of the summer, but we have only provided PA on four gigs with it so far. Pros; light weight and low price. I got it as a factory blemish model with full warranty for $300. Cons; 1/4" inputs and a mix of 1/4" outs plus two NL4's. I hate 1/4" connections! It is also noisier at idle than the QSC PLX1202 it replaced. No matter what the gain, there is now a small hiss present. The QSC CX404 does show up on Ebay, I know because I missed two of them that went in the $550 range before I settled for the Carvin. Winston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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