Direct Box recommendation

[Reddog1]

I need a recommendation for a direct box for my bass player to run through the pa. Sometimes we run through the out on his amp, but from time to time run into some kind of ground issue, so we use the direct box. The whirlwind we have been using is dead, too much wear and tear I guess, I picked it up on ebay a used a few years back. I cant see any loose connections inside, so we are getting a new one, just wanted some recommendations from some of you that have experienced different brands. Thanks.

[allexcosta]

Little money = EWI

Big money = Radial JDI

[RoadRanger]

If the out on his amp works but you get hum sometimes a 1:1 isolation box AKA hum eliminator would be better than a DI. I have one of these:

http://www.zzounds.com/item--ARTDTI

[The Real MC]

If his bass has passive electronics, get an active DI.

 

If his bass has active electronics, get a passive DI.

 

I know it sounds backwards, but it has to do with output impedance of the guitar. Get it the wrong way around and you lose volume and tone.

[Reddog1]

 

If his bass has passive electronics, get an active DI. If his bass has active electronics, get a passive DI. I know it sounds backwards, but it has to do with output impedance of the guitar. Get it the wrong way around and you lose volume and tone.

 

 

my next question was passive or active, so you already answered it, thanks.

[TimmyP]

Audiopile.net or Radial Pro series.

 

Passive for instruments with active outputs, active for instruments with passive outputs.

[Barisaxman2000]

Anything wrong with an active DI for a bass player with active pickups? I've used exclusively passive in the past, but almost every bass player I've worked with has an active PU instrument. My old passive died as well and I figured I'd get a EWI active as long as there is no impending problem using it in both situations.

[Stingray5]

What about a SansAmp Bass Driver DI by Tech 21. I use it when I record mostly, but I take it to every gig, just in case my amp should fail, which did happen to me once.It's a handy unit to have around.

[Scodiddly]

 

Anything wrong with an active DI for a bass player with active pickups? I've used exclusively passive in the past, but almost every bass player I've worked with has an active PU instrument. My old passive died as well and I figured I'd get a EWI active as long as there is no impending problem using it in both situations.

 

 

You'd be OK doing that. "passive with passive" is the combination you want to avoid.

[MainEventSound]

We use:

 

Passive: Radial JDI

Active: Countryman Type 85

[Barisaxman2000]

 

You'd be OK doing that. "passive with passive" is the combination you want to avoid.

 

 

That's what I thought, thanks for confirming it.

 

I see lots of recommendations for the bass driver DI, but it has a big mid scoop built in that I really dislike, as would some bass players (like me) who favor something a bit more transparent.

[agedhorse]

You might pay a small noise penalty using active with active.

[dasani19320]

I've been playing with this little guy:

 

http://www.zzounds.com/item--MAC402VLZ3

 

It's actually a Mackie 4 channel mixer for $100.00. It has a footprint of about 6 in wide x 8 inches long.

 

The thing is quiet as hell as a DI; and takes care of the active or passive issue. The outputs are balanced or unbalanced. It gives quite a bit of control over boost or cut of the signal; and a two band eq on each channel.

 

I have two of them. One is being used as a 4 channel headphone mixer for my inear system on drums. I use one channel for a drum monitor mix and a second channel for a click track input. No matter how loud I have the click track, there isn't even the slightest bleed into the main mix.

 

The second 402 is used for my bass player's signal. With the balanced out, we're running a 20' mic cable to a 100' snake. No hum, or any other kind of garbage, gets into the mix. And the signal is pretty damn hot.

 

They're small enough that I have them hardwired and velco'd onto a two space rack shelf in my monitor rack.

[agedhorse]

dasani, the input impedance is not high enough to work well with a passive bass or guitar according to Mackie's spec sheet. They state 10k for line or instrument, perhaps the instrument input is refering to level and not impedance. Or, it's possible that in their attempt to be "cool" in their marketing approach, they made a mistake in the specs. A real active DI has a different front end with an input impedance of around 1M ohm to reduce loading on the pickups.

 

Also the outputs are unbalanced but sort of emulate a balanced signal with impedance matching of the ring output. The ring does NOT carry the out of phase signal that a true balanced signal would. There is also potential for latch-up or other problems if phantom power happened to land on it's output, Mackie has had problems with this in the past too.

 

Also, there's no effective isolation, so if you have ground loops or other common mode noise, it's not going to help and may likely make things worse. A direct box provides galvanic isolation via an audio transformer, the only connection (other than a liftable audio ground) between the source and the PA is isolated by a magnetic field across an isolation barrier/gap.

 

While it's a cute product, and suitable for small or home recording appications, it's not something that I would recommend for live applications. If presented with one, I would feed it's outputs into a passive (transformer isolated) DI and never take the outputs non-isolated.

[dasani19320]

agedhorse;

 

I appreciate your digging for specs; but, to me, specs are sometimes like blinders. It's a good baseline to start from; but, someone can get so caught up in them that they don't even try something that may work. In my case, I've been using it 4 to 6 gigs a month for the past few months without an issue. It's whisper quiet, in the setup I described, with plenty of signal.

[agedhorse]

 

agedhorse; I appreciate your digging for specs; but, to me, specs are sometimes like blinders. It's a good baseline to start from; but, someone can get so caught up in them that they don't even try something that may work. In my case, I've been using it 4 to 6 gigs a month for the past few months without an issue. It's whisper quiet, in the setup I described, with plenty of signal.

 

 

In YOUR particular set-up, with yor gear, your instruments, etc.

 

MY experience is based on a very wide variety of applications, those that are likely to be encountered with different equipment setups, different PA's, differen power distribution scenarios, different instruments etc.

 

I can say for sure (as in fact) that a 10k input impedance will sound terrible for most passive basses and certainly for acoustics with passive piezos. It's completely wrong and not suitable.

 

I am coming from the point of view of somebody who designs this very equipment for a living and also has 30 years of pro audio & touring experience. I know when something is unlikely to deliver consistent results for anything but a narrow set of circumstances.

[Barisaxman2000]

 

You might pay a small noise penalty using active with active.

 

 

Thanks Aged, I don't suppose you have a quick and easy explanation as to why that is the case (for my own good)? Normally I use the DI built into my Carvin BX600 amp, but in some venues seems to introduce noise into the signal (whether the ground lift is engaged doesn't seem to mattter). Sticking a passive DI in line has always solved the noise issue, but since I'm thinking of using both passive and active basses on stage in the near future, I'm hoping for a one-stop solution.

[dasani19320]

Aged,

 

FYI, the thing that was not written in the spec sheet is that two of the channels have a DI Switch; which changes the input impedence from 10k to 500k. The independent reviews I read, before I bought it, touted the ability to take either passive or active instruments.

My bass player has both active and passive guitars. We're using it as sort of a sub-mix. One channel is selected as a line level signal and the other as an instrument level. So, there isn't a requirement to transfer the cable when he changes guitars.

 

On the output, the psudo -signal on the ring is limited by a resistor. Pin 2+ will be at a higher level than pin 3- because of the load on the ring; but, common mode still works as long as the console on the head end does a true inversion/sum; which most do. Granted, after the summing, the + signal will be a bit reduced beause of the subtracted inverted phase on pin 3; but, that can be boosted at the input gain stage on the main console.

 

As far as Phantom power: I agree; a single, across the board, phantom power switch is an evil thing and should never be used IMO. On all the equipment I've owned, I've always disabled the switch; either mechanically or electrically. Those that use them eventually learn an inconvienient, and somewhat expensive lesson. A little up front education will avoid that nasty lesson. It isn't just Mackie equipment that blows up devices; any phantom power on an incorrectly interfaced device will blow it up.