Got my new EWI case today... a little bummed out...

[Craig Vecchione]

I just shake my head when the overly obvious seems to get totally ignored.

 

 

This thread annoys me. I'm going to avoid any more detail tonite, as I'm tired.

[Gomer Pyle]

I could write a book on my bad UPS experiences. I'll tell some good stories when I get more time. Here's a quickie though, Back when I was building race motors and heads for NHRA and bracket racers all over the US, I shipped a cast iron 340 manifold back to the customer that I needed for flow testing his heads. I always overpack everything and double box Uhaul double wall boxes with styrofoam. When the guy received the manifold all the carb studs were bent over as if someone took the mani out of the box and beat them all with a 5lb sledge. They once lost a COD check for $530 that they claimed they had received from my customer and took almost 6 months to get it to me. Here's my top three list of things I hate the most in this world.

1 The Dentist

2 Mowing the lawn

3 UPS

[Coaster]

 

This thread annoys me.

 

 

this is very funny to me. i am smiling inside.

[Craig Vecchione]

this is very funny to me. i am smiling inside.

 

Then my work here is done.

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

I could write a book on my bad UPS experiences.

 

FWIW, here's my theory on the possible reasons for UPS damage in shipping, or what I understand of how their system possibly commonly functions, which influences how we (as a shipper) design and execute our packaging methods.

 

I am of the understanding that initially (1930's until approx. 1990) UPS did not, and legally could not, transport packages weighing in-excess of 70 lbs. ea. Also, during that time I believe UPS was strictly business to business shipping, and the total quantity of packages shipped one business address to another in any given day could possibly not exceed 70 lbs. total weight. IOW: For approx. 60 years, UPS handled a lot of small packages, which dictated the sorting and handling methods developed over that time being engineered to handle a lot of small packages.

 

In approx. 1990, possibly the ICC, who possibly regulated the weight, size, quantity and business to business regulations UPS (and other parcel carriers) operated under (so the parcel carriers would not compete with the freight business)... the ICC relaxed the strict no-compete with freight rules, opening up the market for residential based shipping and deliveries, and upped the weight limit to 150 lbs, and eliminated the cap on quantity and total weight of packages shipped to any one destination in a day. As a side-note: about this time FedEx Ground was formed. I believe initially UPS upped their weight per package acceptance somewhat above their previous 70lb. limit, but possibly due to a lot of factors, including the possibility that they realized their systems weren't really set-up for significantly heavier than 70 lb. packages, and resistance by their teamster union drivers to handle heavier than 70 lbs. packages, I don't believe UPS initially upped the weight to the 150lb. max. But emerging competition from FedEx Ground, who did embrace significantly heavier than 70lb. packages, raised the bar. Eventually both UPS and FedEx extended their acceptance of package weight to the full 150lb. limitation. Also, during this time, the internet started to emerge, along with eBay... resulting in the emergence of a lot more consumers shipping and receiving packages via UPS (and FedEx Ground). Problem was that UPS was geared up with billions of dollars worth of semi-automated infrastructure designed and constructed to handle lots of little packages... so the equipment and methods that worked well for quickly and efficiently sorting and transferring lots of small packages (belt conveyors, slides, air actuated sorting gates, etc...) was inundated with a bunch of big/heavy packages... and paraprofessional shippers packing Tiffany lamps in duct taped beer boxes, while at the same time packing and shipping crankshafts from vintage tractors (packed in duct taped beer boxes)... oftentimes to customers who are used to buying in retail stores (where everything on the shelf is in perfect condition). The UPS damage in shipping claims escalated.

 

I do believe UPS is making concerted efforts to update their systems to minimize the damage in shipping claims... but cost effectiveness probably plays into their updating decisions as I'd imagine it's more cost effective to pay a few more damage in shipping claims for awhile than to over-night rip out billions of dollars worth of equipment that hasn't reached the end of it's lifespan and replace it with updated equipment ahead of schedule. I also believe FedEx Ground generally has a lower noise floor with damage in shipping claims, due in-part to FedEx Ground handling fewer packages, and FedEx Ground hand sorts more than UPS, and the FedEx Ground sorting facilities are generally newer and were possibly designed and built with to handle 150lb. packages. I do believe UPS does a better job of picking up and delivering, due to the UPS drivers being career teamster drivers where-as the FedEx Ground drivers I believe are generally private contractors, or private contractor employees... resulting in the UPS drivers generally driving the same route for years, or decades where-as the turn-over with the FedEx Ground drivers is generally a lot more frequent than the UPS drivers.

 

Therefore, it

[Axisplayer]

Mark, that is good info. I probably ship 1-2 packages a year but get them regularly so the pickup part is all new to me, but the delivery condition part is not (unfortunately.)

 

That said, the neighbor across the street from me is a jet pilot for Fedex on the international routes. He frowns at me a LOT when he sees the UPS guy drop stuff at my door, so I try to patronize his employer as much as possible for good relations with the folks that watch our house whenever we travel....

 

From my point of view, I have had many more issues with timely deliveries that were actually left at my house or mis-delivered somewhere else by UPS. Fedex gives much better service in my area, but when I miss a delivery their shipping center is about 1.5 hours away, and UPS is about 15 minutes away. seems like I can't really win with either. I do see far less damage from Fedex though, as you note.

[Craig Vecchione]

I worked in IT for UPS back in the 90's. The damage issue was a LOT more about pissed-off hub sorters/loaders than it was machinery damage. Drivers are Teamsters and have a pretty decent contract even if they're whipped like rented mules. Hub personnel are UPS employees with no representation (or at least, weren't represented back then), who were whipped like rented mules. Eventually, the beatings without compensation will get to anyone.

[Gomer Pyle]

A old band mate of mine drove for UPS for 12 years in Chicago and he said the belts would jam up and packages would be falling off by the dozens and the workers would stand around like nothing was wrong. He also said if a package said fragile, they would intentionally throw it on the ground or against a wall.

[BillESC]

Speaking with customers all over the country, it seems to be an area thing. One company will excel in one location while the other will be preferred in another. In my area, UPS is the carrier of choice. Before the economy turned sour we were shipping more than a thousand dollars of freight a week.

 

IF you ever have a package arrive damaged KEEP ALL OF THE PACKAGING MATERIAL. The carrier will want to see it along with the damaged item.

 

I recently shipped a LED strip fixture to a theatre in MN, the customer sent me pictures and the box was both trashed and soaking wet. UPS paid the claim and we had the check in 3 days. They also returned the strip to us and guess what? It works perfectly.

[Dogoth]

In response to Mark (without quoting a whole page of text).

 

I think that in most areas Fed Ex is all subcontractors (vehicle & all) whereas UPS owns the vehicles & pays the drivers as employees.

 

I's agree about UPS reliability (it's very good).

 

I recently had a small package shipped to me via some super budget UPS sceme. UPS picked up the package and took it to their nearest sort facility. It was then deliveres to the USPS to be delivered via Parcel Post to the UPS sort facility in my town. UPS then finished the delivery to my door (like 3 weeks later :>(

 

I guess they figured it was cheaper to pay the Govt subsidised Post office to do the long haul. It was a seriously slow frustrating shippment (the tracking was a joke :>).

[IsildursBane]

 

In response to Mark (without quoting a whole page of text). I think that in most areas Fed Ex is all subcontractors (vehicle & all) whereas UPS owns the vehicles & pays the drivers as employees.

 

 

That's FedEx Ground, which is not the same as FedEx Express. AFAIK, FedEx Express is similar in organization to UPS.

 

-Dan.

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

I recently had a small package shipped to me via some super budget UPS sceme. UPS picked up the package and took it to their nearest sort facility. It was then deliveres to the USPS to be delivered via Parcel Post to the UPS sort facility in my town. UPS then finished the delivery to my door (like 3 weeks later :>( I guess they figured it was cheaper to pay the Govt subsidised Post office to do the long haul. It was a seriously slow frustrating shippment (the tracking was a joke :>).

 

 

Interesting.

 

I believe our local UPS driver on MOL a daily basis delivers packages to our post office, which, as I understand it, those packaged are USPS parcels... long haul transported by UPS, for local delivery by the USPS.

 

I guess they figured it was cheaper for the Govt subsidised Post office to pay UPS to do the long haul.

 

Humm... The Postal Service long hauling UPS's stuff, and UPS long hauling The Postal Service's stuff. It's like living in logging country, and watching traffic on the highway... an endless parade of logging trucks going both directions hauling what looks to be basically the same type of logs.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

I recently had a small package shipped to me via some super budget UPS sceme. UPS picked up the package and took it to their nearest sort facility. It was then deliveres to the USPS to be delivered via Parcel Post to the UPS sort facility in my town. UPS then finished the delivery to my door (like 3 weeks later :>( I guess they figured it was cheaper to pay the Govt subsidised Post office to do the long haul. It was a seriously slow frustrating shippment (the tracking was a joke :>).

 

 

That's "UPS Mail Solutions". Fedex calls it "SmartPost". You need to talk to the people selling you the item they shipped...they're the ones going for this super-cheap and {censored}ty way of delivery. It's optional. Normal ground shipping does not go off the ranch.

[stangconv]

Since we are on the topic of UPS...

 

NEVER ship anything from the US to Canada UPS.

 

They totally rape you at the border with their "Brokerage fees"

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

ALL OF THE PACKAGING MATERIAL.

 

 

Speaking of which (all of the packing material)... we recently had a damage in shipping claim (with UPS)... the packaging was UPS certified, so getting reimbursed for the damage in shipping claim was fairly straight-forward, but during the communication with UPS involved with processing the claim, UPS suggested we use "Instapak" type foam-in-place material rather than the styrofoam packing peanuts we use to cushion the contents within the package. This "Instapak" stuff is a chemical activated foam in a plastic bag, that when heated and activated, expands... well... around the contents of the package. I've never used this stuff before, but I crunched the numbers, and for some of our parcels, it looks like it might be somewhere in the ballpark of what the peanuts are costing us, and might work considerably better... and be less messy for our customers to deal with on the other end.

 

Does anyone here have any experience using this "Instapak" stuff... and if so, where and how to use it to get good results? And what's involved with getting set-up, and what's the good/cost effective product to use?

[monkeyland]

 

to the UPS drivers being career teamster drivers where-as the FedEx Ground drivers I believe are generally private contractors, or private contractor employees

 

 

so UPS drivers are union men? that alone is enough to make me want to ship fed ex

[Craig Vecchione]

so UPS drivers are union men? that alone is enough to make me want to ship fed ex

 

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

that alone is enough to make me want to ship fed ex

 

 

I am a self employed business owner. I have a gut disdain for unions (and government) possibly not exceeded by anyone on this forum.

 

Having said that, I'm way impressed by the UPS drivers who service my account on a daily basis, and I'm so unimpressed by the (independent) FedEx Ground driver (and his independent route owner boss) who... well... "services" my account... I could spit nails.

 

Something has to be the cause of the night & day difference. Is it The Teamster's Union, is it UPS management? I dunno... all I can tell you is there's a world of difference judging from my limited perspective.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Teamster Union I believe. I am a self employed business owner. I have a gut disdain for unions (and government) possibly not exceeded by anyone on this forum. Having said that, I'm way impressed by the UPS drivers who service my account on a daily basis, and I'm so unimpressed by the (independent) FedEx Ground driver (and his independent route owner boss) who... well... "services" my account... I could spit nails. Something has to be the cause of the night & day difference. Is it The Teamster's Union, is it UPS management? I dunno... all I can tell you is there's a world of difference judging from my limited perspective.

 

 

You'll possibly both hate to read this, but UPS is a very good example of excellent cooperation between a union and an employer. The drivers are paid well, have good benefits, and they work their asses off, as you've witnessed. UPS is a very well-run, old-school corporation. Mark, you'd probably be happy working there. I was.

[BillESC]

Mark,

 

Maybe GPS hasn't found you yet.

[Ryan.]

I've only worked for one union and I hated it.

 

I think that unions had their place at one time in the U.S. (fighting so 8 year olds didn't have to work with heavy machinery, and stopping 16 hour work days...) BUT, now it seems that union members need to form NEW unions just to protect themselves from their OLD unions!

[Ryan.]

Teamster Union I believe. I am a self employed business owner. I have a gut disdain for unions (and government) possibly not exceeded by anyone on this forum. Having said that, I'm way impressed by the UPS drivers who service my account on a daily basis, and I'm so unimpressed by the (independent) FedEx Ground driver (and his independent route owner boss) who... well... "services" my account... I could spit nails. Something has to be the cause of the night & day difference. Is it The Teamster's Union, is it UPS management? I dunno... all I can tell you is there's a world of difference judging from my limited perspective.

 

 

Oh and Mark, I'll be picking up a snake reel from you soon thanks to Liz and the great service you folks provide.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

I've only worked for one union and I hated it. I think that unions had their place at one time in the U.S. (fighting so 8 year olds didn't have to work with heavy machinery, and stopping 16 hour work days...) BUT, now it seems that union members need to form NEW unions just to protect themselves from their OLD unions!

 

 

Unions still have a place. Some employers will take as much advantage of employees as they can. Just ask anyone with a job today...have their responsibilities increased lately as coworkers are laid off? Has their pay increased commensurately? How about benefits....does anyone not in a union still have fully paid benefits? A pension? How about being intimidated into working holidays and weekends "to cover" for non-existent employees for shifts that the Co won't hire for?

 

My last "on-call" stint, I logged over 60 hours. None of the "overtime" was planned...I get a text message at 2am, and work. Sunday at 8am, I work. Having dinner? Shopping? Tough {censored} pal, get on it.

[Ryan.]

 

Unions still have a place. Some employers will take as much advantage of employees as they can. Just ask anyone with a job today...have their responsibilities increased lately as coworkers are laid off? Has their pay increased commensurately? How about benefits....does anyone not in a union still have fully paid benefits? A pension? How about being intimidated into working holidays and weekends "to cover" for non-existent employees for shifts that the Co won't hire for? My last "on-call" stint, I logged over 60 hours. None of the "overtime" was planned...I get a text message at 2am, and work. Sunday at 8am, I work. Having dinner? Shopping? Tough {censored} pal, get on it.

 

 

Its true its true. Employers especially in these times will take advantage. Its important for workers to be on their game so employers know that they can't take advantage because they'll lose the talent, (of course in a year when there are 5 people waiting to take your job its tough). But I just know that unions are now full of so much money and can be so corrupt it doesn't seem like their interest is in protecting anyone but themselves.

 

The union I worked for was grocery, I watched lazy workers get promoted based on time with the company and good workers moving on to jobs where they'd get paid what they deserved. All the while our union leader Jack Lovell was having his Hummer, Corvette, and Lambo serviced at my buddies GM shop... kaching!

[kmart]

My last "on-call" stint, I logged over 60 hours. None of the "overtime" was planned...I get a text message at 2am, and work. Sunday at 8am, I work. Having dinner? Shopping? Tough {censored} pal, get on it.

 

You CHOSE to take an 'on call' position, did you not?

Or were you grabbed unwillingly from your homeland and sold into slavery/indentured servitude?

 

Don't get me wrong; I'm quite sure it was a {censored}ty gig to never be able to plan ME time, but I have also NEVER understood why somebody would take an on-call position in the first place...and then get tweaked when they were...called while 'on'.

:poke:

 

Now if you weren't paid extra for that on-call work time and the terms of the job were that you should have been, that's a whole other story. Personally, I wouldn't stay at any job that wouldn't pay me for what I was supposed to be paid for...would rather take unemployment and search for a lesser paying gig that paid what it was supposed to.