Members Tomm Williams Posted November 1, 2010 Author Members Share Posted November 1, 2010 Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 1, 2010 Members Share Posted November 1, 2010 The one thing that might help is carpeting the stage floor. Easy to try and helps with intelligibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted November 1, 2010 CMS Author Share Posted November 1, 2010 Any suggestions on how to accomplish that? I'm not a horn player so I don't have much insight as to how they play. Would gating the surrounding mics help? And again, I want to state that I have a workable situation now, It's just that I know it could be better. I think the quality of the performers makes it worth my while.TW Carpet in front of the horns, as Andy suggests. And talk to the musicians. I played horns (trumpet and trombone) back in the day, and dynamics are as much a variable under their control as any other instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 1, 2010 Members Share Posted November 1, 2010 gates would NOT be part of any viable solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted November 2, 2010 Members Share Posted November 2, 2010 I have a VSM300 and I think it is amazing. http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-TCE-VSM300XT-LIST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted November 2, 2010 Members Share Posted November 2, 2010 Pictures? Carpet is definitely worth a try. I played a stage in a casino that was fairly horrendous. It had a vinyl floor or some such thing. About a year ago they finally got wise and laid down carpet. Much better for most of us, except maybe the drummers, not much bounce to the sound. Also, assuming the drums aren't a problem, could the drums be center and the horns and the strings on either side, or do the musicians perform the way they are oriented at rehearsal? Perhaps there are other seating configurations that might work - of course that could backfire, and someone else would be unhappy. And... you would own the new problem, hmmmm forget that idea.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gadget Posted November 2, 2010 Members Share Posted November 2, 2010 I have a VSM300 and I think it is amazing. http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-TCE-VSM300XT-LIST That is a great price for the VSM300 XT. I haven't used them yet but they will be my next personal monitor purchase based on what I've read and the recommendations in this forum. They seem to be a solid product. Back to the issue in this thread... I would not use personal monitors to solve this issue. Seems like carpet, new seating arrangement and getting the horns to get their volume in line with the rest of the group. AH has the right idea (as usual), "it's better forcing the musicians to listen to each other acousticly rather than start a new battle of what goes into each monitor." Is there a director for this group? If so, it's his responsibility to balance the volume from each section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 2, 2010 Members Share Posted November 2, 2010 I would be more concerned about starting a battle that can not ever be won, and ending up with even more dis-satisfied musicians. Sometimes you just have to force the compromise that's least likely to blow up in your face. Damage control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted November 2, 2010 Members Share Posted November 2, 2010 I would be more concerned about starting a battle that can not ever be won, and ending up with even more dis-satisfied musicians. Sometimes you just have to force the compromise that's least likely to blow up in your face. Damage control. Started to realize just that in my last post. Right now it's "the trumpet player's fault". Try to solve the problem too vigorously and it's now "the soundman's fault". If one is good at manipulating people so that they come up with the ideas one wants them too, that's fine, becuase they own the idea. Otherwise anything too radical can reflect badly on the soundtech. Maybe that's a chance that a tech wants to take, maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted November 2, 2010 Author Members Share Posted November 2, 2010 As usual, thanks for all the great input. I know the conductor very well and we get along just fine. I will have a talk with him about my observations as the sound guy and see if it helps. I will also suggest some carpet in front of the horns. One last question before I lay this to rest: As of now, I'm micing the strings with 3 sm81's, one in the center of each of the three rows suspended about 3' over the center instrument. I would like to bring the strings up in the mix and am wanting to individually mic each instrument with a beta98 mounted at the bridge. Even though I would be going from 3 mics to 9, should I expect similar GBF because I am close/contact micing rather than distance micing? TW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 2, 2010 Members Share Posted November 2, 2010 GBF will be higher but now you have changed the potential for problems from 3 to 9. Also, individual player's dynamics issues will be more pronounced. It's like adding a lot of cost, effort and hardware for little no no overall gain. In a situation like this, I will first listen to the group without any reinforcement as a whole, work with the conductor/director on acoustic balance, then look at mic'ing with as FEW mics as possible. If the acoustic balance is reasonably good, then I will capitalize on this by starting out with only 1 mic at the front near the conductor. I will add in just enough mic to the acoustic sound to get the job done. I do NOT want the mic to dominate the sound, just reinforce. At this point, you will have to listen and determine if the results with this single mic is OVERALL better for the general audience member than doing it any of the harder ways. A single mic will be most phase coherent, have the highest gain before feedback (normalized for distance of course) and will accurately capture both the acoustic balance and the relative dynamics between each player and section based on the conductor's and band's own capabilities. If the pattern needs to be wider, then try a wider pattern (even an omni might be a good choice) or add a second mic at the same position as the first and angle them such that there is say a 45 degree angle between the two. Try to avoid covering sections that are louder than the others... this is usually naturally handled by placing the horns towards the back of the group so that you have borth distance and direction that work to your advantage. There's no reason to mic trumpets so that's generally the baseline that you will balance to. I have used this method for 30 years and have reinforced some pretty high level orchestras and jazz big bands both live reinforcement, supplemental recording and in simulcast situations. Generally the results are better OVERALL, it's up to you the judge the results of each compromise to see what is really the most satisfactory for the OVERALL needs. The key is not to worry about perfection, that's not going to happen. What you want is an overall better experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted November 2, 2010 CMS Author Share Posted November 2, 2010 Does this band rehearse together on a regular basis in a space that you can experiment with different techniques? Talk is free, but experience is priceless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted November 2, 2010 Author Members Share Posted November 2, 2010 They start rehearsals about 3 months before the event. Unfortunately, they rehearse in a completely different venue that has no similarity to the event venue. TW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted November 3, 2010 CMS Author Share Posted November 3, 2010 They start rehearsals about 3 months before the event. Unfortunately, they rehearse in a completely different venue that has no similarity to the event venue.TW That's okay, you can still practice and experiment with techniques. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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