Members Shamdog Posted December 12, 2010 Members Share Posted December 12, 2010 Have a chence to get 2 empty cabs for 15" subs for $60. If I put good drivers in, will a 15" sub be ok for small (-50 people) rooms? If so, what drivers to handle 500-700 watts from a GX5? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 12, 2010 Members Share Posted December 12, 2010 Have a chence to get 2 empty cabs for 15" subs for $60. If I put good drivers in, will a 15" sub be ok for small (-50 people) rooms?If so, what drivers to handle 500-700 watts from a GX5?well, what are the subs? Also, you need to match the driver to the sub's volume and porting so that it is tuned. Very crucial if you are going to be running significant power thru them as you want to do. And definitely use a 50hz HPF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boomerweps Posted December 12, 2010 Members Share Posted December 12, 2010 Yup. www.partsexpress.com has a lot of good info in their speaker matching chart. You want to find out what the INTERNAL volume of the cabs is. The port size is also listed and you can always modify the cabinet's port, smaller or bigger, to match the recommended size for the specific driver. Once you check all that out, you can find a decent speaker for the existing cabinet. THEN you can find out what power the driver can handle. NOTE: drivers can handle more power in a properly matched cabinet. The air loading helps prevent damage. Boomerweps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 12, 2010 Members Share Posted December 12, 2010 .BoomerwepsI find this statement kinda backwards. I'd say a speaker will handle LESS power WITHOUT proper tuning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted December 12, 2010 Members Share Posted December 12, 2010 There could be a fair bit of work involved figuring everything out. If that sounds like fun to you, then sail on. Because I'm "lazy" and rushed for time, I would probably just look for a good (meaning screaming) deal on used subs, or at the least get some empty cabs that are a known entity with already specified drivers. Might be cheaper in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shamdog Posted December 12, 2010 Author Members Share Posted December 12, 2010 Ok, then. It's either these empty: http://newjersey.craigslist.org/msg/2096669495.html Or these loaded: http://newjersey.craigslist.org/msg/2101115502.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 12, 2010 Members Share Posted December 12, 2010 The Gauss cabinets are probably a better cabiner (plywood, etc) BUT you need to know the internal dimensions and area/depth of the port to see what drivers will work well. The Gauss drivers were not an easily substituted driver and beware of possible issues withthe hole size... IIRC the frame dimensions were different than most others. The second sub option pretty much sucks and is a waste of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 12, 2010 Members Share Posted December 12, 2010 The Gauss cabinets are probably a better cabiner (plywood, etc) BUT you need to know the internal dimensions and area/depth of the port to see what drivers will work well. The Gauss drivers were not an easily substituted driver and beware of possible issues withthe hole size... IIRC the frame dimensions were different than most others.The second sub option pretty much sucks and is a waste of money.those Celestion drivers are decent but the boxes look like lowend DJ crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shamdog Posted December 13, 2010 Author Members Share Posted December 13, 2010 Thanks, guys...Gonna pass on both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members monthlymixcd Posted December 13, 2010 Members Share Posted December 13, 2010 It's obvious that you're looking for a cheap sub solution, but don't pay $150 for the privilege of having a headache! There are some decent MPro subs in your area for $500-600/pair:http://newyork.craigslist.org/wch/msg/2100899209.htmlhttp://newjersey.craigslist.org/msg/2076779733.htmlFor the money these Yorkies are a good deal:http://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/msg/2086325770.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shamdog Posted December 14, 2010 Author Members Share Posted December 14, 2010 Yea, but I'm unemployed right now so trying to find something decent around the $250 range. I know it's BS, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted December 14, 2010 Members Share Posted December 14, 2010 Hard to beat a pair of low end used Peavey 18" subs for cheap. Even at $250 each new for the PV118's they'll do 200 people if you're not needing "ear bleed" volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shamdog Posted December 16, 2010 Author Members Share Posted December 16, 2010 How about a pair of JBL MR 815's for $330? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Harmonycat Posted December 16, 2010 Members Share Posted December 16, 2010 Hard to beat a pair of low end used Peavey 18" subs for cheap. Even at $250 each new for the PV118's they'll do 200 people if you're not needing "ear bleed" volume. Those PV118 subs are 118 db max spl theoretical according to Peavey's published figures, and would only measure at about 115db peak in reality. That precludes that you are driving the snot out of them. 3 inch voicecoils don't dissipate heat like 4 inch voicecoils, so they are more prone to compression issues. A small 65 oz magnet 18" woofer and a whopping 200 watts rms rating, should be enough to tell anyone that these are one of the worst subs on the market. Essentially they are junk. My advise to the OP is buy one Peavey SP118 or JBL MRX518 or MP418, or Yorkville LS608 used. One of either of these will bury a pair of PV118s. Carrying two 73 lb subs that coupled make 124 db theoretical when powered properly makes no sense at all. Just one MRX518 at 64 lbs or Yorkville LS608 at 86 lbs will produce numbers in excess of that easily. As will the SP118 and MP418. You should be able to buy one of any of those used for only $300-400. Peavey makes some really decent products......the PV118 is not one of them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soul-x Posted December 16, 2010 Members Share Posted December 16, 2010 How about a pair of JBL MR 815's for $330? Not really a sub -- if that's what you're looking for. Made more as a bass instrument speaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shamdog Posted December 16, 2010 Author Members Share Posted December 16, 2010 Thanks for all the info here, guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 17, 2010 Members Share Posted December 17, 2010 !definitely not much of a cab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted December 19, 2010 Members Share Posted December 19, 2010 While Peavey only rates them at 400w program they actually have 300wrms drivers in them. They seem to run quite well on an RMX2450 in stereo. Peavey seems to rate their stuff more conservatively than most. The SP118 is definitely a better cab but one can't outdo a pair of PV118 coupled for sure! On that "other" forum there are folks running them BRIDGED on RMX2450's - now that's stoopid but makes me not worry at all about them in stereo on that amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Harmonycat Posted December 19, 2010 Members Share Posted December 19, 2010 While Peavey only rates them at 400w program they actually have 300wrms drivers in them. They seem to run quite well on an RMX2450 in stereo. Peavey seems to rate their stuff more conservatively than most. The SP118 is definitely a better cab but one can't outdo a pair of PV118 coupled for sure! On that "other" forum there are folks running them BRIDGED on RMX2450's - now that's stoopid but makes me not worry at all about them in stereo on that amp. It makes no difference if the driver itself is rated 300 watts rms. Tuned to 46 hz in a 5 cuft enclosure, it rates as 200 watts rms under weighted testing conditions that includes a 6 db crest factor. It is likely limited to 800 watts peak by it's excursion at 46 hz in 5 cuft. Just because you are running it with an RMX2450 does not mean that you are running them at clipping levels or even close to those numbers, but the sub could still see 1000 watts peak from the dynamics of the music which is higher than it's rated capacity as tuned. I have seen woofers tuned on software that are rated 800 watts rms in todays hokey rating speak, reach XMAX excursion levels from low enough tuning to only be rated at only 300 watts rms. Furthermore, that other forum has two types of members.....those who are audio pros and know how to use compressor/limiters to squeeze every last db out of them and alot of guys who don't know enough about running gear without blowing it it. That is why there are lots of "I don't know what happen, but my subs blew last night" posts over there. "They ran great fo two years". We used to get alot of those here too until Andy started posting blown woofer pictures afew years ago. I want any speaker that I own to run for decades or until I sell it. I have one set of subs from 1985 with Peavey 1505-8DTs in them that I never run with more than 425 watts rms and they are still in great condition. I don't run them hard ever. If I want more I add......(wait for it Andy)......watts and cones! Run any speaker at 2.5 times it's rms rating and it will not live as long as one powered at the rms rating or up to 1.5 times the rms rating. The constant use of a 200 rms speaker run by 500 watts rms will eventually cause a shortened lifespan......it is just a matter of how much shorter. Furthermore if you have to run a 200 rms sub with that much power, you have the wrong tool for the job and you are flirting with disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted December 19, 2010 Members Share Posted December 19, 2010 Furthermore if you have to run a 200 rms sub with that much power, you have the wrong tool for the job and you are flirting with disaster.Not my rig - I told the owner they wouldn't last but so far they have made me look like chicken little by continuing to pump it out, even outside . Peavey really does make some good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 19, 2010 Members Share Posted December 19, 2010 It makes no difference if the driver itself is rated 300 watts rms. Tuned to 46 hz in a 5 cuft enclosure, it rates as 200 watts rms under weighted testing conditions that includes a 6 db crest factor. It is likely limited to 800 watts peak by it's excursion at 46 hz in 5 cuft. Just because you are running it with an RMX2450 does not mean that you are running them at clipping levels or even close to those numbers, but the sub could still see 1000 watts peak from the dynamics of the music which is higher than it's rated capacity as tuned. I have seen woofers tuned on software that are rated 800 watts rms in todays hokey rating speak, reach XMAX excursion levels from low enough tuning to only be rated at only 300 watts rms. Furthermore, that other forum has two types of members.....those who are audio pros and know how to use compressor/limiters to squeeze every last db out of them and alot of guys who don't know enough about running gear without blowing it it. That is why there are lots of "I don't know what happen, but my subs blew last night" posts over there. "They ran great fo two years". We used to get alot of those here too until Andy started posting blown woofer pictures afew years ago. I want any speaker that I own to run for decades or until I sell it. I have one st of subs from 1985 with Peavey 1505-8DTs in them that I never run with more than 425 watts rms and they are still in great condition. I don't run them hard ever. If I want more I add......(wait for it Andy)......watts and cones! Run any speaker at 2.5 times it's rms rating and it will not live as long as one powered at the rms rating or up to 1.5 times the rms rating. The constant use of a 200 rms speaker run by 500 watts rms will eventually cause a shortened lifespan......it is just a matter of how much shorter. Furthermore if you have to run a 200 rms sub with that much power, you have the wrong tool for the job and you are flirting with disaster. great post, very concise, down-to-earth explanation. Also, if I'm correct, aren't most speaker ratings more of a thermal ability to dissipate heat? Which would mean exactly as you stated. The speaker's real-world capability can decrease greatly be putting extra demands on it due to low frequency expectations/excursion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drumstix Posted December 19, 2010 Members Share Posted December 19, 2010 It makes no difference if the driver itself is rated 300 watts rms. Tuned to 46 hz in a 5 cuft enclosure, it rates as 200 watts rms under weighted testing conditions that includes a 6 db crest factor. It is likely limited to 800 watts peak by it's excursion at 46 hz in 5 cuft. Just because you are running it with an RMX2450 does not mean that you are running them at clipping levels or even close to those numbers, but the sub could still see 1000 watts peak from the dynamics of the music which is higher than it's rated capacity as tuned. I have seen woofers tuned on software that are rated 800 watts rms in todays hokey rating speak, reach XMAX excursion levels from low enough tuning to only be rated at only 300 watts rms. Furthermore, that other forum has two types of members.....those who are audio pros and know how to use compressor/limiters to squeeze every last db out of them and alot of guys who don't know enough about running gear without blowing it it. That is why there are lots of "I don't know what happen, but my subs blew last night" posts over there. "They ran great fo two years". We used to get alot of those here too until Andy started posting blown woofer pictures afew years ago. I want any speaker that I own to run for decades or until I sell it. I have one st of subs from 1985 with Peavey 1505-8DTs in them that I never run with more than 425 watts rms and they are still in great condition. I don't run them hard ever. If I want more I add......(wait for it Andy)......watts and cones! Run any speaker at 2.5 times it's rms rating and it will not live as long as one powered at the rms rating or up to 1.5 times the rms rating. The constant use of a 200 rms speaker run by 500 watts rms will eventually cause a shortened lifespan......it is just a matter of how much shorter. Furthermore if you have to run a 200 rms sub with that much power, you have the wrong tool for the job and you are flirting with disaster. Kinda interesting how things shift over there sometimes. I remember at first if you were not feeding your SRX718 1600w per box you were a bad sound guy. When a couple of months back, a certain member started measuring the box with different levels of voltage and in a nut shell found out that really anything over 900w was a waist and causing the driver into early distortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shamdog Posted December 20, 2010 Author Members Share Posted December 20, 2010 Here's another one: STS Soundtech Titan Dual 18" PA Speakers - $650 http://cnj.craigslist.org/msg/2121080667.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shamdog Posted December 20, 2010 Author Members Share Posted December 20, 2010 Or these: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330508190905&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 20, 2010 Members Share Posted December 20, 2010 Kinda interesting how things shift over there sometimes. I remember at first if you were not feeding your SRX718 1600w per box you were a bad sound guy. When a couple of months back, a certain member started measuring the box with different levels of voltage and in a nut shell found out that really anything over 900w was a waist and causing the driver into early distortion. Of course, power compression cause by several mechanisms are what make overpowering mostly a waste of effort and long term reliability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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