Members jr_vw2 Posted April 6, 2011 Members Share Posted April 6, 2011 So I have been racking my brain and reading reading reading about pa systems. It seems like I am confusing myself even further. Here is what im trying to accomplish.... I want a pa for vocals only and only for band practice. We have a really heavy handed drummer and a pretty big practice space so we usually practice pretty loud. Two guitar players and a bassist. It seems the more I read on PA systems the less I realize I know. Again I am only looking for a vocal only PA. ON A TIGHT BUDGET things im looking at...Behringer ep1500 poweramp (used and seems to have pretty decent reviews)Alesis Studio 12r (only because I found it local and cheap and it would be handy for recording later on) possibly a bbe sonic maximizer I am TOTALLY lost on what speakers to look for with this rig But mostly looking to only run 2 15" mains.....no subs OR Powered Speakers with a mixer I have only recently considered the powered speaker route mainly because I have no idea what im doing lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TimmyP Posted April 6, 2011 Members Share Posted April 6, 2011 You need a system that will help save your hearing. Use headphones or earbuds with a decent amount of isolation. Most can be driven directly by the aux out of a mixer (though I recommend a compressor for protection). Or you can use these: http://www.rockonaudio.com/package.php, and this: http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Shure-P4HW-Hardwired-Bodypack-for-PSM-400-Systems?sku=243606 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crownman Posted April 6, 2011 Members Share Posted April 6, 2011 Forget the sonic craptomizer. Used in an instrument rig it can have SOME usefullness, however since you are on a tight budget as you've said... don't waste the money. What is your budget? AND Is there any chance that the heavy handed drummer cares enough about his bandmates to tone it down a little? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stangconv Posted April 6, 2011 Members Share Posted April 6, 2011 How many people singing? If just one you could go just a single powered speaker and run a mic straight into it. Prob cheapest you will find, and that's how I got my start into the PA world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hegmatronicon Posted April 6, 2011 Members Share Posted April 6, 2011 DEFINATELY powered speakers with a mixer.Give your budget and the guys here will be able to give you some good recommendations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jr_vw2 Posted April 6, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 6, 2011 Like I stated we practice pretty loud, but it is a well set up room with lots of acoustic panels. My ears dont ring very much after practice if at all. only one singer at the moment but might have backup vocals at some point. I dont want total crap quality but I dont expect studio quality either. Its a 1400sq ft area so I mostly want to make sure everyone can hear the vocals. My budget is kind of on a floating scale so to speak. I find it eaiser to buy things "piece by piece" over a few weeks rather than dropping $XXX all at once. But if I had to put a number on it I would say around the $600 range +/- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hegmatronicon Posted April 6, 2011 Members Share Posted April 6, 2011 Like I stated we practice pretty loud, but it is a well set up room with lots of acoustic panels. My ears dont ring very much after practice if at all. only one singer at the moment but might have backup vocals at some point. I dont want total crap quality but I dont expect studio quality either. Its a 1400sq ft area so I mostly want to make sure everyone can hear the vocals.My budget is kind of on a floating scale so to speak. I find it eaiser to buy things "piece by piece" over a few weeks rather than dropping $XXX all at once. But if I had to put a number on it I would say around the $600 range +/- Thats a VERY tight budget.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stangconv Posted April 6, 2011 Members Share Posted April 6, 2011 Bingo... Look for one or two used power speakers. 2 would be good for dispertion but one will get you by for now I'm sure. You can plug a microphone straight into it. Then save up to buy a mixer when backups are needed. If you buy 2 speakers they can be daisy chained together. My first speaker was a Behringer B412DSP. A lot of people say stay away from Behringer and they are probably right, but it served me very well, and I eventually sold it for what I paid for it. I don't know what's available in your local area though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Special J Posted April 6, 2011 Members Share Posted April 6, 2011 My first bit of advice would be to get the brands Alesis, Behringer, and BBE out of your mind. Look for a used QSC, JBL, FBT, or RCF powered speaker. All you need is one for now. Plug a mic into it and point it at your head. Done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jr_vw2 Posted April 6, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 6, 2011 how many watt powered speaker should I be looking into? Any brands/models I should look at used? The local market around here is pretty crap on this kind of stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flanc Posted April 6, 2011 Members Share Posted April 6, 2011 Buy this and save for a second: http://cgi.ebay.com/JBL-PRX612M-Powered-Speaker-PRX612-PRX-612M-PRX-612-/110669786765?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c46eee8d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stangconv Posted April 6, 2011 Members Share Posted April 6, 2011 Thats a VERY tight budget.... I could do it... Lol just saw 2 used JBL Eons 2 hours from me for 500. Used 58 for 75 and 25 for a used mic stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jr_vw2 Posted April 6, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 6, 2011 my biggest thing is that we are just getting started and I seem to be the only one that wants to throw money at this. So If this actually turns into a productive gigging band then im sure we will get a "band fund" started and we can get a much nicer PA than what im looking for now. But for the time being I would like to keep it cheap just cuz im the only one footing the bill. I already have mics and cables Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stangconv Posted April 6, 2011 Members Share Posted April 6, 2011 I know I'm in the minority (very much minority) but I have had really good luck with Behringer powered speakers. And if they are just sitting in a practice space and you can find a working set for cheap then I would have no problem going for it. I have had 5 including the 412DSP and haven't had an issue with any (still own and use the other 4) I was the 412DSP's 2nd owner and sold it because I no longer needed it for practice. That thing was HEAVY. The guy I sold it too is still using it in his practice space. That thing got stoopid loud too. That being said there are better brands for sure.... Just depends what you have for sale in your area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted April 6, 2011 Members Share Posted April 6, 2011 I know I'm in the minority (very much minority) but I have had really good luck with Behringer powered speakers. And if they are just sitting in a practice space and you can find a working set for cheap then I would have no problem going for it. I have had 5 including the 412DSP and haven't had an issue with any (still own and use the other 4) I was the 412DSP's 2nd owner and sold it because I no longer needed it for practice. That thing was HEAVY. The guy I sold it too is still using it in his practice space. That thing got stoopid loud too.That being said there are better brands for sure.... Just depends what you have for sale in your area.Other than my personal thoughts on Uli's deplorable business ethics, in this situation it isn't that big of a deal if a piece of gear fails. Certainly not the same as losing a much needed piece of equipment mid-gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hegmatronicon Posted April 6, 2011 Members Share Posted April 6, 2011 Other than my personal thoughts on Uli's deplorable business ethics, in this situation it isn't that big of a deal if a piece of gear fails. Certainly not the same as losing a much needed piece of equipment mid-gig. True. And that was my first thought....altho if he buys a single PRX or something now...and gets a second one later...and then a mixer.....he has a system that will do for practice.....and could also be used for gigs in the future. I suppose if he buys Behringers they can be used as monitors for a gig.....in a pinch - but he'll still need FOH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Telecruiser Posted April 6, 2011 Members Share Posted April 6, 2011 My ears dont ring very much after practice if at all. Keep doing it without protection they will. Bet on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted April 6, 2011 Members Share Posted April 6, 2011 EV ELX112P can be had new for $600 it's a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted April 6, 2011 Members Share Posted April 6, 2011 We're running a single powered speaker (Yorkville NX55p) and a Soundcraft EFX-8 mixer at our band practices (4 vocals), and it's more than enough for our needs. The room is roughly 1200 sq.ft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted April 6, 2011 Members Share Posted April 6, 2011 RCF 312A is around ~$450 and, IMO, the best bang for the buck in a new powered speaker. You can't hear it first though and service is "mail in and wait". That said, my entire PA is RCF. Then again I have backups with 7 speakers I could use as mains and I held onto my pair of Yorkville subs. They just sit collecting dust, but it's an insurance policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members monkeyland Posted April 6, 2011 Members Share Posted April 6, 2011 what I would do. buy whatever good powered speaker will fit into your budget and use it as a monitor. If the other band members sing they can buy their own. Lay that speaker on its side an point it right up at you. I would start by looking at: EV ELX112P $599and from RMC audio with coupon code:JBL PRX512M $630RCT ART312A $500? i think with any of these you have a basis that you could build a complete system on as money allows if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fishmanrod Posted April 6, 2011 Members Share Posted April 6, 2011 Firstly, no pun intended, but you need to listen to those who are cautioning you on protecting your hearing. I bet a lot of people on the forum have hearing loss and are speaking from experience. I do and I am. The recommnedation on in-ear monitors is a great one, but probably not pracical for you right now. Spend the dough on some good musicians ear plugs. Second, powered speaker, or speakers, whatever you can afford. Start used and go to a reputable place to buy. You don't know enough to buy over the internet unless it's new and has good reviews. Yorkville, RCF, JBL, are all good brands. Behringer is riskier, if you are going to gig with it.Third, you can get a cheap little "8 channel" Apex mixer (or something like it) for around $100. Four mic inputs and two stereo channels. That would allow you up to four vocalsists, and a play back from an ipod for the 'no it goes like this' arguments. Also usually has on board effects.Forth, my next investment would be an inexpensive 31 band equalizer, to help with the feed back problems you are going to have with a CRANKED monitor trying to hear yourself. Fifth, DONT EVER START A BAND FUND FOR GEAR. Why? Because when the band breaks up, you sell all the gear for 50% of what you paid for it (if you are lucky) and you go from having the use of $4000 in gear to having a few hundred bucks in your pocket. Buy what YOU need to do your job, and rent for gigs and take the rental off the top of your pay. Save your money for gigs and buy a PA yourself, so no matter what happens in the end you will have a PA. If the other band members are not willing to invest in a band fund, if you do happen to talk them into it, if they quit it's going to be ugly, they will want their money back, and the rest of the band is either going to have to put up cash or sell gear to buy the departing member out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted April 6, 2011 CMS Author Share Posted April 6, 2011 my biggest thing is that we are just getting started and I seem to be the only one that wants to throw money at this. So If this actually turns into a productive gigging band then im sure we will get a "band fund" started and we can get a much nicer PA than what im looking for now. But for the time being I would like to keep it cheap just cuz im the only one footing the bill. I already have mics and cables Thinking that the band may become a productive gigging band is optimism. Thinking that anyone in the band will ever help fund the PA is foolishness. The one-powered speaker route is the way to go here. And get the guys to turn down and hit softer. "We practice loud" and "my ears hardly ring if at all after" are precursers to permanent hearing damage. ANY ringing indicates that some damage has been done. It adds up. Good practice sessions are supposed to be about learning to play together, and loud practice masks problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted April 6, 2011 Members Share Posted April 6, 2011 Once you damage your hearing, it will NEVER come back. A whole bunch of us guys here have serious problems with tinnitus. It isn't funny and it will never go away. If your ears ever rang even once, the damage has started. It will not heal. The next time might be when you get that wonderful permanent ringing, hissing, scraping sound that will never stop. 24/7/365. Awake, asleep it never stops. It doesn't get softer it just keeps going. If there is anything I can do to prevent someone else from this I would. I going on a little over 25 years with this now. The only way I can stop it is to have the nerves in my eardrum surgically cut so I would hear nothing at all ever. Not a great choice for someone who is a musician and a live sound guy. I had to give up the studio work a long time ago since I really can't perceive stereo. Just be very careful with your hearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted April 6, 2011 Members Share Posted April 6, 2011 EV ELX112P can be had new for $600 it's a start. Second. I've not heard the live x series but they look promising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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