High Action?

[bluesmann]

This is a great tool to see if you have any high frets.

 

[WRGKMC]

Please confine the political snipes in the political forum where they belong. I know you got a big jolly out of that but it wasn't justified.

 

I clearly said - Nut height is one of those measurements you can make by putting a capo on the 2nd or 3rd fret then gapping the clearance over the first fret.

 

I didn't think I had to explain this in laymen's terms to you . I actually think you're more astute then that but obviously I was wrong so please excuse me for misjudging you.

 

Again, I didn't say capo the first fret down as you suggested. That's clearly your misunderstanding and that's all there is to it. I shouldn't have to clarify the obvious.

 

Holding the 2nd fret down means you have to capo between the 2nd and 3rd frets. Holding the third down means you capo between the 3rd and 4th. What's the big deal about that. This is so blatantly obvious I cant believe you even misunderstood it. You clearly didn't understand what I posted and jumped to the wrong conclusions.

 

You were so far off in fact I didn't understand why you responded. Then it became obvious you saw your mistake and turned on the attack instead of simply saying you misunderstood what I posted.

 

I suggest you be a little more tolerant and simply ask people to clarify what they mean and not assume they are trying to obfuscate they're statements when they are simply trying to clear up that simple misunderstanding.

[DeepEnd]

Please confine the political snipes in the political forum where they belong. I know you got a big jolly out of that but it wasn't justified.

 

I clearly said - Nut height is one of those measurements you can make by putting a capo on the 2nd or 3rd fret then gapping the clearance over the first fret.

 

I didn't think I had to explain this in laymen's terms to you . I actually think you're more astute then that but obviously I was wrong so please excuse me for misjudging you.

 

Again, I didn't say capo the first fret down as you suggested. That's clearly your misunderstanding and that's all there is to it. I shouldn't have to clarify the obvious.

 

Holding the 2nd fret down means you have to capo between the 2nd and 3rd frets. Holding the third down means you capo between the 3rd and 4th. What's the big deal about that. This is so blatantly obvious I cant believe you even misunderstood it. You clearly didn't understand what I posted and jumped to the wrong conclusions.

 

You were so far off in fact I didn't understand why you responded. Then it became obvious you saw your mistake and turned on the attack instead of simply saying you misunderstood what I posted.

 

I suggest you be a little more tolerant and simply ask people to clarify what they mean and not assume they are trying to obfuscate they're statements when they are simply trying to clear up that simple misunderstanding.

Here's what you posted:

Nut height is one of those measurements you can make by putting a capo on the 2nd or 3rd fret then gapping the clearance over the first fret.

If you had said ''between the 2nd and 3rd frets'' that would have been fine but you didn't. Which is why I called you on it. Instead of admitting you could have been more clear, you tried to bluff and rationalize and obfuscate. This is where your command of English fails. This is where your ability to explain what you mean fails. That's not my fault. If you were half as good at explaining things as you think you are, there would be no confusion. Freeman wouldn't be talking about ''alternate facts,'' which, incidentally, isn't political any more, it's become part of modern usage. When I first started reading your posts I assumed you were reasonably astute but obviously I was wrong. Putting a capo at the 2nd fret means between the first and second frets. Period. Frank Ford and Marguerite Pastella know their stuff, and so does Freeman. None of them do it the way you do. None of them explain it the way you do. I can't help thinking there's a reason for that. Nobody else approaches things in your ass backward manner and there's probably a reason for that too. You're the one going on the attack because you can't stand having people realize you're not the genius you present yourself to be. Please stop trying to confuse the OP.

[WRGKMC]

Well excuse me for not passing your English class and assuming you could think out of you box.

 

I think you could use a little common core math refresher so you are able to identify when people are using Positive or Negative Numbers on a Number Line. It will help you avoid getting so confused in the future when working to the left of zero.

 

I do realize most people in the US are conditioned to see the world though a singular vantage point, to the right of zero. That's what higher education is supposed to get you past. You learn one set of rules then learn how to break them. In this case you view the guitar neck as a finite plane and the nut is always zero. That not only shows you lack mathematical but lack higher musical reasoning as well. Anyone you come across who is capable of viewing the neck as an endless plane and able to think to the left or right of zero must confuse the hell out of you. I suspect you don't know many people who are left handed or from the orient who write right to left either.

 

I've worked with highly educated engineers most of my life. Add to that my father and wife are left hand too. I grew up being able to jump from left or right of zero as needed. Most engineers I know are formally trained to think this way, and the truly gifted ones are capable of thinking three dimensionally. I don't claim to be an expert but it is an acquired skill employers in the technology field pay well for.

 

I actually know why you got confused. I worked with some really classy engineers who took the time to elevate my thinking so I was capable of understanding the way they conceptualize things. Its an important aspect in my field. Even when dealing with binary you deal with logical and arithmetic shifting and integers. The mentoring process of getting past a singular view isn't an easy task. you have to work hard to get there, but it is worth the effort. Its nearly impossible to learn on a forum like this.

 

I do recognize when people lack the aptitude for this kind of thinking and recognize why they become disoriented when you try and explain things. Once they are over a certain age I rarely bother even trying to mentor them. You are a classic example of why. I could care about how big a fan boy you are with other post here. If they explain things ways you understand that's great. I'm not trying to win your popularity contest. I do rebuke your suggestion I need to tailor my comments to simply satisfy your narrow perspective. You have no right to suggest this of you and vice versa.

[onelife]

I believe it is more important to communicate than it is to be right.

 

I studied electromagnetic physics in school but if I describe phenomena in terms that people don't understand then there is no communication.

 

As a music teacher with a few very young students, I have to explain things in ways that they can comprehend - which is different than the way I communicate with my longtime bandmates.

 

If I was to belittle a person for not being able to understand then that serves no purpose and just complicates the situation further.

 

 

Let's just be nice and share our collective knowledge and experience. Let's make a conscious effort to be polite and try to convey our ideas in a way that is simple to understand - with no expectation of genius on the part of the reader. Expectation can often lead to disappointment.

[kr236rk]

Thanks all. DeepEnd, both guitars have Extra Slinkys on them. The action on the new Pacifica feels higher at the 12th fret region and the strings feel harder to push, to the extent that I thought I had different strings on the new guitar. They were - they were the new Cobalt Skinkys but when I swapped back to the old Extras the action still felt the same. Cobalt's were a real disappointment, I thought they'd be slinkier that Extras but they feel exactly the same to me.

[DeepEnd]

Well excuse me for not passing your English class and assuming you could think out of you box.

 

I think you could use a little common core math refresher so you are able to identify when people are using Positive or Negative Numbers on a Number Line. It will help you avoid getting so confused in the future when working to the left of zero.

 

I do realize most people in the US are conditioned to see the world though a singular vantage point, to the right of zero. That's what higher education is supposed to get you past. You learn one set of rules then learn how to break them. In this case you view the guitar neck as a finite plane and the nut is always zero. That not only shows you lack mathematical but lack higher musical reasoning as well. Anyone you come across who is capable of viewing the neck as an endless plane and able to think to the left or right of zero must confuse the hell out of you. I suspect you don't know many people who are left handed or from the orient who write right to left either.

 

I've worked with highly educated engineers most of my life. Add to that my father and wife are left hand too. I grew up being able to jump from left or right of zero as needed. Most engineers I know are formally trained to think this way, and the truly gifted ones are capable of thinking three dimensionally. I don't claim to be an expert but it is an acquired skill employers in the technology field pay well for.

 

I actually know why you got confused. I worked with some really classy engineers who took the time to elevate my thinking so I was capable of understanding the way they conceptualize things. Its an important aspect in my field. Even when dealing with binary you deal with logical and arithmetic shifting and integers. The mentoring process of getting past a singular view isn't an easy task. you have to work hard to get there, but it is worth the effort. Its nearly impossible to learn on a forum like this.

 

I do recognize when people lack the aptitude for this kind of thinking and recognize why they become disoriented when you try and explain things. Once they are over a certain age I rarely bother even trying to mentor them. You are a classic example of why. I could care about how big a fan boy you are with other post here. If they explain things ways you understand that's great. I'm not trying to win your popularity contest. I do rebuke your suggestion I need to tailor my comments to simply satisfy your narrow perspective. You have no right to suggest this of you and vice versa.

Except that there are no negative numbers on a guitar fretboard. Maybe there are in your alternate reality but not in this one. It's not a matter of ''conditioning,'' it's a matter of fact. Guitars sometimes have a ''zero fret'' and it's called that for a reason. A guitar neck is a ''finite plane'' with a beginning and an end. Anyone who views it as infinite does confuse the hell out of me because they're unhinged from reality. As it happens, I have a daughter who is left handed and very good at math and geometry. I've known enough engineers to respect their logical thinking, which is missing from your post. The only thing ''elevated'' about you is your ability to sling B.S.

[DeepEnd]

Thanks all. DeepEnd, both guitars have Extra Slinkys on them. The action on the new Pacifica feels higher at the 12th fret region and the strings feel harder to push, to the extent that I thought I had different strings on the new guitar. They were - they were the new Cobalt Skinkys but when I swapped back to the old Extras the action still felt the same. Cobalt's were a real disappointment, I thought they'd be slinkier that Extras but they feel exactly the same to me.

Hmmm. That's really odd. Both guitars should feel about the same. I'm going to stop guessing for now. Please post measurements once you get your feeler gauges. As for regular Extra Slinkys vs. Cobalt Extra Slinkys, two strings of the same gauge with the same size cores will feel pretty much the same. Not identical but close. The only way to get ''slinkier'' is to go to a lighter gauge or thinner core.

[Les Paul Lover]

Wow!!!

 

Here's another fact....

I know it's the interwebz and super serious business, but sometimes people are tense. You know, knock one off, have sex, whatever works, but please, relax.

 

 

 

Eh, look! An arse guitar!

 

[onelife]

How does the seup/tension of the springs in the back of the guitar compare between the two instruments?

[DeepEnd]

How does the seup/tension of the springs in the back of the guitar compare between the two instruments?

Excellent thought and an idea I hadn't thought of. I don't know how much difference it would make but I'm open to anything at this point.

[kr236rk]

What a bummer - those pups look interesting?

[Les Paul Lover]

They do, don't they?

 

I suspect there might be a bad case of buckle rash on the other side though.

[Freeman Keller]

How does the seup/tension of the springs in the back of the guitar compare between the two instruments?

 

 

Good catch. They should have the same number of springs in the same positions and the same amount of travel to the trem. Might be interesting to just block the trems on both of them and see if they feel the same.

[kr236rk]

Don't know how to do that.

 

 

#46.2

onelife commented

 

Thanks - how would I know the spring tensions are different or the same on the two guitars please?

[kr236rk]

I now suspect the neck of the new guitar might be microscopically bowing away from the strings, and this would explain why the strings feel higher here than when I play the old Pacifica.

[onelife]

just take the plastic plate off the back of the guitars and look at the springs...

 

[DeepEnd]

I now suspect the neck of the new guitar might be microscopically bowing away from the strings, and this would explain why the strings feel higher here than when I play the old Pacifica.

That's the "relief" we've been talking about. You'll know more after you get your feeler gauges and measure it properly. Let us know what you find out.

 

[kr236rk]

That's the "relief" we've been talking about. You'll know more after you get your feeler gauges and measure it properly. Let us know what you find out.

 

Thanks. With capo at first fret holding down 19th fret the feeler gauge gave the following at the 9th fret:

 

Old guitar, 1st string: .003" / 0.08mm

New guitar 1st string: .006" / 0.15mm

 

Old guitar, 6th string: .009" / 0.23mm

New guitar 6th string: .010" / 0.25mm

 

It's very slight but tends to confirm what my finger tips have been telling me.

[DeepEnd]

Thanks. With capo at first fret holding down 19th fret the feeler gauge gave the following at the 9th fret:

 

Old guitar, 1st string: .003" / 0.08mm

New guitar 1st string: .006" / 0.15mm

 

Old guitar, 6th string: .009" / 0.23mm

New guitar 6th string: .010" / 0.25mm

 

It's very slight but tends to confirm what my finger tips have been telling me.

Okay, that's minor and easily corrected. Honestly, I'm not sure I'd notice. Before you do, though, what are the other measurements like clearance at the first fret? If you take out relief there will be less clearance at the first fret. Not by much but you need to be aware of it. If it's already marginal you could get a bit of buzz. You also need to be aware that once you reduce the relief you may need to raise the action a tad since the strings will be slightly lower and the action right now is virtually identical on both guitars. It may well be that reducing the relief slightly will be all that's needed to make your new guitar feel like the old one.

[kr236rk]

Thanks DeepEnd,

 

It's obvious that there is a minor rise in action on the new guitar, that gives me enough excuse to get it looked at. I've done as much measurement as I can at the moment, finer measurement is likely to be misleading because I am basically ham fisted when it comes to precise measurements, I will let the luthier do his magic now, hopefully get the axe over to him by the weekend. Will update from there.

 

Spell check tells me 'luthier' is Luther, better take a Bible with me just in case

 

Bests & to all

 

[DeepEnd]

Thanks DeepEnd,

 

It's obvious that there is a minor rise in action on the new guitar, that gives me enough excuse to get it looked at. I've done as much measurement as I can at the moment, finer measurement is likely to be misleading because I am basically ham fisted when it comes to precise measurements, I will let the luthier do his magic now, hopefully get the axe over to him by the weekend. Will update from there.

 

Spell check tells me 'luthier' is Luther, better take a Bible with me just in case

 

Bests & to all

I doubt you're any more ham fisted than some of the rest of us but if you're not comfortable working on your own guitar that's fine. It really isn't rocket science though and I'm sure you could do it. I do wonder about taking it to the "luthier" who told you he couldn't get the action any lower because he probably won't want to do anything. As for taking a Bible, I often find it a good idea to have one handy, except since I'm a Methodist I'd want a Wesley instead of a Luther.