Members OneEng Posted May 10, 2012 Members Share Posted May 10, 2012 I have had a drummer that had a small snare that sounded like a rifle shot every time they hit it. The cymbals were so loud that the microphones were into the yellow on the uv meters when no one was singing. At the end of every practice and gig, there was a mound of wood chips from the sticks! I tried recording our practice with a good PMD620 recorder to show him how loud the cymbals and snare was. He didn't believe it really sounded like that. I had to replace the drummer..... with a drummer that has vDrums I have never been happier with the live sound as I am now. ... and incidentally, I have heard cymbals and snare overwhelm a room 70x110 ft with over 200 people in it without being miced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members trevcda Posted May 10, 2012 Members Share Posted May 10, 2012 The cymbals were so loud that the microphones were into the yellow on the uv meters when no one was singing. Didn't ya know? :poke: The general consensus around here is that cymbal mics were a waste of time, money, mics and channels and that you should let your open vocal mics capture your cymbals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pdiddy Posted May 10, 2012 Members Share Posted May 10, 2012 Good drummers know how to play to the room, song and audience. They have an arsenal of cymbals they can choose from and the ability to use different diameter sticks when called for. Find yourself a seasoned drummer and you will not have to deal with these issues. I am not a flashy or super-star technical drummer by any means, but I get calls all the time because I play for the music and understand things like stage volume, dynamics and most importantly the needs of the person running FOH. +2 - He's a piece of work if he doesn't realise the gig is about entertaining people and not driving them away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Art Flood Posted May 10, 2012 Members Share Posted May 10, 2012 +2 - He's a piece of work if he doesn't realise the gig is about entertaining people and not driving them away. Some people (usually drummers and guitarist) just never get this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rick6 Posted May 10, 2012 Members Share Posted May 10, 2012 I feel your pain. If I ever audition drummers again and one of them shows up without any drums, that's the one I'll hire. I have played with several great drummers, one of whom at least is fully capable of playing quietly. And yet, I just heard him in a pretty big room -- playing too loud. I did a recording - a Zoom H2 placed as far from the drums as I could get it, and the drums were still way too loud. He later said that he was using his lightest sticks -- sticks that won't even bounce right -- and he was still too loud. I play more often will lesser players, who seem to believe that the audience is there to hear drumming and that the other players can't live without loud bashing most of the time. I have no answer. Trying to reason with them just pisses them off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Flogger59 Posted May 10, 2012 Members Share Posted May 10, 2012 Exactly - I could make that kit sound just as loud as a regular sized kit with very little effort - a smaller snare doesn't mean it has less volume - the same for the kick and toms.My brother's drummer plays a 4-piece kit (12" & 14" toms, an 18" kick and a 3"x13" brass snare), uses 5A sticks, and he is every bit as loud as anybody else with standard sized drums. Yeah, you COULD, but you would have to try. I'm no drummer, I play guitar, but I'm in the unusual position of having gotten setup and tuning tips from the likes of Manu Katche, Dave Weckl, Peter Erskine, and David Garabaldi one on one. A small round box tends to be quieter than a large round box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted May 10, 2012 Members Share Posted May 10, 2012 I feel your pain. If I ever audition drummers again and one of them shows up without any drums, that's the one I'll hire. I have played with several great drummers, one of whom at least is fully capable of playing quietly. And yet, I just heard him in a pretty big room -- playing too loud. I did a recording - a Zoom H2 placed as far from the drums as I could get it, and the drums were still way too loud. He later said that he was using his lightest sticks -- sticks that won't even bounce right -- and he was still too loud. I play more often will lesser players, who seem to believe that the audience is there to hear drumming and that the other players can't live without loud bashing most of the time. I have no answer. Trying to reason with them just pisses them off. Yeah and your guitar amp is blaring at our ears at the same height as our head yet all the sound hits you in the knees....oh yeah then of course midnight hits, up goes the ole guitar amp another 2 notches. I'm sick of the drummer bashing as I've only known a couple guitar players over a 20 year history that kept their amps under control through a full night. 2 cents, may the discussion continue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted May 10, 2012 Members Share Posted May 10, 2012 I'm sick of the drummer bashing... Wasn't that the whole point of the discussion? Drummers that bash? Oh, I get it now. ;-) In short, any good musician, on any instrument, ought to be able to come in with the correct tool for the job, and know how to use it in any situation required. Seems to me that is what they expect of the sound man/sound woman/sound dog. If you want the mix right out front, loudest instrument on stage will set the volume for the entire show. If the band knows that, they will make sure the loudest thing on stage is at, or under, the appropriate level. I can always add instrument volume, but taking it away is not an option. Why is that so tough for some folks to get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted May 10, 2012 CMS Author Share Posted May 10, 2012 Yeah and your guitar amp is blaring at our ears at the same height as our head yet all the sound hits you in the knees....oh yeah then of course midnight hits, up goes the ole guitar amp another 2 notches. I'm sick of the drummer bashing as I've only known a couple guitar players over a 20 year history that kept their amps under control through a full night. 2 cents, may the discussion continue! And I'm a bassist, but I can point to dozens of other bassists who think the only rig is an Ampeg fridge on '11'. There is no shortage of guys who don't get it. It has nothing to do with the particular instrument being played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members yanktar Posted May 10, 2012 Members Share Posted May 10, 2012 And I'm a bassist, but I can point to dozens of other bassists who think the only rig is an Ampeg fridge on '11'. There is no shortage of guys who don't get it. It has nothing to do with the particular instrument being played. True dat! I sang in choirs when I was in HS and college and nothing was worse than some dummy who thought they were Pavarotti or Beverly Sills pouring it on and not blending with the rest of the choir. I thought they were jerk-offs then and haven't changed that opinion since. Your drummer is a jerk-off.It's supposed to be about the music and if the music suffers because of some jerk-off's ego, get rid of him. Nothing sounds better than a group of musicians in ANY genre that "get it" and all work together to produce a single sound. I don't care if it's a symphony, opera, chamber orchestra, choirs, C&W, Folk, soft rock, jazz, hard rock, whatever. The balancing off of each other is what makes it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted May 10, 2012 Members Share Posted May 10, 2012 Oh I get it, been there done that, but keep in mind we are acoustic, we like to hear our instruments as much as guitar player. Often found my self playing harder to even hear over the guitar, just trying to examine both sides of the pancake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pine Apple Slim Posted May 10, 2012 Members Share Posted May 10, 2012 Set up the practice before that gig in a small room and make him get it right, or get him some V Drums and you control the vol. Otherwise, dont do the gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kmart Posted May 10, 2012 Members Share Posted May 10, 2012 Yeah, you COULD, but you would have to try. I'm no drummer, I play guitar, but I'm in the unusual position of having gotten setup and tuning tips from the likes of Manu Katche, Dave Weckl, Peter Erskine, and David Garabaldi one on one. A small round box tends to be quieter than a large round box. Well, I AM a drummer, and have been playing gigs for nearing 30 years at this point, have tech'ed clinics for the likes of Weckl, Erskine and Garibaldi (INCREDIBLY nice to me to the point of writing a thank you note to my boss for my service), and many others etc., and I can say categorically that a small round box tends to be the EXACT SAME VOLUME as a large round box, which is to say no volume at all. However, when hitting said round boxes with sticks and applying increasing pressure (i.e., hitting harder) a smaller drum WILL get louder sooner/faster than a bigger drum, because there's far less air to move for the smaller drum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Leftcoast123 Posted May 11, 2012 Members Share Posted May 11, 2012 Well, I AM a drummer, and have been playing gigs for nearing 30 years at this point, have tech'ed clinics for the likes of Weckl, Erskine and Garibaldi (INCREDIBLY nice to me to the point of writing a thank you note to my boss for my service), and many others etc., and I can say categorically that a small round box tends to be the EXACT SAME VOLUME as a large round box, which is to say no volume at all. However, when hitting said round boxes with sticks and applying increasing pressure (i.e., hitting harder) a smaller drum WILL get louder sooner/faster than a bigger drum, because there's far less air to move for the smaller drum. Amen brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Consume Posted May 12, 2012 Members Share Posted May 12, 2012 ... and incidentally, I have heard cymbals and snare overwhelm a room 70x110 ft with over 200 people in it without being miced. Normally, this happens when a drummer has their cymbals up above their heads. If the cymbals are mounted around ear height, and the tendency is to not lay into them as hard because they are louder to the drummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted May 12, 2012 Members Share Posted May 12, 2012 Take a drum machine and place it on his drum stool ,, and put a post it note saying ,, this thing can play quiet and is happy to give us his split Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted May 12, 2012 Members Share Posted May 12, 2012 Normally, this happens when a drummer has their cymbals up above their heads. If the cymbals are mounted around ear height, and the tendency is to not lay into them as hard because they are louder to the drummer. They were also HUGE cymbals .... and yes, they were high come to think of it. The snare however, was low I think the gorilla hits were the culprit on the snare. Plus, some drummers don't get it that not EVERY snare hit needs to be a rim shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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