PA owners/operators/band member

[StratGuy22]

I have enough rig for the gig. I think I lost a horn driver. $45 repair.

 

 

Not big enough to worry about.

 

 

 

Quality gear, ran within its limits, no problemo.

 

 

 

 

I pay myself a flat rate, whatever the going rate is for someone to do the exact same thing as me. In fairness if I can't do a gig then the whole band can't fall apart because of bad numbers. Repairs and upgrades are handled by me only as well.

 

My band was a 4 piece when I joined, so they all took a 20% cut when I joined. I wasn't about to say "oh and I need an extra $300 for PA per gig" when we upped our price, we included the extra $100 for me. Like I said the extra muscle on their part helps defray the extra dollars I'm not getting.

 

If I was in the band, I'd be cool with the $100. I'd be cool with $300 as well.

 

Except.

 

If we were paying $300 I would want to walk in, plug in and play. And after, unplug and leave without lifting a finger for moving any gear etc.

 

 

So what we have works for everyone.

[SpaceNorman]

 

It's my PA, it's my responsibility.

 

 

This goes for me too.

[dcastar]

A lot of you on this board have mentioned that you own the PA for the band you play in. My question is this. If you own the PA, transport and set it up as well as operate it do you take a separate cut or fee for the equipment. I am a single act and have thought about maybe going to a duo and was wondering how this all works. BTW, I own all of the PA equipment.

 

 

Yes, I use a separate "cost-container" that gets paid for Gear Upgrades/Upkeep, Truck Expenses, Gas, Hotel, Truck Insurance, Gear Insurance, Business Liability, etc...

[W. M. Hellinger]

It's my PA, it's my responsibility.

 

Ditto.

 

However, my fellow band members are helpful & very careful... and if something gets messed up, they fall all over themselves to make sure I'm not bearing the full brunt for the cost and/or labor to fix things back up.

[W. M. Hellinger]

I wonder where this industry will go... it's interesting times to say the least.

An acquaintance of mine plays in a band and recently, his band put on a CD release party in a major metropolitan city. The band had spent somewhere on the order of $15K recording the CD... that band is one of those A1 on the jukebox and nowhere on the charts type bands... really good performers (entertainers) and a couple of good song writers in the band. Anyhoo... at their CD release party, a gal came up to my acquaintance asking if he could sign her CD? She was bubbling over with enthusiam... "I just love you guys, you're the best band in the world!" Anyhoo... my acquaintance didn't know how to handle the situation... sign the CD or not... BECAUSE: It was a burned copy of their CD that they were releasing at that party... being a CD that only a few advance CD's had gone out. And the gal had this look on her face like that just doesn't compute when my acquaintance meekly suggested to her that she's asking a band member to sign a burned CD at that CD's release party.

What next? Burned CD holders asking the band for the money it cost to burn the CD to cover the costs of listening to their music?

I dunno...

[stevemaude2]

Ditto on the my PA my responsibility.

Not only that, but if I could afford it, I would hire roadies and a sound person at every gig and play for free.

[Mike M]

Maybe every band member should be responsible for the means to make their instrument "heard"?
A drummer brings a drum kit which means he/she needs a vehicle that can transport such. A guitarist brings his/her guitar and amp...same for the bass player..keys player..
What then should a vocalist do....bring the PA?

If the band's drummer/guitarist/bassist/keyboardist, brings the PA, he/she should receive extra compensation. If the vocalist brings the PA no extra compensation...
Yes, a vocalist's voice is his/her instrument but the reality is that the external gear for voice to be heard is the PA.

PA's cost $ to purchase/repair, take a while to set up prior to the gig (besides chasing adequate power/logistics) and a while to break down after the gig.

....just some random thoughts...
Mike M

[modulusman]

Maybe every band member should be responsible for the means to make their instrument "heard"? A drummer brings a drum kit which means he/she needs a vehicle that can transport such. A guitarist brings his/her guitar and amp...same for the bass player..keys player.. What then should a vocalist do....bring the PA? If the band's drummer/guitarist/bassist/keyboardist, brings the PA, he/she should receive extra compensation. If the vocalist brings the PA no extra compensation... Yes, a vocalist's voice is his/her instrument but the reality is that the external gear for voice to be heard is the PA. PA's cost $ to purchase/repair, take a while to set up prior to the gig (besides chasing adequate power/logistics) and a while to break down after the gig. ....just some random thoughts... Mike M

So Sax players get a pass then. Any band that actually wants to get paid decent money isn't going to be using a {censored} on stick vocal only PA.

[gruven65]

I don't have a problem giving a percentage to whomever owns the PA, for upkeep. We're a band. We all use the gear. We all chip in for transportation costs, as well. We store our live gear in a trailer and one member pulls it to and from.

[Rbts]

The money doesn't really matter. (Sorry.) (Wish it did.) I'll say that again - (Wish it did.).

 

I have about $ 15,000 "invested" in the equipment my "band" uses - and even if I took ALL the money we "earn" - it would take years till that "investment" was paid back. (Shrugs.)

 

I am just lucky - that I have been able to "come up with" that money - and there is a PA and instruments to use.

 

I am just lucky to be in a situation where I am a "music maker" and I am lucky to have some great guys to work with. If there ever is any "money" to worry about - I'll worry about it then. For now - just try to keep things "fair" - which of course means that the guy who provides all the sound and light equipment probably should get a little "extra" - but - does it really matter that much? Frankly - the guys I am playing with need the money more than I do - so I let them have it.

 

Making music is "almost" a "sacred activity". Do you really need to get paid for it? Certainly - if your band gets to the point where it is generating enough money to actually "support" 5 or 6 or 10 FAMILIES - (say revenues of around $ 500,000 a year) - then it has turned into a "business" and probably needs to be looked at a little differently. Until then - just worry about if everyone is being treated "respectfully" - so no one's "feelings" get hurt.

[Mutha Goose]

For my band, I provide the lights and PA. I transport everything in a trailer and usually set it all up alone (though it is nice to have help loading in). The band helps breakdown and load out. I operate the lights while playing and we hire a fader jockey for the PA. I take money off the top for the PA (my band gets a discounted rate), plus we pay the fader jockey. I would rather hire out for sound, but the cost for an equivollent quality PA and operator would be prohibitive for regular use.

Repairs and upgrades are 100% on my shoulders. Repairs are rare due to using the systems withing their bounds but I do keep an inventory of spare parts so if something does happen, I can be back up and running the next day.

[abzurd]

 

The money doesn't really matter. (Sorry.) (Wish it did.) I'll say that again - (Wish it did.). I have about $ 15,000 "invested" in the equipment my "band" uses - and even if I took ALL the money we "earn" - it would take years till that "investment" was paid back. (Shrugs.) I am just lucky - that I have been able to "come up with" that money - and there is a PA and instruments to use. I am just lucky to be in a situation where I am a "music maker" and I am lucky to have some great guys to work with. If there ever is any "money" to worry about - I'll worry about it then. For now - just try to keep things "fair" - which of course means that the guy who provides all the sound and light equipment probably should get a little "extra" - but - does it really matter that much? Frankly - the guys I am playing with need the money more than I do - so I let them have it. Making music is "almost" a "sacred activity". Do you really need to get paid for it? Certainly - if your band gets to the point where it is generating enough money to actually "support" 5 or 6 or 10 FAMILIES - (say revenues of around $ 500,000 a year) - then it has turned into a "business" and probably needs to be looked at a little differently. Until then - just worry about if everyone is being treated "respectfully" - so no one's "feelings" get hurt.

 

 

I get what you're saying, but there are 2 ways to look at that exact situation. In my band the guys won't hear of me NOT taking money for the PA. They understand all the capital and the work I've put into the band and that they are reaping the benefits.. Like you, most of my guys need the money. They understand that 2 major factors contributing to being paid considerably more than when we started out is the work I've done with both my time and my wallet. They respect that and want to pay me for it. In fact they gave me a raise a few years ago, not feeling that I was getting what I should out of it. Of course it makes it easier when the take home for each guy still ends up being 3X-5X the run of the mill Saturday night bar gig.

[Mutha Goose]

...just worry about if everyone is being treated "respectfully" ...

 

 

I put an average of 3-4 more hours into every gig we play vs. every other member of my band. "Repectfully", shouldn't I get a slightly larger cut of the pie (even without factoring in my investment or added stress this brings)?

[SteinbergerHack]

 

I put an average of 3-4 more hours into every gig we play vs. every other member of my band. "Repectfully", shouldn't I get a slightly larger cut of the pie (even without factoring in my investment or added stress this brings)?

 

 

Sure, that's a justifiable view, and certainly fair from a financial perspective. Speaking for myself, though, I would sell all the gear and have the band rent PA before I'd let it become a point of contention. Everyone has different reasons for putting in the extra effort and money to deal with the gear, so everyone's expectations are a bit different.

[Telecruiser]

Yes, a vocalist's voice is his/her instrument but the reality is that the external gear for voice to be heard is the PA.

What if the vocalist brought a PA just for their voice? Two mains, one mon and one mic?

[Rbts]

 

I put an average of 3-4 more hours into every gig we play vs. every other member of my band. "Repectfully", shouldn't I get a slightly larger cut of the pie (even without factoring in my investment or added stress this brings)?

 

 

Sure - I'd have no problem with that.

[Mutha Goose]

Sure, that's a justifiable view, and certainly fair from a financial perspective. Speaking for myself, though, I would sell all the gear and have the band rent PA before I'd let it become a point of contention. Everyone has different reasons for putting in the extra effort and money to deal with the gear, so everyone's expectations are a bit different.

I couldn't agree more. I don't offer up my PA to get rich! (that's for sure ) And I deffinately wouldn't let it be a point of contention. In fact, I would rather we hired out. It would make my life SO much easier and allow me to enjoy more of the gig with less stress. In my band (and I know this isn't the case with everyone), my time, expertese and PA are appreciated and they see the value ($) in the services I provide.

We did have one drummer that had an issue with me making more than everyone else. We have a different (and better) drummer now. He was dissagreeable on many things, not just this.

[Rbts]

 

I get what you're saying, but there are 2 ways to look at that exact situation. In my band the guys won't hear of me NOT taking money for the PA. They understand all the capital and the work I've put into the band and that they are reaping the benefits.. Like you, most of my guys need the money. They understand that 2 major factors contributing to being paid considerably more than when we started out is the work I've done with both my time and my wallet. They respect that and want to pay me for it. In fact they gave me a raise a few years ago, not feeling that I was getting what I should out of it. Of course it makes it easier when the take home for each guy still ends up being 3X-5X the run of the mill Saturday night bar gig.

 

 

It is awesome that your bandmates understand your contribution - and awesome that it is paying off. I think that is great!

[Mike M]

So Sax players get a pass then. .

Yup, I play LOUD!!!

Mike M

[StratGuy22]

Yup, I play LOUD!!! Mike M

 

 

 

[Shaster]

It's interesting how different PA owners and PA users feel about PA compensation. No right or wrong, just interesting.

 

For instance, if I was in a band and the band needed $10k to $20k of guitars, drums, keyboards and amplifiers, I don't think anyone would expect me to buy them. But if I own $10k to $20k worth of PA gear then it's alright to use that for free. I'm making no judgement calls here, but perception is a funny thing. Kind of like the girl with the burned CD that Mark mentioned - she just couldn't grasp what the problem was. I guess it's all how you look at it.

 

In my case, I don't play in any cooperative groups so I always charge - even if it's peanuts.

[gspointer]

I don't charge, and one reason is my insurance. I have a homeowners policy with a rider for my PA. I discussed it with my agent and as long as I am not profiting from my PA, I am OK. He knows I use it at gigs, but because I earn no more than my band mated, I am covered. (hopefully I will never find out)

[donkey 12]

 

It's interesting how different PA owners and PA users feel about PA compensation. No right or wrong, just interesting. For instance, if I was in a band and the band needed $10k to $20k of guitars, drums, keyboards and amplifiers, I don't think anyone would expect me to buy them. But if I own $10k to $20k worth of PA gear then it's alright to use that for free. I'm making no judgement calls here, but perception is a funny thing. Kind of like the girl with the burned CD that Mark mentioned - she just couldn't grasp what the problem was. I guess it's all how you look at it. In my case, I don't play in any cooperative groups so I always charge - even if it's peanuts.

 

 

What you say makes perfect sense. However, I think there are seemingly infinite circumstances when it comes to musical groups and equipment. I play in an acoustic duo and have about $1K total in my PA. My partner and I split our pat evenly even though I supply the PA because she contributes in other ways, like driving and hour and a half most weekends for us to practice for many years. The time, the gas, etc., in my estimate, costs more that what I have in the PA. Just my opinion...

[Shaster]

 

What you say makes perfect sense. However, I think there are seemingly infinite circumstances when it comes to musical groups and equipment. I play in an acoustic duo and have about $1K total in my PA. My partner and I split our pat evenly even though I supply the PA because she contributes in other ways, like driving and hour and a half most weekends for us to practice for many years. The time, the gas, etc., in my estimate, costs more that what I have in the PA. Just my opinion...

 

 

Absolutely, there are many different mitigating circumstances. That's why there really isn't a right or wrong answer when dealing with PA rental.

 

But I'm still amazed by how people in the industry view PA's in so many different ways. Like the bands that will spend thousands on their instruments but $500 on a PA. Or a veteran vocalist who will go to plug their mic into a house PA and say, I brought my mic but I forgot my cable. After decades in the biz, some vocalists only own one mic, one cable, and one mic stand. As Spock would say "fascinating".