Members agedhorse Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 Aged, can you give us some examples of these differences that cause real problems? I ask as someone seriously considering this mixer. RoadRanger posted a link to the thread, but one major thing was the difference between measured threshold, indication and action of the limiting (IIRC there was a few dB descrepency plus a few dB of hysteresis in the limiters), as you get close to the MOL, there was some limiting or gain reduction and hysteresis there too even though it was not indicated anywhere. There was also an issue where the aux outputs were listed and labeled as balanced even though they were impedance compensated. This can make for interface problems under some circumstances if you are unaware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted September 27, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 Generally true, but there are things that do not work exactly as the manual says they do, I've measured and verified exactly and the difference is enough to cause some folks some real problems. If you know what to avoid, it's not a big deal but if you don't know, it can result in some unexpected results. The manual is made obsolete everytime there is a firmware upgrade. Upgraded manuals are available at the Personus site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted September 27, 2012 CMS Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 The manual is made obsolete everytime there is a firmware upgrade. Upgraded manuals are available at the Personus site. So the specs Andy mentions were accurately documented at one point and have been rendered inaccurate by a firmware update or updates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted September 27, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 So the specs Andy mentions were accurately documented at one point and have been rendered inaccurate by a firmware update or updates? I don't know, I haven't checked or confirmed his findings. None of them have been an issue for me. But, new features have been added and some procedures have changed that are not in the printed manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted September 27, 2012 CMS Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 I don't know, I haven't checked or confirmed his findings. None of them have been an issue for me. But, new features have been added and some procedures have changed that are not in the printed manual. I don't see how research would correct any of the issues Andy listed in the manual, or the problems I listed on Page 1, from the other forum's thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiroVette Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 You know what? I just joined up on the Presonus Forum. I am going to start asking questions there about the reliability issues n addition to reading over the ones listed and linked to in this thread. I would really love to see what people over there have to say about the issues you guys have brought up and I don't see any threads dealing with those common problems. So maybe I will create one or two in the "Pre Sales" forum over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted September 27, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 I don't see how research would correct any of the issues Andy listed in the manual, or the problems I listed on Page 1, from the other forum's thread. I give up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted September 27, 2012 CMS Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 I give up! Sure you don't want a bigger shovel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiroVette Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 I had one in my shop for a couple of weeks and I thoroughly ran it through a series of tests and noted the places where there were issues. I was pretty thorough in my comments and I would not consider myself a "harshest critic", just very realistic in my expectations and requirements for my clients.Could you please post those comments here or if you posted them in the forum, can you give me a link? I ask because I am not sure what to make of all of this back and forth regarding reliability of the StudioLive products and am considering purchasing the 24 channel mixer. Thanks Aged! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted September 27, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 Sure you don't want a bigger shovel? Insults like that are uncalled for! Where's a moderator when you need one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiroVette Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 Okay, for what it's worth, I started this thread in the Official Forum: http://forums.presonus.com/posts/list/28932.page Hopefully we'll get some answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted September 27, 2012 CMS Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 Insults like that are uncalled for! What exactly did you think I meant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiroVette Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 Insults like that are uncalled for! Where's a moderator when you need one? Hey there, honestly, I have NO IDEA which one of you is right in this debate, but I would like to say that while Craigv's comment is a little harsh, it is NOT exactly a real insult or uncalled for as you are suggesting. I don't see any TOS violations or Craig violating his mod position or abusing it to get away with flaming or other rule-breaking. His comment is certainly a strong one, but as debates go, he is not really getting personal or attacking you so much as attacking your point and your argument with the shovel comment. I think you would have a beef if he was calling you names, cursing you, or flaming you. But asking you if you need a bigger shovel is NOT stepping over any lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members voicemaster Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 My church is using SL 24.4.2 and it has been great. My church is a small church with 70-100 members every week total attendance. For this application, the SL is more than enough to provide good sound for each session. It is not perfect, but it has done a great job. I did have a few problems with the board, but all of them is my own fault as I am still learning of all the features and what the board can or can't do. Most of the problems are firewire recording and I am not used to firewire connection at all (I am a PC guy) which I wished the SL use USB connector instead, but other than that, none. We used to use Tascam DM-24 which PSU crapped out during service forcing us to go acoustic. For the right application, expectation and qualification, this SL board will most likely perform greatly even with the flaws. I am by no means a sound engineer or even someone whose major in sound production or whatever.Just offering my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 Another gig coming up this weekend. 3 bands Recording Remote mixing I'll drop a quick note as to how it turns out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 The manual is made obsolete everytime there is a firmware upgrade. Upgraded manuals are available at the Personus site. The manual matched the board at the time the product was sold. That's all I had to work with of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 As a reminder, I am not saying that it's a bad product at all. IMO, it's a pretty darn good product for it's intended catagory. I was pointing out the areas where the manual and the performance didn't match what the manual said or what the indicators showed. If you stay away from these limitations, it's pretty much a non-issue but IMO you need to know where these limtations exist as I can see the typical non-pro user going there without realizing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiroVette Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 As a reminder, I am not saying that it's a bad product at all. IMO, it's a pretty darn good product for it's intended catagory. I was pointing out the areas where the manual and the performance didn't match what the manual said or what the indicators showed. If you stay away from these limitations, it's pretty much a non-issue but IMO you need to know where these limtations exist as I can see the typical non-pro user going there without realizing it. Just in case you missed my post above, can you give me a link to the issues you mentioned that you had documented in your initial experience with that board, or post the info if you haven't posted it yet? I would be very interested in a comprehensive list from an unbiased expert like yourself. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 Aged, can you give us some examples of these differences that cause real problems? I ask as someone seriously considering this mixer. RTFT, post #28 LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?2778760-Testing-a-Studio-Live-16...-questions-for-those-experienced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiroVette Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?2778760-Testing-a-Studio-Live-16...-questions-for-those-experienced Reading it now. THANKS brother!! Would you believe that the thread I created in the official forum early this afternoon has gone completely unanswered. lol 35 views, but no responses. I may post your experiences cut and pasted, leaving your name out of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 Reading it now. THANKS brother!!Would you believe that the thread I created in the official forum early this afternoon has gone completely unanswered. lol 35 views, but no responses. I may post your experiences cut and pasted, leaving your name out of course. It's a very complex piece of gear at a reasonable cost. Because of this, I would expect some challenges, and it's also specifically why I tested one before assuming anything. Unfortunately it made me unpopular to some fanboys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiroVette Posted September 28, 2012 Members Share Posted September 28, 2012 It's a very complex piece of gear at a reasonable cost. Because of this, I would expect some challenges, and it's also specifically why I tested one before assuming anything. Unfortunately it made me unpopular to some fanboys. lol Well I am kind of a fanboy, too, even though I don't own one. But I have studied this mixer, watched a ton of videos, and I feel as if I am almost ready to mix on it even though I have never touched one or seen one up close. But that is very much beside the point. Because even though I have kind of fallen in love with the mixer, sight unseen, I want the skinny on it so I am an informed consumer and NOT a {censored}ing victim. So, yeah, keep the great info coming and to hell with the fanboys who object to a little thing called logic and reason in lieu of blind worship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MFlanagan Posted September 28, 2012 Members Share Posted September 28, 2012 Anyone who is in the Boston area that would like to lay hands on a 16.4.2 is welcome to take a look at mine. I will be doing a gig tomorrow night 15 minutes from my home and then another gig on Saturday 5 hours away in Jay, NY. I'll see if I can get some pics and maybe even some video of the events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted September 28, 2012 Members Share Posted September 28, 2012 People can say what they want. Mine has been fine. Operator error on updating the firmware is what caused me to lose the effects. It was fixed. I do gig after gig with it. Call me what you want. I'll just continue doing gig after gig after gig with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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