CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted September 25, 2012 CMS Author Share Posted September 25, 2012 I don't think that there is an intention to discredit the board. I think it is smart to ask a group of professionals about their experiences with a product before you make a purchase. I do have a bit of an issue with people that are offering "advise and critique" on a board that they don't own or use regularly. To say that you had a walkon gig that had a SL and you had a problem - and now advise someone that they shouldn't purchase the board based on that experience - is not fair to the board or the person considering it.For me the decision was based on the feature set of the board, the ability to leave the outboard rack at home and being able to adjust monitors while standing next to the performer. Mixing from the iPad and having the board just off stage took a bit of getting used to but now I just can't imagine doing it any other way. The musicians love their monitor mixes (and just recently the ability to adjust them themselves via their iPhones using the QMix app) since I am standing next to them and hearing what they hear as we EQ them. I LOVE not running 100' of snake to the back of the venue. And finally the club owners appreciate that I am not taking space away from their dining area or dance floor to setup my gear.All of this would go out the window if I couldn't count on the board performing each night. So far - no issues. So for me it was the right decision and one that I would make again given the experience I have had over the past few years. I'm mystiified by the continued strawman argument that someone is telling others not to purchase the board. Who is that, and where is the post saying this? I can't possibly imagine being any more fair about discussing the issue of reliability and the problems reported in that poll/thread. There's been no bashing, no recommendations, nothing but discussing how the issues being reported would affect use, and where reliability falls in the realm of purchase priorities. I can delete this thread entirely. Would you like me to do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueGreene Posted September 25, 2012 Members Share Posted September 25, 2012 I think that was hypothetical. "I don't think that there is an intention to discredit the board. " I personally really enjoy this thread, please don't delete it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MFlanagan Posted September 25, 2012 Members Share Posted September 25, 2012 Craig, Sorry - The "don't buy this board" was more of a general frustration from many threads in multiple forums NOT this particular thread. I thought that I was clear that I find this discussion valuable and of great benefit to those considering a purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted September 25, 2012 CMS Author Share Posted September 25, 2012 I personally really enjoy this thread, please don't delete it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MFlanagan Posted September 25, 2012 Members Share Posted September 25, 2012 This just to add to how valuable these forums and discussions are - I will be looking to significantly upgrade my speakers early next year. I will be doing more and more outdoor mini-festival type gigs and my current rig just doesn't cut it. Right now I am looking at the RCF NX ground stack array but I still have a lot of research and questions to ask. I hope that when I get ready to make a decision between a few options, I will be able to post those questions and have people who have experience with the products chime in with what they think of them in the manner I wish to deploy them. I am sure I will get many positive recommendations and many negative thoughts. It will be up to me to take all of that in, process the results and make a decision. This will be a $20K - $25K investment so trust me I will listen to all comments but ultimately it is up to me to go and listen to the product and decide for myself if it is worth the investment. So please, everyone should continue to post their experiences but at the same time should preface either positive or negative comments with whether or not they actually own the product. I'll give far more credit in my decision making process to comments coming from someone with actual hands on experience as compared to someone who is commenting based on what they have read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted September 25, 2012 Members Share Posted September 25, 2012 Another great gig this weekend. Mixed via iPad. No issues at all, except for being dragged onto the dance floor by a couple of pretty blondes. That's the third time, I've been forced to mix a song or 3 from the dance floor This weekend is another 3 band gig, it will be similar to this, packed, and I'll be in the middle, mixing. It will be similar to this. Crowded, fun, hot n sweaty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted September 25, 2012 CMS Author Share Posted September 25, 2012 Craig,Sorry - The "don't buy this board" was more of a general frustration from many threads in multiple forums NOT this particular thread. I thought that I was clear that I find this discussion valuable and of great benefit to those considering a purchase. I was composing my last post when you posted this. I had no way of knowing your reference to other forums. Given that you're saying there's a lot of discussion about reliability of the board in other forums, I'd have to reiterate what was posted earlier asking why there's so much talk about this if there's no issue? I tend to not put a lot of weight into conspiracy, as I've never seen this happen, but it's certainly possible for a few very vocal people to post all over the place. If they use different names in different forums, this can make one person seem like many. It pays to know your forum membership and to note who's the same person in other forums to minimize this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 25, 2012 Members Share Posted September 25, 2012 When you get ready to make your line array purchase, let me know. I have a set of 8 that are ground stackable that will be available in the near future and it's based on an early RCF TT conceptual. I ended up with 32 of these and will not need them all soon. This just to add to how valuable these forums and discussions are - I will be looking to significantly upgrade my speakers early next year. I will be doing more and more outdoor mini-festival type gigs and my current rig just doesn't cut it. Right now I am looking at the RCF NX ground stack array but I still have a lot of research and questions to ask. I hope that when I get ready to make a decision between a few options, I will be able to post those questions and have people who have experience with the products chime in with what they think of them in the manner I wish to deploy them.I am sure I will get many positive recommendations and many negative thoughts. It will be up to me to take all of that in, process the results and make a decision. This will be a $20K - $25K investment so trust me I will listen to all comments but ultimately it is up to me to go and listen to the product and decide for myself if it is worth the investment.So please, everyone should continue to post their experiences but at the same time should preface either positive or negative comments with whether or not they actually own the product. I'll give far more credit in my decision making process to comments coming from someone with actual hands on experience as compared to someone who is commenting based on what they have read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted September 25, 2012 CMS Author Share Posted September 25, 2012 This just to add to how valuable these forums and discussions are - I will be looking to significantly upgrade my speakers early next year. I will be doing more and more outdoor mini-festival type gigs and my current rig just doesn't cut it. Right now I am looking at the RCF NX ground stack array but I still have a lot of research and questions to ask. I hope that when I get ready to make a decision between a few options, I will be able to post those questions and have people who have experience with the products chime in with what they think of them in the manner I wish to deploy them.I am sure I will get many positive recommendations and many negative thoughts. It will be up to me to take all of that in, process the results and make a decision. This will be a $20K - $25K investment so trust me I will listen to all comments but ultimately it is up to me to go and listen to the product and decide for myself if it is worth the investment.So please, everyone should continue to post their experiences but at the same time should preface either positive or negative comments with whether or not they actually own the product. I'll give far more credit in my decision making process to comments coming from someone with actual hands on experience as compared to someone who is commenting based on what they have read. Regarding use/ownership vs non; this is interesting, as I personally give equal weight to both. Why? Because all I take away from a comment is that I should be aware of the possibility of the info I was offered. I can't use comments in web forums as statistics...the sample size is way too small, there's no control to ensure honesty or accuracy, and therefore I can only be made aware of something that I should investigate personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MFlanagan Posted September 25, 2012 Members Share Posted September 25, 2012 IF (big if, but still....) the responses over there are any indication of overall reliability, then I'd have to question why you'd consider the Presonus to be an "upgrade". I could live with the issues mentioned IF the board was only used for practice, but that's a lot of coin to have to put up with anything less than reliable. And Craig - I have no intention of stirring the pot or causing problems but your comment that "no one is suggesting not to buy the board" isn't quite accurate. Although you do not say "Don't buy this board" you do imply that based on the "issues" you read elsewhere you don't seem to think the board is reliable enough for live use. This is your opinion of the product and you have every right to that opinion. I happen to disagree based on my 3 years of live use but then I am only 1 opinion as well. So I guess we just need to keep the discussion moving forward, maintain a civil manner and respect ALL opinions. It's tough in a forum environment to correctly portray emotions and intent in comments but trust me - all of my posts have been with a smile on my face and a calm and respectful voice :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MFlanagan Posted September 25, 2012 Members Share Posted September 25, 2012 When you get ready to make your line array purchase, let me know. I have a set of 8 that are ground stackable that will be available in the near future and it's based on an early RCF TT conceptual. I ended up with 32 of these and will not need them all soon. Awesome! If you can PM me some details I would love to look into them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiroVette Posted September 25, 2012 Members Share Posted September 25, 2012 And Craig - I have no intention of stirring the pot or causing problems but your comment that "no one is suggesting not to buy the board" isn't quite accurate. Although you do not say "Don't buy this board" you do imply that based on the "issues" you read elsewhere you don't seem to think the board is reliable enough for live use. This is your opinion of the product and you have every right to that opinion. I happen to disagree based on my 3 years of live use but then I am only 1 opinion as well. So I guess we just need to keep the discussion moving forward, maintain a civil manner and respect ALL opinions. It's tough in a forum environment to correctly portray emotions and intent in comments but trust me - all of my posts have been with a smile on my face and a calm and respectful voice :-) FYI, didn't interpret his posts that way. To me, he seemed to be giving a caveat with regard to the mixers not discouraging people from buying. The difference may seem subtle, but calling attention to a known issue or flaw in a product is honestly part of giving good information. Like I said above, that's why most good reviews have sections for "The Good" as well as "The Bad." The bad column is not to dissuade people as much as it is to impart information in a weighted manner. For my part, so far it seems like the 24 Channel StudioLive is going to be my mixer of choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MFlanagan Posted September 25, 2012 Members Share Posted September 25, 2012 And therein lies the problem with forum based conversations. I may have completely misread the intent of the comment. Without the ability to immediately ask "So you don't think I should buy this board for my live gigs?" and have him respond back "No. That's not what I am saying..." it makes these "conversations" difficult. I guess all I am trying to get across - and maybe I am just not doing a good enough job - is that while I appreciate threads like this with healthy discussions back and forth, I just hope that people only give the comments and advice given here a portion of the overall purchase decision process. Get out and see the equipment yourself. Either go to a local bricks and mortar store and put your hands on it or even better yet - find someone that owns the product and ask them if you can join them at their next gig to see it in action. I'm just a guy with a whopping 20 posts on this forum that has a single opinion (albeit a strong one) on the particular product being discussed. I will be sure to post thoughtfully and give full consideration as to how a post may be interpreted regardless of what I meant to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted September 25, 2012 CMS Author Share Posted September 25, 2012 And Craig - I have no intention of stirring the pot or causing problems but your comment that "no one is suggesting not to buy the board" isn't quite accurate. Although you do not say "Don't buy this board" you do imply that based on the "issues" you read elsewhere you don't seem to think the board is reliable enough for live use. This is your opinion of the product and you have every right to that opinion. I happen to disagree based on my 3 years of live use but then I am only 1 opinion as well.So I guess we just need to keep the discussion moving forward, maintain a civil manner and respect ALL opinions. It's tough in a forum environment to correctly portray emotions and intent in comments but trust me - all of my posts have been with a smile on my face and a calm and respectful voice :-) You're not causing any problems as far as I can see. I think being clear about what we write is important, as important as reading carefully. In my first post I stated that *I* would not want to use this board for anything more than practice, based on what I've read about it. Saying that *I* wouldn't use it live only says what it says...it doesn't imply what others should do. And in several posts I repeatedly stated that people should look at polls and posts for what they are: individual anecdotes. I also repeatedly stated that we should place reliability in the list of pros and cons when considering whether a purchase is or isn't an upgrade from some other product. I stated we should determine whether it's a high priority or not. Since this wasn't clear enough (and that's not a sarcastic comment..it's a failure of the writer (me) to convey a point if it's consistently interpreted differently than intended) I'll state plainly: I am concerned about the reliability of this mixer. There are a lot of comments about problems, and I base this concern on them. I would not purchase the product personally, until I detemrined the validity of the complaints, and the resolution provided by Presonus. I'd LOVE for someone from Presonus to post here (HINT HINT HINT...we know you're out there.....) to address the issues mentioned. Would I recommend for or against a purchuse by someone else? I wouldn't make a recommendation either way until the stuff I just listed was answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted September 25, 2012 Members Share Posted September 25, 2012 http://forums.presonus.com/forums/list.page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MFlanagan Posted September 25, 2012 Members Share Posted September 25, 2012 Since this wasn't clear enough (and that's not a sarcastic comment..it's a failure of the writer (me) to convey a point if it's consistently interpreted differently than intended) I'll state plainly: I am concerned about the reliability of this mixer. There are a lot of comments about problems, and I base this concern on them. I would not purchase the product personally, until I detemrined the validity of the complaints, and the resolution provided by Presonus. I'd LOVE for someone from Presonus to post here (HINT HINT HINT...we know you're out there.....) to address the issues mentioned. Would I recommend for or against a purchuse by someone else? I wouldn't make a recommendation either way until the stuff I just listed was answered. Now that is a clearly stated position that I can respect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted September 25, 2012 CMS Author Share Posted September 25, 2012 http://forums.presonus.com/forums/list.page I'd like it if a Presonus employee would address the issues, here. An ongoing thing, as the product evolves. There are a number of members here who work for manufacturers and kindly address various issues and questions about their products: dboomer (formerly Peavey, then Sabine, now Line 6), Soundman (Peavey), KarlW (Lectrsonics), agedhorse (Genz-Benz) and boseengineer (Bose) and I'm certain I'm leaving someone out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted September 26, 2012 Members Share Posted September 26, 2012 I always suggest that anyone considering purchasing a new piece of gear go out and play it/listen to it themselves whenever possible. It is nice to have people here give their evaluation of how the products work when used "in anger" (ie real life rigorous situations). Some of them will see 100 times the usage I (and most bar band PA users) will. They also have the advantage of using MANY more different types of gear than I have used which gives their advice a more rounded view. Occasionally, we even hear from the factory reps (and hopefully will in this thread as well ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiroVette Posted September 26, 2012 Members Share Posted September 26, 2012 I am hoping we hear from a factory rep in here, too. I perused the Presonus Official Forum and found no threads that dealt with "common problems" or known issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted September 26, 2012 Members Share Posted September 26, 2012 I am hoping we hear from a factory rep in here, too. I perused the Presonus Official Forum and found no threads that dealt with "common problems" or known issues. Really? Then you're not looking in the right place. The StudioLive forums are largely a bitch-fest. 1/3 of the posts are people mistaking the forums for the service department. Another 1/3 are people suggesting or complaining about features they want. The rest is the "other stuff". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiroVette Posted September 26, 2012 Members Share Posted September 26, 2012 Abzurd, I specifically looked only for the reliability issues discussed in this thread, and not all that other stuff. That is what I have had trouble finding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 Really? Then you're not looking in the right place. The StudioLive forums are largely a bitch-fest. 1/3 of the posts are people mistaking the forums for the service department. Another 1/3 are people suggesting or complaining about features they want. The rest is the "other stuff". Hey Abzurd, how have you managed to keep your gig schedule using a SL? From some of the posts on the web, it appears that you have been blessed by the hand of God Seriously though, I do know several bands in my area that use the SL, sound good, and have good luck with the reliability. Of course, my sample size is very small Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted September 27, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 Hey Abzurd, how have you managed to keep your gig schedule using a SL? From some of the posts on the web, it appears that you have been blessed by the hand of God Seriously though, I do know several bands in my area that use the SL, sound good, and have good luck with the reliability. Of course, my sample size is very small Well count me in as one of them! The vast majority of "problems" mentioned would have been avoided with the proper research and knowledge of the product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 Well count me in as one of them! The vast majority of "problems" mentioned would have been avoided with the proper research and knowledge of the product. Generally true, but there are things that do not work exactly as the manual says they do, I've measured and verified exactly and the difference is enough to cause some folks some real problems. If you know what to avoid, it's not a big deal but if you don't know, it can result in some unexpected results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiroVette Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 Generally true, but there are things that do not work exactly as the manual says they do, I've measured and verified exactly and the difference is enough to cause some folks some real problems. If you know what to avoid, it's not a big deal but if you don't know, it can result in some unexpected results. Aged, can you give us some examples of these differences that cause real problems? I ask as someone seriously considering this mixer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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