Members RoadRanger Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 I think most folks here would rate the club series IV or V tops as good minimum entry grade stuff. I personally would rate the Peavey "PV" and "PR" stuff about the same if you factor in the lighter weight . The Yamaha "A" and "BR" series as well as the JBL "JRX" series are a step below that. I've used stuff at that level with success but you just can't expect it to perform as well as the better stuff. Depending on the room size you might have to use the stage amps to carry the room so that the PA can concentrate on the vocals and kick. For some strange reason bands with crappy PA's tend to have top notch instrument amps . Good bands actually care about the sound quality the audience experiences and not just getting "their tone" on-stage . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarman3001 Posted December 14, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Well, if I do manage to convince the band to upgrade, it would be to 15s and not to 12s unless it's a dual 12 cabinet. I think I'd still rather have single 15s instead of dual 12s though. And forget about Peavey. I don't like their PA stuff. If the rest of the band wants to buy Peavey, that's their choice but a suggestion to buy Peavey won't come from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 The Club series subs are no better than the PV118. Just sayin' . And especially if you're running subs, 12's are a much better choice that 15's if you want your vocals clear. You have to spend a lot of money on a 15 to get one as clear as most 12's. If you want to utterly destroy folks hearing a pair of properly powered and processed SRX712M's will do that no prob in a typical small club/bar . BTW with either a Club or Peavey setup I'd want subs running 2x the power of the tops indoors - usually two 18" subs for each 12" top. Below that you end up dialing down the tops to not overpower the subs. Your single PV118 is about half of what you'd need to support those tops you already have. At least around here they expect some chest thumpin' to be going on - a pair of PV118's or the Club subs can just barely do it in smaller rooms . When using a pair of PV118's I usually max them out 6db into the limiters (usually 500w into each, not my rig) and then keep the vocals and guitars low enough to not drown them out. My little TH-Mini's put out about 2x each what an overpowered PV118 will . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarman3001 Posted December 14, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 looks like our amp problem is solved. Turns out one of the guys in the band has a Crown XLS802 sitting at home. We can use that to replace the underpowered Mackie. It won't help tonight because we need to make a couple of cabling changes to bring that amp into the system but by our next gig it should be in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by guitarman3001 looks like our amp problem is solved. Turns out one of the guys in the band has a Crown XLS802 sitting at home. Yup, that 500w into each 150w top ought to shortly solve your speaker issues too by forcing yous guys to buy some new ones - especially as that amp lacks clip limiters . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarman3001 Posted December 14, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by RoadRanger Yup, that 500w into each 150w top ought to shortly solve your speaker issues too by forcing yous guys to buy some new ones - especially as that amp lacks clip limiters . I said our underpowered amp problem is solved. I didn't say anything about our crappy speaker problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lonotes Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by RoadRanger Yup, that 500w into each 150w top ought to shortly solve your speaker issues too by forcing yous guys to buy some new ones - especially as that amp lacks clip limiters . Sometimes one thing leads to another and problems just tend to resolve themselves. Not necessarily in a good way, but resolution nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarman3001 Posted December 14, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 btw, why are you guys recommending 12s instead of 15s? And what do you think about a dual 12 cabinet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lonotes Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by guitarman3001 btw, why are you guys recommending 12s instead of 15s? And what do you think about a dual 12 cabinet? Increased clarity (especially vocals) if you're using subs. As far as dual 12's, there's not a lot of quality cabs at prices that mere mortals can afford. I'm sure that once you get up into the higher air where AH and dboomer live, there's some quality stuff in that configuration. But down around the lower end of the farmyard where most of us live, not so much. Plus, single 12's would tend to be more versatile in that they can be used as monitors too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiroVette Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by lonotes Increased clarity (especially vocals) if you're using subs. As far as dual 12's, there's not a lot of quality cabs at prices that mere mortals can afford. I'm sure that once you get up into the higher air where AH and dboomer live, there's some quality stuff in that configuration. But down around the lower end of the farmyard where most of us live, not so much. Plus, single 12's would tend to be more versatile in that they can be used as monitors too. Man, would I love to get tops with a pair of 12's and a horn in the PRX/KW series range. My buddy has a bunch of JBL SR4732 cabs that he uses as tops over the old SR4719 boxes and they are just smoking. If I had ground floor storage and a larger vehicle I would totally look for an SR based JBL system on Craigslist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by ChiroVette If I had ground floor storage and a larger vehicle I would totally look for an SR based JBL system on Craigslist. Don't forget a couple of big-arse roadies to schlep them around for yah . They do sound great and are cheap because of their size and weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jonthomas Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Most sane people want mains you can easily put on speaker stands and want the low frequencies coupled to the floor for fewer cancellations. The dual 15/12" designs don't let you do that. With a good subwoofer big mains are only taking up pack space, breaking your back, and blocking sight lines to the stage. The only good reason to have them is when you don't bring subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiroVette Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by RoadRanger Don't forget a couple of big-arse roadies to schlep them around for yah . They do sound great and are cheap because of their size and weight. You know what, though? With ground floor storage and the right vehicle I wouldn't mind doing the major amount of lifting. I already cart around my old MR835's and MR805s which aren't that much lighter than the SR stuff. When I played in a band with my buddy who has the SR gear, I had no problems lifting those cabs myself. It would honestly be worth it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 ^ Go for it - used they are a great deal if you have the back for them . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiroVette Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by RoadRanger ^ Go for it - used they are a great deal if you have the back for them . Yeah, but again, I don't have the ground floor storage. There is no way I could get those speakers into my basement by myself. My stairway leading to the basement is very steep and very narrow with a giant support you have to really duck under when you enter and exit. Since my entire band lives on Long Island, all our gigs are in Long Island, and I live in Brooklyn. So, if I had, say a garage in the backyard, then I would say screw it and just buy a van. I could probably score an unbelievable deal on old SR cabinets. I see them all the time going for cheap on Craigslist, sometimes even on eBay. Edit: Seriously, how awesome a deal is this and how amazing would a system built around these sound? http://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-SR4732-3...item3a7baadea4 That is about $600.00 per cabinet! Edit #2: And this is more my neck of the woods: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-JBL-SR4...item460a7ac9de Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by guitarman3001 I said our underpowered amp problem is solved. I didn't say anything about our crappy speaker problem. Actually, you don't have an underpowered amp problem... but you now have an overpowered speaker problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by guitarman3001 btw, why are you guys recommending 12s instead of 15s? And what do you think about a dual 12 cabinet? With subs, you do not need the additional low frequency response that a typical 15" cabinet will deliver (generally at the expense of midrange) but the smaller size, lower weight and better midrange performance (including pattern) are serious benefits if you care about overall results.All of my mid/high cabinets are either 10's or 12's (except for some very expensive 6.5's which the pros here will immediately recognize). I do not own any 15" cabinets that I would consider using over subs. I probably have ~70 cabinets in my production inventory, so I do not make my comments casually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by agedhorse Actually, you don't have an underpowered amp problem... but you now have an overpowered speaker problem. I think we've done what we can - time for the school of hard knocks to kick it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiroVette Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by RoadRanger I think we've done what we can - time for the school of hard knocks to kick it . I wouldn't say that. You guys are making very compelling comments, and I think that you have reached the guitarman and are continuing to do so. You can't expect a man to lose all preconceptions at once. It sometimes happens in stages. But you guys are helping him out a great deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarman3001 Posted December 14, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by agedhorse Actually, you don't have an underpowered amp problem... but you now have an overpowered speaker problem. lol.... if we're not loud enough for the room, part of the problem is an underpowered amp. At least that's the way I see it. Basically, we have two major contributing factors to the problem (at least the problem being addressed on this thread) - which is not enough volume. The two main contributing factors are an underpowered amp and crappy speakers. We've solved the power problem, although now we have overpowered speakers which doesn't immediately resolve our lack of volume problem, but at least it's one of the two factors that need to be fixed in order to resolve the problem entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lonotes Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by guitarman3001 lol.... if we're not loud enough for the room, part of the problem is an underpowered amp. At least that's the way I see it. Basically, we have two major contributing factors to the problem (at least the problem being addressed on this thread) - which is not enough volume. The two main contributing factors are an underpowered amp and crappy speakers. We've solved the power problem, although now we have overpowered speakers which doesn't immediately resolve our lack of volume problem, but at least it's one of the two factors that need to be fixed in order to resolve the problem entirely. I believe what AH was saying is that the relationship between amp and cab is more synergistic than you are giving credit for. If the problem is that you're not loud enough for the room, it's because you don't have enough rig. Increasing the amp power, beyond the capabilities of the cabs doesn't really solve the problem as now you have a much greater potential to burn out the cabs. Where before you weren't loud enough, now you are silent. You might be better off to continue using your system as it is. Now that you have increased amp power readily available, accelerate your search for better cabs, but leave the bigger amp on the shelf until you upgrade rather that run the risk of blowing up your only cabs. It only takes one little slip up for the night to get very quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members steve_man Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 ...so...what happened to Behringer? I mean, why Seismic? Thought you were on the Behringer/Bugera train? Just asking.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 Originally Posted by steve_man ...so...what happened to Behringer? I mean, why Seismic? Thought you were on the Behringer/Bugera train? Just asking.... That train encountered a seismic event and got derailed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members steve_man Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 LOL...I'm just busting the OP's chops. He went on and on over in the guitar forums about Behringer/Bugera... Had to bust his chops a bit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiroVette Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 Originally Posted by steve_man LOL...I'm just busting the OP's chops. He went on and on over in the guitar forums about Behringer/Bugera... Had to bust his chops a bit... WTF! What do you assholes have against Behringer? The other day I was in a Rite Aid pharmacy and got a free pair of Behringer PA speakers with the purchase of some toothpaste and a small package of razor replacement cartridges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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