CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted November 11, 2014 CMS Author Share Posted November 11, 2014 . I only heard the ZLX once a few weeks ago, and although the salesman didn’t crank them up, they seemed more “neutral” or balanced if that makes sense. It’s incredible how much quality, output and features you can get these days for so little cash… I’ll be looking forward to your official review. :-) Al We're definitely in a golden age of powered speakers. I had the ZLX's (12 and 15P's) and an ELX118P for a few months. They're silky smooth where JBL's are "in your face" and the Yamaha's are "crisp, clean, hi-fi HF". All are great attributes for a speaker, you just get to pick which type you want to hear. I think at one point I had the ZLX's, a Bose L1, and a JBL PRX715 at the same time. It was great fun to try them out for other listeners and get the many varied opinions...many of which I found quite surprising and enlightening. It's one of the reasons I rarely have anything truly negative to say about how a speaker sounds. It's either your cup of tea, or something less than that....about 98% of the time. There are those very few cases where a speaker is seriously flawed or just cheaply made, but I haven't encountered one of those hot messes in many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted November 11, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 11, 2014 You should try out some American Audio ELS-15As. I found them absolutely awful in every possible way (except price), but John Young of Disk Jockey news only had praise for them, which made me wonder if he was paid to say the nice things he did and/or if he needs a new set of ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted November 11, 2014 CMS Author Share Posted November 11, 2014 You should contact him privately if possible, and ask if he was paid. Could be. In many cases the context of a review should give away whether it's paid or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Louis Schwartz Posted November 11, 2014 Members Share Posted November 11, 2014 Thanks, guys! This is all useful perspective and information. I spent some time with a DBR 10 last week at a local store and I'm starting to think that they might be just what I need to fill out my monitoring needs for those occasions (very occasional) when I need to roll out the whole small PA for my band. It seems pretty clear that 2 or 3 of these will give me exactly what I need in terms of wedges or extra side fills when I need more than my 4 RCF 310a's will give me (two for FOH and two as side fills). I'd like to have something smaller and lighter than the 310a's with some built-in floor-wedge appropriate EQ, rather than bring a 3rd pair of 310a's, which don't have a floor-wedge setting and need some propping up to get a good wedge angle (they also sound best as wedges when they're a little farther away in front than I often have room for), although they're still another option). The only other other option I'm looking into is the new Yorkville NX10c, which--if it sounds good--offers some advantages for my situation (particularly the ability to mount them on my FOH speaker stands just below my mains). That seems to me a very space efficient way of filling out my monitoring needs in tight performing situations. I also like the idea of the coaxial design and tighter pattern for using them as wedges for particular performers. I'd love to hear what anyone has to say about those Yorkvilles. I don't have a gig that will require more than my RCFs until late January, so I'm not in a huge hurry. In fact, I've been dragging my feet about this upgrade for a while, so I can go one for longer I suppose! Louis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted November 11, 2014 Members Share Posted November 11, 2014 And we haven't even begun arguing over where Line6 L2t and L3t fit in the mix... Looks like an opening to me First I should say I had almost no hand in the development of these speakers. I have plenty of experience in developing speaker systems and have probably been responsible for 30 or more boxes from low to high dollar for that little ole company in Mississippi so I have a pretty good understanding of what to expect for a speaker at a given price point. The system (box and drivers) was designed by the same engineering team that has designed portable sound products for one of those long time manufacurers mentioned in this thread. That actual drivers are 99.999% the same as another manufacturer's also mentioned in this thread (actually the number 1 best selling for the last several years) and amplifiers, well let's just say they come from a well known Scandinavian company. So I had a pretty good idea of what to expect. All that said I was completely not ready for the level of performance that was achieved by these systems. The part that caught me off guard was the massive amount of DSP processing that Line 6 brought to the party. Most highly regarded companies use a small all-in-one chip that provides A/D, D/A, mcu, memory and DSP. All the functions of the chip are built-in so you just drag and drop to select say the filter types, the center frequencies and a little bit of EQ. Line 6 OTOH uses a stand alone A/D-D/A, Mcu, memory chips and a complete Sharq processor. There is as much DSP inside each speaker box as there is in many of the popular small format digital mixers that everyone here loves. Line 6 completely wrote their own filter sets , EQ and included such things as a complete 12 band automatic feedback manager, a 31 band GEQ an bunch of smarts so that the speaker knows if it is up on a pole or down on the ground, or down on the ground sideways as a monitor and reconfigures itself automatically. There was also a bunch of work done inside the filters to improve the smoothness of the frequency response at the outer edges of the horizontal pattern. Yeah, every speaker had ought sound good when you stand right in front of it at the music store, but most of your audience is out off axis. Go take a listen and compare these to about anything else when you are way wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted November 12, 2014 Members Share Posted November 12, 2014 it's probably just me but i'm sort of leery of speaker cabs with a lot of processing, LCD screens and lots of mixing functions. I own and use some but still i'm uneasy about putting what seems like delicate processing in the cabinet. At the same time I'm excited about the newer and better processing happening. Why is it worrisome? When I think of what takes the most abuse, at least by me, it's the speaker cabinets. DSP, mixers, effects, dynamics used to all stay in racks/cases and I would pick up and load more gently. So, perhaps it's my behavior that needs changing! But still monitors take way more abuse than a mixer or FOH rack. Typically, for many of my small jobs I load my cabinets raw into the van or truck, or they have covers, but not cases. When I first saw an LCD screen on the EV cabinets, which were the 2nd generation of the ELXp , which were pretty fragile and mediocrely(is that a word) built it immediately seemed like something a marketing dept (or designers who don't gig much) might design. This is not aimed at Don in particular other than to get his take on the design and reliability of these new active speakers. . As I think of a day to day gigging, end of the night, tired musician behavior, doesnt it seem that lots of fancy dsp in the speaker, subject to constant vibration and abuse might be a failure point? I realize that much/all of the processing needs to be in the cabinet. Xovers, filters, limiting. maybe this belongs in Don's DSP post… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted November 12, 2014 CMS Author Share Posted November 12, 2014 Re: Line 6 L2t and L3t Go take a listen and compare these to about anything else when you are way wide. I have to agree. My last chance to use them before returning was my g/f's daughter's wedding, which was outside at a park far from parking. We had to schlep whatever was going with us in the trunk of a car, not my truck or trailer, and carry everything in. So we took one L2t, a mixer (the M20d), CD player and my iPod. The spot chosen for me to set up required really wide coverage and quite a bit of distance. After setting up for background music, as the party assembled I walked the "room", and was quite happy with how well it covered the area. Later I got a couple of comments that the ceremony music sounded better than the reception's DJ, who also disappointed by not playing specifically-requested songs, but that's another topic for another thread. Now if only the price was lower (I know, I know...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted November 12, 2014 Members Share Posted November 12, 2014 While I realize that price alone is no way to judge / compare speakers - the Google search I just did on the American Eagle ELS-15As suggests that these can be had pretty much anywhere for $169. That's less than less than half the going price of the speakers that have been at the heart of this discussion so far (33% of the $500 units). I can't help but feel that mentioning them is an "apples to zucchinis" sort of discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members toober Posted November 13, 2014 Members Share Posted November 13, 2014 So for lack of DBR8, how does DBR10 compare against DXR10? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted November 13, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 13, 2014 So for lack of DBR8' date=' how does DBR10 compare against DXR10?[/quote'] I'm going to guess the DXR10 outperforms the DBR10 by a few DBs, simply because of the higher applied power and different components. The DBR10 has less applied power and smaller compression driver than DBR12 and DBR15 for some reason... Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted November 13, 2014 CMS Author Share Posted November 13, 2014 I'm going to guess the DXR10 outperforms the DBR10 by a few DBs, simply because of the higher applied power and different components. The DBR10 has less applied power and smaller compression driver than DBR12 and DBR15 for some reason... Al I'd venture a guess that the 10" driver doesn't need the additional 300 watts. The compression driver is possibly smaller because the larger driver needs a larger horn, which may not fit as the DBR10's box is nearly 2-1/2" shallower than the DBR12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bufalo Posted January 2, 2015 Members Share Posted January 2, 2015 Here's a pic from the crowd of the outdoor show I played on New Year's Eve with sound provided by just a pair of DBR12's and a DXS12 sub. This combo put 5-piece band sound 50-80 yards into a frigid open field. I was impressed. I've had the DBR's for a couple months now, since about as soon as they became available, and I bought the sub at the same time. This was the first I've had a chance to really open things up. I had the gains at "9" on the mains and at "6" on the sub (all relative, I know), had the volume UP, and never once saw a limit light or heard anything reaching distress levels. Now of course, the subwoofer was providing sound more than true impact, but the fact that these three speakers, at about $500 per box, could carry a moderate rock band across frozen tundra for 3 hours without hiccup was enough to make my 2015. I'd never have to push them that hard inside at any venue we'd play; this was a good chance to evaluate just how much headroom I have in the system. Did not disappoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted January 3, 2015 Members Share Posted January 3, 2015 In attempt to pull this back on track - here's a pic from the crowd of the outdoor show I played on New Year's Eve with sound provided by just a pair of DBR12's and a DXS12 sub. This combo put 5-piece band sound 50-80 yards into a frigid open field. I was impressed. I've had the DBR's for a couple months now, since about as soon as they became available, and I bought the sub at the same time. This was the first I've had a chance to really open things up. I had the gains at "9" on the mains and at "6" on the sub (all relative, I know), had the volume UP, and never once saw a limit light or heard anything reaching distress levels. Now of course, the subwoofer was providing sound more than true impact, but the fact that these three speakers, at about $500 per box, could carry a moderate rock band across frozen tundra for 3 hours without hiccup was enough to make my 2015. I'd never have to push them that hard inside at any venue we'd play; this was a good chance to evaluate just how much headroom I have in the system. Did not disappoint. Whoa! Outside gig at New Years! You are braver than I Sounds like the DBR's did a fine job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bufalo Posted January 3, 2015 Members Share Posted January 3, 2015 Whoa! Outside gig at New Years! You are braver than I ! Temperatures were in the low 20's all evening. We had redi-heaters on the stage... It was *cold.* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted January 3, 2015 CMS Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 Mickeykeys, you picked the wrong day to get obnoxious about missing a vaguely alluded detail in your posts. Nobody has the right to dump on anyone, especially for a simple misinterpretation. For that reason, your posts are out. For what it's worth, you could sell the DBR and have plenty of cash for the 4 channel submixer you'd need to do this right. And since you repeatedly stated you don't know technical stuff, I'd be willing to bet the band's mixer has a return or other way of sneaking in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted January 3, 2015 Members Share Posted January 3, 2015 Mickeykeys, you picked the wrong day to get obnoxious about missing a vaguely alluded detail in your posts. Nobody has the right to dump on anyone, especially for a simple misinterpretation. For that reason, your posts are out. For what it's worth, you could sell the DBR and have plenty of cash for the 4 channel submixer you'd need to do this right. And since you repeatedly stated you don't know technical stuff, I'd be willing to bet the band's mixer has a return or other way of sneaking in. Craig, I am not sure there is really ever a reason to be obnoxious in a forum like this. It is simply not necessary. You ask for advice, and people give it. You can use it, or ignore it as you please. No need to be irritating IMO. So does this count as your first administrative duty of the new year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 3, 2015 Members Share Posted January 3, 2015 Some people think it's their right to be obnoxious. In fact, it's more of a highly earned privilege... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted January 5, 2015 Members Share Posted January 5, 2015 what did I miss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted January 7, 2015 CMS Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 what did I miss? Obnoxious keys player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jesseweiss Posted July 11, 2015 Members Share Posted July 11, 2015 Thanks for all the info guys. Right now I'm totally on the fence about the ZLX vs. DBR 12 inch speakers. I've got a quote from someone for $396 for ZLX w/bags (so I'm assuming around $350 w/o) and $450 for the DBR. I've only heard the ZLX which I really liked compared to JBL EON 600 for example. Not sure what to do. This is for a 4 pc rock band. Thinking maybe the ZLX with a sub is the best option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted July 14, 2015 Members Share Posted July 14, 2015 Thanks for all the info guys. Right now I'm totally on the fence about the ZLX vs. DBR 12 inch speakers. I've got a quote from someone for $396 for ZLX w/bags (so I'm assuming around $350 w/o) and $450 for the DBR. I've only heard the ZLX which I really liked compared to JBL EON 600 for example. Not sure what to do. This is for a 4 pc rock band. Thinking maybe the ZLX with a sub is the best option. The EON's are .... just awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted July 14, 2015 Members Share Posted July 14, 2015 I've done quite a few gigs with the DBR12 since I bought them. little gigs, stage monitors, front fills and mains. Saturday I used one as a front fill at a 1300 person concert. Sunday I mixed a 7 piece horn, blues band outside with the DBR as mains and two HPR181 subs. Everything was mic'd up. 4 mon mixes from FOH. It was a small park with about 300-400 people sitting in chairs on the grass. I had to put up a side fill to reach the people way off axis. Anyhow, the little DBR did a surprisingly good job. They are darker than you might expect. I used the 100hz HPF Xover built into the QSC181 subs and chained the DBR to them. I was snaked out at FOH, about 75' from the stage. I was hitting 89-93dB average, which seemed correct for this crowd. The DBR did just fine. Easy to carry. They exhibit a lot of backwash since the cabinet is less substantial than a DXR. The DXR will go louder, has a nicer input panel. But still, for what i paid for the DBR pair, they've been good so far. btw, it was 90 degrees. the EV ELx would have probably thermal shut down... last night the DBR made a decent bass amp in a pinch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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