Members hammondman Posted June 21, 2014 Author Members Share Posted June 21, 2014 Yes speech certainly does sound very clear and detailed through these EV's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted June 22, 2014 Members Share Posted June 22, 2014 You normally put reverb on speech? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hammondman Posted June 22, 2014 Author Members Share Posted June 22, 2014 Did another comparison between the EV's and Altos today. Played some keyboards through them as well as playing a wide variety of pre recorded material and live vocals. The low mid dip is bigger than I thought and it's beginning to grate on me a little. Acoustic pianos sound way more natural through the Altos compared to the EV's. Also, the pre recorded material definitely sounds un balanced. Whilst the EV's do present more detail they sound scooped. This is quite disappointing as I really love everything else about the EV's. When switching between the two speakers quickly the Altos sound as though the top end is rolled off and the EV's sound as thought there is quite a dip in the mids. As a result I'm tempted to try the RCF710a's to see if these sound more balanced. According to the RCF specs the 710 is supposed to go both louder and have slightly deeper bass despite its smaller 10" driver!!!? I would miss the RCF's not having more than one input and built in crossover that the EV's have as I have a pair of ELX118p subs! Also, I don't like the look of the RCF's and would have preferred having a full front grill for protection when being used as a wedge monitor. I do have a small A&H ZED10fx though so this would at least get around the lack of multiple inputs. Hmmmm decisions!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 22, 2014 Members Share Posted June 22, 2014 How do you know that the EV's have scooped mids? This does not match what my experience is, I think you are trying too hard to find things that you personally do not like rather than a fault with the speaker. Is all of your eq set flat? Could you be introducing an issue that is outside of the speaker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hammondman Posted June 22, 2014 Author Members Share Posted June 22, 2014 Yes all of the EQ is set flat and the issue is not being introduced outside of the speaker. Some of the midrange seems to be missing on source material that I know extremely well which I've heard on several different PA's including the KV2 Audio rig I use weekly. I also heard the source material in the studio and partly used it to a/b stacks of studio monitors and my Beyer DT880pro headphones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 22, 2014 Members Share Posted June 22, 2014 Then, IMO, something is very wrong somewhere within your system or the reference that you are using. There is no loss of midrange in the speaker, it measures respectably flat and when I listened to it, I felt it was well balanced (in the flattest position). What preset are you using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hammondman Posted June 22, 2014 Author Members Share Posted June 22, 2014 I've tried Live - Pole, Music - Pole and Live - Monitor. The Live settings gave me flatter sound than the Music settings. There is nothing wrong within the system and I tried different leads, mixers etc. I had both pairs of speakers wired up to my Allen & Heath QU16 using the AUX 7-8 and 9-10 outputs so I could easilt switch between both speakers.There was no EQ, compression etc. Everything was flat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted June 23, 2014 Members Share Posted June 23, 2014 RCF is once again wrong in their frequency reseponse spec. They indicate a 50-20k response at -3 DB, but if you look at the frequency response graph, the 710A's response at 50hz is actually down roughly 30DBs!!! The -3DB point would be roughly 70hz. They do this with many of their speakers for I don't know what reason... Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pro Sound Guy Posted June 23, 2014 Members Share Posted June 23, 2014 As far as piano run through a loudspeaker system that is the truth in an accurate midrange. If you want to test a loudspeaker system for accurate midrange play some hi res piano through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hammondman Posted June 23, 2014 Author Members Share Posted June 23, 2014 Yes looking at the RCF graphs the 710 does appear to roll off quite quickly below 70Hz. I've been looking at both the RCF 710 and 310 graphs and it would appear the 310 has a little deeper bass than the 710? Infact the 310a has a slightly gentler fall off than the EV ZLX12p graph and supposedly has a little deeper bass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted June 23, 2014 Members Share Posted June 23, 2014 The 310A does produce a decent thump considering its size, but most of it is in the 100hz area. So - thumpy yes but not really deep. The HD10A does much better according to its graph, likely through processing, but actually provides usable response down to 50hz, which is excellent for a 10" cab. I would imagine at higher levels the bass boost is reduced however. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hammondman Posted June 23, 2014 Author Members Share Posted June 23, 2014 I ended up giving into the temptation of the RCF 710a's today. Not sure I'm happy with the EV's. I spoke to a couple of people today who have used both the 310a's and 710's and both said that the specs from the graph are without the boost button. Apparently the boost DSP enhances the bottom end a lot compared to the EQ settings in the 310!? Also the cabinet along with the higher powered amp supposedly helps handle deeper bass!? 710a should be hear tomorrow and I'm hoping to do an a/b of the Alto, EV and RCF tomorrow night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted June 24, 2014 Members Share Posted June 24, 2014 There's no boost button on my 310As, so I can't really confirm how effective it is. On the MKIIII model, it is recommended for background music / lower level application however. Not sure what those people meant by "the cabinet and higher powered amps help handle deep bass", but both 310A and 710a are pretty compact cabinets with 10" woofers, so you really can only expect so much output and extension in the deeper frequencies. The clarity, crispness and output should be what sticks out with the 710As. Let us know your impressions. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hammondman Posted June 25, 2014 Author Members Share Posted June 25, 2014 Ok I tried out the RCF 710's today and think they sound great. They sounded the flattest and most balanced out of all three speakers. They sound detailed without the midrange scoop of the EV's and amazingly have more bass extension than both the Alto's and EV's when the "boost" button is engaged. However, one disappointing thing I fund with the RCF710a's is there is quite a lot of port noise at certain frequencies which was present with either the Alto's or EV's! If found this when playing Rhodes and bass guitar. Maybe this is down to the much smaller cabinet than both the Alto's and EV's? Unfortunately, this is something I'd be happy with so will surprisingly be sending both the RCF's and EV's back. There is one other speaker I am going to try out which is the Alesis Alpha 112. http://www.alesis.com/alpha112 I found out from the UK rep that these were originally going to be "Pro" versions of the Alto TS112a and were going to be called Alto Truesonic 112A-PRO 9ie. However, Alto found that they were going to be too expensive to make to be commercially successful and as they had the parts already they made a batch of them and re-badged them as the Alesis Alpha speakers. The differences with the Alesis Alpha vs the Alto Truesonic are :- 1/ The 12" woofer has a 2.5 inch voice coil with the Alesis vs the 2 inch on the Alto's2/ Alesis have a titamium 1" high frequency driver with 1.75 inch voice coil vs the 1" neodymium compression driver with 1 inch voice coil in the Alto's.3/ The Alesis have 500watt RMS/1000watt peak amps vs the 400watt RMS/800watt peak amps of the Alto's4/ The Alesis are supposed to have better 24bit DSP5/ Alesis frequency response is (-10db) 51Hz-20kHz, (-/+3db) 52Hz-20kHz vs (-10db) 54Hz-20kHz, (-/+3db) 65Hz-20kHz for the Alto's.6/ Alesis crossover frequency is 1.6kHz vs 2.5kHz on the Alto's Also, the maximum SPL is slightly increased with the Alto's. Thought they are worth checking out!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 26, 2014 Members Share Posted June 26, 2014 Why borther man? Really... On the 710's, did you use a high pass filter of any kind? Did you do the testing with the bass boost on and some LF eq added too? The 710 is so much better of a speaker that it's embarrassing to read all of this. The Alesis are in the same ballpark as the Altos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted June 26, 2014 Members Share Posted June 26, 2014 The only "downside" to RCF's IME is that they are flat so don't sound "right" to those with burned up ears - which is most of the potential "rock band" clients and their "following" hereabouts . Oh, and that the 10's don't "look loud" - the stack look is still what "sells" here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 26, 2014 Members Share Posted June 26, 2014 I have about 60 cabinets that are 10" x 2 way of various sorts, 32 are 2x10". It's a great compromise because of the lack of beaming at typical crossover frequencies (~1200Hz to 1600Hz) when using real HF drivers and horns. They too are very flat right out of the box. Add my secret sauce processing and there's not been any issues with national acts that have used the system (that it's appropriate for, I don't do much really hard rock, metal and thrash... and no rap). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hammondman Posted June 26, 2014 Author Members Share Posted June 26, 2014 I did the testing with the bass boost on but no extra eq. I didn't have the 710's turned up that loud either!! I'm not saying the 710's are a bad speaker and actually think they are the best sounding small pa speaker I've heard apart from the KV2 EX10's that I sometimes use! I agree that the 710's are a much better speaker than both the Alto's and EV's but it has port noise that the others don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 26, 2014 Members Share Posted June 26, 2014 Why not play your Rhodes through a twin? Your bass through a bass amp? Both are better tools for the job if higher volumes are necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hammondman Posted June 26, 2014 Author Members Share Posted June 26, 2014 Because I don't want to carry a lot of extra gear around. The whole point is to have a small lightweight system for acoustic gigs (preferably lighter than my Altos) that can handle a reasonable amount of bass. So far the Alto's have done a pretty reasonable job but I would still like something lighter. Also, now that I've heard the Alto's next to the RCF's I would like something with a little more high mid clarity! Have you heard both the Altos and Alesis speakers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted June 26, 2014 Members Share Posted June 26, 2014 I have about 60 cabinets that are 10" x 2 way of various sorts, 32 are 2x10". It's a great compromise because of the lack of beaming at typical crossover frequencies (~1200Hz to 1600Hz) when using real HF drivers and horns. They too are very flat right out of the box. Add my secret sauce processing and there's not been any issues with national acts that have used the system (that it's appropriate for, I don't do much really hard rock, metal and thrash... and no rap). Yah but you cheat and work with bands that don't suck . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 26, 2014 Members Share Posted June 26, 2014 I try hard to not work with bands that suck, or are legends in their own minds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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