Question which pertains to Behringer, and also Peavey, Crest, etc.

[Craig Vecchione]

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JV90 wrote:

Btw? How you guys can handle what is advertising over recommendation? Everyone over here speaks good regarding jbl, qsc, yamaha, and some times what is recommended seems to be advertising it too, the only thing is that no product specialist is telling it, so? What can be consider advertising? What can't not consider to be advertising?

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As Andy stated, he doesn't work for any of the companies you mention as examples. He can write about them without it being an advertisement for the company(s) he represents. The same holds true for any other regular member. Their recommendations aren't ads, because they aren't employees of the company. Andy can't advertise for his company(s). If you read past threads he doesn't state anything other than what was asked of him regarding his company's products, to address a problem or question.

How do I judge? It's my opinion. There's no formula, leeway is given to members with a good reputation, and I'll communicate behind the scenes (PM) when it makes sense. Yes, it can seem arbitrary, but if someone has consistently been a contributor and helped this forum, they will get more leeway than someone who just arrived.

To put a little more perspective on the challenge, consider how you post here. Your posts consistently support Behringer. Should we limit you? How is your posting of only positives fair, but someone else's posting of only negatives unfair? Moderators have the task of trying to keep things running smoothly among people with wide gaps in agreement, whilst knowing their general stance on things. Among regular members we give plenty of leeway to accomodate their prejudices. With the manufacturing reps we have to be much more strict. Until now this was not an issue.

Then there's the issue of shills (people who are not directly affiliated with a company but support them by consistently posting negatives about other companies or positives about a company). How am I supposed to identify them? How would I know that you aren't a shill for Behringer, for instance? You seem to only post in Behringer threads, and as noted earlier you consistently support them and rarely if ever admit to a negative about them. Other members do the opposite and post negatives about Behringer on a consistent basis. I can only go by posting history. A newcomer thatbehaves like a shill is more suspect than someone who's been here a long time and posts on a wide variety of topics. As you can probably see, there's a bit more to all of this than is immediately apparent.

[agedhorse]

Or power compression in the speaker will reduce any difference in power to a totally meaningless discussion. It really does depend.

[monthlymixcd]

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agedhorse wrote:

Or power compression in the speaker will reduce any difference in power to a totally meaningless discussion. It really does depend.

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AAaargh! lol Andy... you're killing me. :cattongue:  

[guitarman3001]

 

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agedhorse wrote:

 

Or power compression in the speaker will reduce any difference in power to a totally meaningless discussion. It really does depend.

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Ok, so eliminate that possibility by replacing the Yamahas with a speaker capable of handling higher wattage and putting out a higher SPL before any power compression happens.

Is there a way to accurately determine which of those amps will drive the same speaker harder?

[JV90]

We'll like Craigv mentioned, I do really like behringer products, they have proved that they work, at until this moment my 3 mixers are working fine without any hiccups, my 6 xm8500 are sounding real good, my little fbq800's are working and doing their jobs (although there aren't 31 bands eq, just 9 bands), and my little com800's are still working;

 

So the behringer brand gear is for me useful and I do recommend them, of course, learning with the advices that you guys had giving to me over my staying on the forum, and my trial and errors before any gigs as well,

 

I do always have complements regarding my gear at the end of the venues, and a lot of people wonders why I can make good sound using what I'm using, but I really know what I'm doing, and also know that I have to learn a lot more, I'm not an audio engineer, neither pretend it to be, what I've done is research, read, learn, ask, and then read again what if how is this or that would be useful for situation regarding this or that, that's my secret...

 

I don't work for behringer, I don't sell their gear, I'm not endorse by them, I'm just a happy customer that found that their line of gear works at my level; I'm not doing touring or national acts, just corporates and worship venues

 

 

[JV90]

Sb, the little Fbq800's sure can get the job done, if you can manage to handle just 9 bands of eq of course , they work for what they are , the only thing that I don't like is that they feel very plastic, sure they look like toys, and some customers haved smile at me when they see my little "half racks" and ask me if they really would work and I say yes they do, when they hear the rig and no feedback at all they understand that works

[Reson8tor]

 

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JV90 wrote:

 

Sb, the little Fbq800's sure can get the job done, if you can manage to handle just 9 bands of eq of course , they work for what they are , the only thing that I don't like is that they feel very plastic, sure they look like toys, and some customers haved smile at me when they see my little "half racks" and ask me if they really would work and I say yes they do, when they hear the rig and no feedback at all they understand that works

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What the hell does this have to do with the wattage specs for amplifiers being discussed in this thread? If you're trying to avoid looking like a Behringer shill, then you're not doing a very good job.

P.S. to the Behringer reps who have been posting here:

This is part of your problem, in getting pros to "look at" your gear.

 

[JV90]

It's good to know what you are thinking cv, but? If you have that opinion regarding jbl and yamaha? How come you bought a Mackie mixer then? Besides, although sb and I share some good things regarding the behringer brand gear, and Ok, some of you could have that image that we both are fan boys from them, cause they work for our jobs, but also we understand that it exists better brands like the one's you are mentioning, however, I think that sb and I don't think in the same way like you do, we are open mind toward other brands that the us citizen wouldn't imagine that exists, and can perform as well like the ones that you like, if you feel comfortable using the Mackie stuff knowing that yamaha is better? Go ahead, we both feel comfortable with behringer gear, and lots of people over here would feel the same way too, but they (behringer) don't need our support at all, cause the gear works and if they work for us, like the jbl or yamaha or mackie that you use works for you as well;

 

Btw, I'm really glad that you could bought that wonderful gear that you've mentioned, really, and I'm be honest with you at all at this time, also I'm not jealous about that too, if they work for you? Fine, go ahead

 

But it's the user who would bring up the task to let that yamaha , jbl, Mackie, even behringer brand to be heard great or not; of course the brand helps, but it's the operator that handles that in front of any brand, and if the operator doesn't know about it, even if you have better brands that the ones mentioned? It would sound aweful, horrible and I've seen a lot of this with better brands as well, think rcf, Adamson, nexo, which Btw are better brands over jbl,

 

 

 

 

[monthlymixcd]

FWIW - My confidence level with Behringer products is not based on the opinions of others... I've owned many over the last ten years and the results have been mixed at best. Here in the States we ARE fortunate to have a wide variety of products to choose from at most price levels, usually a decent selection of used gear to be had because of it, and we need to remember that this is not the case in all parts of the world. 

[JV90]

What about the ratings over a powered speaker? Does this reacts in the same manner over the power amp?

[ChiroVette]

 

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JV90 wrote:

 

It's good to know what you are thinking cv, but? If you have that opinion regarding jbl and yamaha? How come you bought a Mackie mixer then?

 

 

 

 

 

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Why?

Because I am f*cking stupid, that's why! Biggest mistake of my musical life, lol Don't get me wrong, I love the Master Fader app, but I really have had almost ALL BAD experience with Mackie products in the past and have only gotten into bed with Mackie and this mixer because a good friend of mine highly recommended the DL1808.

The app is so damned easy that I thought the mixer would be a dream, but it is a horror show, and contrary to popular belief, I am setting everything up correctly. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind about that.

I will say this is the LAST Mackie product I will ever buy, but that's another conversation.

Right now, if I can't get the DL1608 to function within normal limits on my band's next show, I will either buy another mixer (probably a StudioLive) or maybe rent one. I really hope this DL1608 works out, though, because if not, it presents me with a quandary: I am not ready to get into bed with Behringer and the X32 yet (more so after this experience with Mackie, as you rightly pointed out) but I do like what I have seen so far of the X32 versus the Presonus.

Honestly, though? If I have to buy a mixer right now, even if the X32 is the better choice, it would probably be a Presonus. Anyway, enough about this. lol After your comment, I forgot what thread I was in and thought this was my DL1608 thread for a minute!

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JV90 wrote:

 

 Besides, although sb and I share some good things regarding the behringer brand gear, and Ok, some of you could have that image that we both are fan boys from them, cause they work for our jobs, but also we understand that it exists better brands like the one's you are mentioning, however, I think that sb and I don't think in the same way like you do, we are open mind toward other brands that the us citizen wouldn't imagine that exists, and can perform as well like the ones that you like, if you feel comfortable using the Mackie stuff knowing that yamaha is better? Go ahead, we both feel comfortable with behringer gear, and lots of people over here would feel the same way too, but they (behringer) don't need our support at all, cause the gear works and if they work for us, like the jbl or yamaha or mackie that you use works for you as well;

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because, again, I am an idiot! I have had bad experiences with Mackie, and now I am realizing I should have known better.

I am glad you and SB have had great experiences with Behringer. With no disrespect meant to Joe, Uli, and Costa, who are taking time out of their busy days to answer here, I have had very bad experiences with Behringer products, just as I have with Mackie. If not? I would probably just buy the X32, sell my DL1608 on eBay, and be done with it.

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JV90 wrote:

 

Btw, I'm really glad that you could bought that wonderful gear that you've mentioned, really, and I'm be honest with you at all at this time, also I'm not jealous about that too, if they work for you? Fine, go ahead

 

 

 

But it's the user who would bring up the task to let that yamaha , jbl, Mackie, even behringer brand to be heard great or not; of course the brand helps, but it's the operator that handles that in front of any brand, and if the operator doesn't know about it, even if you have better brands that the ones mentioned? It would sound aweful, horrible and I've seen a lot of this with better brands as well, think rcf, Adamson, nexo, which Btw are better brands over jbl,

 

 

 

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The JBL stuff, even with the problems I am having with the mixer, sounds fantastic! I totally made the right call on that gear. The cables I bought from Audiopile are second to none, and the Chauvet lights are just gorgeous. So, all in all, 99% of the purchases I have made based on info from this forum are awesome. If this were baseball, I would have one helluva'n on-base percentage, so that is a silver lining.

As to your other comments, I don't begrudge you anything. If you have had great experience with Behringer, then why shouldn't you continue using it, right?

Like I said, the X32 is really tempting, but...

 

[JV90]

Well, I really think that if you get some time and patience you'll find the cause of the problems that you're mentioning cv, we have some phrases over here which are: "nadie nace sabiendo", it translates to: nobody is born knowing, so, I really do think that you would find the "cure" to your Mackie problem, just get time and patience (which sometimes it's hard to find them), and be positive

[JV90]

Yes sb, thanks for the pm

[stunningbabe]

JV90, I used to have the Mackie 1604VLZ which was the last batch that was made in USA. Hated it.The faders were pretty much sub standard quality....and 2 of the faders failed after only 3 years. The Mic pre-amp sounded really thin and nasal. It was one of the most useless gears I ever used.

[JV90]

Really? I had the 1202 series, the original model, it had a great weight cause they were metal chassis, but on that time I used it over my keyboards rig, then replaced it over an xenyx 1832, then sold to get the x2222fx, and I had to buy the little x1204fx, and got for my big gigs the 3242fx, the 3 mixers are working fine until this moment

[stunningbabe]

I know it is unfair to compare due to the price difference...but many years ago...I AB'd the mackie and Midas Venice mixer.

The difference in sound quality is staggering. With all EQ setting flat at noon...the Midas made my Voice so full and rich...while the Mackie made it sound so thin and nasally. Urgh!

I fell for the brilliant Mackie Advertising...just as I also fell for the BOSE's brilliant ads that were well written and at the end....I regretted buying Mackie and BOSE.

I am sure everyone has made silly purchases before....but the good thing is I am glad I am wiser now.

[dboomer]

 

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JV90 wrote:

 

What about the ratings over a powered speaker? Does this reacts in the same manner over the power amp?

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You shouldn't worry about the power rating of an amplifier in a powered speaker.  The only thing to be concerned here is maximum clean acoustic output.  If a speaker will put out say 125 dB SPL does it make any difference whether the amp that did it was 100W or 1000W?  The output is the output.

[JV90]

I've always knew that spl and rms watts are totally in conjunction, what about a powered speaker that says that it have 1000 watts? It would be true of not? Maybe the pro audio is moving to get us accept some new waveform to understand theirs philosophy of measurement, is like the Pmpo watts that the audio home equipments are using

 

PMPO= para medio poder oir; it means, "at least to be heard"

[Miko Man]

A self-powered loudspeaker might advertise that it features "1000 watts" of power amplification (in the form of two 500 watt class D amplifier modules). That statement may be truthful, but the bi-amped nature of the speaker design and the internal DSP may mean that the 500 watt amp that powers the 1.4" exit driver never produces more than about 75 watts in use. The "1000 watts of power" is, in my view, misleading but truthful. Mark C.

 

Edit: If I have gone off-topic, Craig, please accept my apology and move/delete my response as you deem appropriate. Mark C.

[loco_p_man]

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JV90 wrote:

I've always knew that spl and rms watts are totally in conjunction, what about a powered speaker that says that it have 1000 watts? It would be true of not? Maybe the pro audio is moving to get us accept some new waveform to understand theirs philosophy of measurement, is like the Pmpo watts that the audio home equipments are using

 

PMPO= para medio poder oir; it means, "at least to be heard"

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Don's started up a new thread to cover this : http://www.harmonycentral.com/t5/Live-Sound-Production/Max-SPL-of-a-speaker-system/m-p/35530797#U35530797

[Reson8tor]

 

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JV90 wrote:

 

Really? I had the 1202 series, the original model, it had a great weight cause they were metal chassis, but on that time I used it over my keyboards rig, then replaced it over an xenyx 1832, then sold to get the x2222fx, and I had to buy the little x1204fx, and got for my big gigs the 3242fx, the 3 mixers are working fine until this moment

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The original 1202 was a different product from a different company than Mackie is now. I still have one that I bought new back in the good 'ol Seattle days. It still works, and I'll probably never sell it, because it's a nice little workhorse for small jobs around the office and studio.

The current Mackie company (and those competing directly against them) is not designing or building products this way. Everyone at the entry-level of the market is trying hawk "features" instead of just basic build quality and function, which used to be what we all looked for, when money was tight.

 

[JV90]

You are right reson8tor, different company like you've mention over the actual one

[tlbonehead]

Craig, feel free to lock or dump this thread if you want. Very frustrating, especially with the Behr representatives. They have certainly made me less likely to buy one of their products. Thanks all.

[JV90]

But let's wait the answer of some behringer representative regarding how to deal with the specs of power rating over a power amp or powered speaker, does the rms value and spl db still counts? Or not?

[JV90]

Or what the user world have to look regarding this manner?