TC ELECTRONIC KONNEKT 24D (FireWire Audio Interface)

[Mike Martin]

Fredsa,
I own a MKS-70 and many other dinosaur synths. The MKS-70 can get quite loud. Editing one program (and increasing the VCA Level (screen #61)) I could actually clip inputs 3-4 because the signal was too hot. Konnekt would work fine with a synth like the MKS70, especially if you're not worried about hitting the edit button.

-Mike Martin
TC|US

PS. Thats one of my favorite dinosaurs.

[Fredsa]

Thanks Mike...I know that MKS 70 is loud as I have several pieces of gear damaged by the inhuman bases from that!! let me put my question this way...in what situation will the input level of 3-4 be problematic..what is "too low"?

[Really!]

Originally posted by Mike Martin Craig, The people at Cakewalk were kind enough to send me (and our customer support office) Sonar 6, it hasn't arrived yet. I'll test as soon as a I can.

 

 

Mike, let us know as soon as you have any information on the card and Sonar 6. There is a thread going on over in the Sonar forum (on Cakewalks website), and someone just replaced the card with a different one because they couldn't get it to work. There are also many others intrested in the Konnekt 24D ...

 

Thanks!

[Yggdrasil]

Hello,


I have a Novation nova connected to line inputs 1/2 or 3/4 on rear panel.

Even with the patch volume and main volume to the max, i can barely go above the middle of the vu-meters. I think it's something like -10 dB (I'm not on my computer, so I'm unable to check).

Unfortunately, I don't own other pieces of hardware gear to make other tests. But the gain for the Nova was good enough on my old soundcard (Emu 0404).

Mike, can we expect this to be fixed by some firmware update, or this is a hardware related problem ?

It would be nice also to have some kind of indications in the control panel to know if phantom power is on or off.

finally, when can we expect the firmware update you spoke about earlier to be released ?


Many thanks for your answers, and again sorry for my poor english...

[franklawrence]

Craig,
Can you give us your thougts about how this unit compares with the Firebox? I'm looking for a first computer interface and software combo for songwriting.
Thanks.

[timbos]

Hi, I luckily found this forum yesterday as I'm about to pull my hair out trying to get Konnekt to quit making horrible noises during playback with Sonar 5 and 6. My PC is a late model custom with a ASUS P4PE i845 chipset board with onboard Firewire, 2.4Ghz P4, 1.5 gig ram running the latest version of XP Home Ed.

I purchased Konnekt Monday and it replaced my "perfectly" working Echo Audio 24 bit Layla PCI card/ breakout box unit. I've used it flawlessly with my PC and my PC is almost 4 years old. I wanted to upgrade my 7 year old piece of audio hardware and got nothing but frustration instead.

Believe me, I spent hours fooling with Sonar latency and buffer settings, the Konnekt console setup sytem settings such as changing sample sizes, clock host settings, installed the latest driver software/firmware, disconnecting all other Firewire devices and you name it. The problems arise when I engage the echo monitoring on any track in Sonar. As I strum a guitar for example and let a chord ring out it sounds nice, but eventually you get this horrible crackle-fuzz sound that tails off into a reverbish type sound that will make your skin crawl.

I read where someone had a 1.03 beta driver and I would sure like to try that before I take this thing back to the store. I was very excited, but now I'm very disappointed. Konnekt looks like it was tested with Cubase and I'm sure Cubase is a fine product, but I've used Cakewalk for years and I'm used to it. I really want to get Konnekt to work with Cakewalk because the interface really seems like a quality product.

I really want to get in touch with TC's support before I haul this thing back to the store.

Thanks for listening and or any suggestions.

[Mike Martin]

Timbos,
I was specifically told not to give the beta version out. I know that our US offices have not distributed it. Please know that this is our highest priority at this point and as soon as I have more information about the Sonar issue I'll post it here. Timbos, send me a PM with your email address, also go to the TC Electronic website and register a support claim so our engineers can see it too.

Take care,
Mike Martin
TC|US

[Mike Martin]

Originally posted by Yggdrasil Hello, I have a Novation nova connected to line inputs 1/2 or 3/4 on rear panel. Even with the patch volume and main volume to the max, i can barely go above the middle of the vu-meters. I think it's something like -10 dB (I'm not on my computer, so I'm unable to check). Unfortunately, I don't own other pieces of hardware gear to make other tests. But the gain for the Nova was good enough on my old soundcard (Emu 0404). Mike, can we expect this to be fixed by some firmware update, or this is a hardware related problem ?

 

 

Yggdrasil,

This topic was covered in detail on page 9 of this thread. The line inputs are calibrated at the same level as competitve products including those from Mackie and RME. This won't be changed.

 

 

It would be nice also to have some kind of indications in the control panel to know if phantom power is on or off.

 

 

This is in the next software release.

 

 

finally, when can we expect the firmware update you spoke about earlier to be released ?

 

 

I can't give an exact date at this time. Hopefully in the next week.

 

-Mike Martin

TC|US

[timbos]

Originally posted by Mike Martin Timbos, I was specifically told not to give the beta version out. I know that our US offices have not distributed it. Please know that this is our highest priority at this point and as soon as I have more information about the Sonar issue I'll post it here. Timbos, send me a PM with your email address, also go to the TC Electronic website and register a support claim so our engineers can see it too. Take care, Mike Martin TC|US

 

 

Just to clarify, is my problem that I'm having with Sonar and Konnekt a driver issue? Is my situation unique or are they aware of other similar cases?

 

I'm going to pm you my info.

Thanks for the reply and help Mike.

 

Tim

[Anderton]

Just to clarify, is my problem that I'm having with Sonar and Konnekt a driver issue? Is my situation unique or are they aware of other similar cases?

Your situation is not unique, I have a similar problem. The main difference is I sampled the "horrible crackle-fuzz sound that tails off into a reverbish type sound that will make your skin crawl" just in case someone asks me to score a horror movie someday I could get things to work with longer latencies (256 samples) but adding more tracks or soft synths degraded the performance further.

Fortunately, Mike Martin is aware of this and as he said, "this is our highest priority at this point." I think when a company like TC says something is their "highest priority," you can expect to see a fix!

[Fredsa]

I think we can conclude that what Craig said about the possibility of -10 db synths outputs being accomadated in line 3-4 is our of question...based on Mike's answer. I just want to clarify that the comparrsion with FF400 is at +4db...right?

[Mike Martin]

Tim,

The problems you’re describing with Sonar seem a little different that what Craig Anderton and I are experiencing so just in case I’m putting together some general tips for using Firewire audio interfaces in Windows XP.

Choice of Firewire Interface

TC Electronic recommends a dedicated Firewire interfaces that use a TI chipset. Your motherboard uses a VIA6307 chipset, which should be ok but I honestly don’t know enough about your particular motherboard to be certain. You mentioned in your post that you have other Firewire devices. For the purposes of troubleshooting, I’d like to know what they are but for now keep them disconnected.

Windows

There are few things in Windows XP that need to be checked. If you have Windows XP Service Pack 2 installed, there is a bug that affects 1394 devices that needs to be manually patched. Here is the link for this update:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=CA0F2007-18B5-4112-8BD6-8BF4BD3130B9&displaylang=en



1394 Networking

By default, Windows will treat your 1394 (Firewire) interface as a networking device. I’d recommend disabling networking services on your Firewire port. To do this go to the Control Panel, select Network Connections. Here you’ll see your 1394 Connection listed along with your regular LAN devices. Right click on the 1394 Connection and choose disable. This should also prevent applications such as software firewalls from blocking traffic on your 1394 buss.



Processor Scheduling

ASIO drivers run as a background service. To improve performance (with any ASIO device) I’d recommend changing processor scheduling. To do this go to the Control Panel, select System. Choose the Advanced Tab. Under Performance, click Settings. Choose the Advanced tab and here you can set Processor scheduling to Background Services.


If you don’t have any other programs besides Sonar to try out, I’d recommend you download a demo of a program such as ACID from Sony Media Software www.sonymediasoftware.com This way we can help you can diagnose Konnekt while we get any Sonar specific issues resolved.

[Anderton]

Mike, that is an excellent post that I'm sure many will find very helpful. I did! Your comment:

>

I only have anecdotal evidence, but I've never had much luck with onboard motherboards. I also use a separate card, they're cheap enough and they seem to make FW stuff happy.

[h1pst3r]

Been lurking for a while and I love the HC Pro review format -- so thanks Craig! Also, Mike great contributions that only serve to reinforce the reputation that TC has earned in the business.

Basically due to this review I am now 98% of the way to the 24d (now that my fave online gear dealer has it in stock!), having had a fundamental shift away from the well respected E-mu 1616M. So...

1. Craig, will we be seeing a review of the Fabrik C and Assimilator soon?

2. Craig and Mike, one of the big selling points of the 1616m for me was it having the same convertors as Pro tools HD. I think I read in another forum that those convertors are made by AKM (?). I also read that TC worked with AKM for the 24D's convertors. Is this true, and in general (Craig) how would you compare them against the 1820's (I read your 1820 review), as I think the 1820's are the same as the 1616m.

3. Craig, how would you compare the TC virtual mixer app with E-mu's powerMix in terms of functionlity and ease of use?

4. Since having 2 excellent quality TC effects is more valuable to me than having 600 presets of mid-range E-mu effects, I would really appreciate your insight on a comparison between them. Bascially the 24d and the 1616m are 2 of the very few DSP-equipped interfaces on the market, so your objective take is very valuable to me.

5. Craig will you also be covering how to change the FX when in stand-alone mode with the P1-3 buttons on the front of the 24d? For me the 24D will be serving double-duty as a live FX box/mixer and a studio interface -- the fact that I can use it without my laptop is a huge bonus over the 1616m...but I still wonder about the extent of the tweaking I can do from the front-panel alone.

Many thanks guys...!!

-h1pst3r

[timbos]

Thanks Mike and Anderton for responding. Today during lunch I picked up a Belkin 3 port Firewire PCI card. This was in a clear package so I was able to verify that it has a TI chip on the board. It was the only one with a TI chipset as a matter of fact. All the other brands had VIA chipsets. I'm going to install it this evening and make the necessary adjustments to Windows as Mike suggested.

Wish me luck. I'll post my findings either later or in the a.m.

P.S. Should I use WDM or ASIO for Sonar? And which Konnekt outputs/inputs should I choose as playback and recording timing masters for Sonar? Does it matter?

Thanks again.

[Mike Martin]

Originally posted by h1pst3r I also read that TC worked with AKM for the 24D's convertors. Is this true

Yes its true.

The rest of your post is asking for Craig's opinion. So I'll let him handle the rest.

-Mike Martin
TC|US

[sonicE]

Re firewire cards: is anyone here using the 24D with the built-in firewire of a G4 Mac? I haven't looked into it, but I highly doubt Apple was using the TI chipset in their G4s! If I can use the G4's built-in firewire for the 24D, then I can get a USB2/1394 combo card for my other firewire needs.

BTW, thanks Timbos for that info re the Belkin PCI card. I was just looking into cards at a local Mac shop yesterday. Having told the owner I was looking for a card that used the TI chipset, he grabbed a LaCie PCI card box from a stack of five of them off the shelf, commenting that all the other ones were s**t, only TI was always reliable. He then opened up the package, and inspecting the chip, we saw that the LaCie card was using the VIA chipset! He had brought in the LaCie specifically because as far as he knew they used the TI, but apparently they have changed suppliers and are now using VIA (leaving him none too happy about having five of the things on hand - the only firewire PCI card he stocks!).

[Anderton]

1. Craig, will we be seeing a review of the Fabrik C and Assimilator soon?

 

Yes, in the next day or two.

 

2. Craig and Mike, one of the big selling points of the 1616m for me was it having the same convertors as Pro tools HD. I think I read in another forum that those convertors are made by AKM (?). I also read that TC worked with AKM for the 24D's convertors. Is this true, and in general (Craig) how would you compare them against the 1820's (I read your 1820 review), as I think the 1820's are the same as the 1616m.

 

I don't hear a huge difference, although there are some differences with the mic pres that I mentioned earlier. Either has fine sound quality, but the K24D is somewhat newer, and you know how technology is. Bottom line is I think the K24D has a bit of an edge in sound quality, but it's not big or obvious.

 

3. Craig, how would you compare the TC virtual mixer app with E-mu's powerMix in terms of functionlity and ease of use?

 

That's a loaded question, because the PowerMix has strong supporters and detractors! Certainly, the TC is simpler to understand and more elegant; the bit-mapped graphics in the PowerMix are a hindrance in terms of readability. But the PowerMix definitely has more options -- the way you can insert sends, effects, and metering is cool, and I like the "virtual patch bay." You're also managing more I/O, with features like the turntable input. So, functionality: +1 to E-Mu. Ease of use: +1 to TC.

 

4. Since having 2 excellent quality TC effects is more valuable to me than having 600 presets of mid-range E-mu effects, I would really appreciate your insight on a comparison between them. Bascially the 24d and the 1616m are 2 of the very few DSP-equipped interfaces on the market, so your objective take is very valuable to me.

 

The TC effects are definitely better than the E-Mu equivalents, no question about that. The reverb in particular is stellar, and remember that the E-Mu effects don't work above 48kHz (although at 96kHz, you can't use both the Fabrik C and R). However, E-Mu offers more choices in effects, and some of them are quite original, like the ring modulator and the SP-12ulator.

 

But in terms of cards-with-DSP, note that I'm a very big fan of the Creamware SCOPE system. While considerably more costly than the E-Mu or TC systems, it comes with a great array of effects and instruments, along with an intuitive patching and routing window. I would place the quality of its effects closer to TC's than E-Mu's, and there's a lot of variety. But the price is a deal-breaker for many.

 

5. Craig will you also be covering how to change the FX when in stand-alone mode with the P1-3 buttons on the front of the 24d? For me the 24D will be serving double-duty as a live FX box/mixer and a studio interface -- the fact that I can use it without my laptop is a huge bonus over the 1616m...but I still wonder about the extent of the tweaking I can do from the front-panel alone.

 

Yes, I will. It's mostly about routing; presets are called up separately.

[Anderton]

Thanks Mike and Anderton for responding. Today during lunch I picked up a Belkin 3 port Firewire PCI card. This was in a clear package so I was able to verify that it has a TI chip on the board. It was the only one with a TI chipset as a matter of fact. All the other brands had VIA chipsets. I'm going to install it this evening and make the necessary adjustments to Windows as Mike suggested.

 

Wish me luck. I'll post my findings either later or in the a.m.

 

P.S. Should I use WDM or ASIO for Sonar? And which Konnekt outputs/inputs should I choose as playback and recording timing masters for Sonar? Does it matter?

 

Remember that you'll still have issues with Sonar, just different ones. However, Mike's suggestions should help your system anyway. I think we'll need to wait for the update before we get solid Sonar performance.

 

At the moment, ASIO and WDM seem equally problematic with Sonar.

[Fredsa]

A question for Mike, I am also planning to ge a powercore compact nut I only have one firewire port on my laptop...will I be able to daisy chain the powercore throuogh the Konnekt?

[Alndln2]

Well, my brother got his today for his new Centrino based dualcore laptop, and as expected the Konnekt8 barley performs in Sonar 5. He has 14 days to return it and he's trying to hang on with word of an update. Another discouraging thing which I haven't seen brought up here(maybe I missed it) is the fact that his FW Seagate external drive isn't recognized in the Konnekt's extra FW port, and I'm not sure it's such a good idea to chain them the other way because I rember PreSonus strongly recomending that FW audio devices should be first in the chain. I hate to come off glum here and I did warn him about the reports of Sonar's performance with this unit and it is his gamble, but to be honest, I personally am expecting a rough ride here judging by TC's past driver performance record(PoCo). It seems that TC seems to treat Cakewalk as an afterthought, if at all, and judging by the PoCo FW(and Pci card) and now this, it doesn't look promising as far as I'm concerned . At the moment he's hoping to hold on with at least some word from TC regarding these matters, but he's also starting to look at options that work(PreSonus FireBox/Focusrite Saffire etc.).

[Anderton]

At the moment he's hoping to hold on with at least some word from TC regarding these matters,

 

According to Mike Martin, resolving the Sonar issue is "our highest priority at this point." I think the days when any company could treat Sonar as an afterthought are pretty much past.

 

I don't expect the update will allow the 64 sample performance I got with Tracktion and the K24D, but if it gives solid Sonar performance with 128 samples, as it doesn with the other hosts I tested, that'll work for me.

 

As to using the K24D firewire port for other devices, Mike can give the "real" answer but my assumption is that's for chaining other K24D units. I think there's a reason why Firewire cards usually have multiple ports...

[timbos]

Well I have some positive things to report here about how I have Sonar and Konnekt getting along with each other for the most part now.

First I installed the new Belkin Firewire card with the TI chipset. Then I went to the Microsoft download site and downloaded the Firewire port patch. After that I performed all the adjustments to Windows Mike suggested and restarted the PC. After turning on Konnekt I brought up Sonar 5 and went to the driver settings. All were on WDM like I've always had them back when I was using my Echo Audio Darla 24 PCI card. I opened the Konnekt control panel and set the sampling to 64. Yikes! Sonars sound engine made a racket when I engaged the echo monitoring on a track. So I bumped Konnekts sampling to 128, which was an improvement but still got nasty noises. Then on to 256 samples which made it bearable, but I had to set it on 512 samples to get the popping or static to a minimum. But, it was still there occasionally. Hmmm. So then I went back into Sonar and switched the drivers over to ASIO and voila, 98% perfect playback and echo monitoring! I say near perfect because I feel that better playback should occur at a lower sample rate, at least 256 if not 128. I hope TC can work on this in the driver update, because even with using the ASIO drivers for Sonar, if sampling is any less than 512 with Konnekt you'll get a profound click or pop.

I played and recorded various tid bits for a couple hours using echo monitoring and never had a situation where the audio slowed down, fizzled or crackled. It was near perfect. And I say near perfect because I still detect a little something intermittently. It's not what I would call a pop or stutter, it's like a very faint bit of static that is so brief I would measure it in a millisecond. And it is very random. It's the same kind of noise that can occur like if your opening up a realtime effect on a track with the echo engine on or another program or something. So to try to isolate this random issue I made sure of a few things first. I use McAfee Virus Scan so I always lockdown the firewall when recording so it's not attempting to parse traffic, and I put my cable modem on standby. All virus scanning is scheduled to be done in the early a.m so I know nothing is running in the backround. Some programs that used to run on my system tray I have removed by disabling their activation during startup in MSCONFIG. Software or program wise, nothing should be causing that random spit of static. Although barely noticeable it is there. But the funny thing is it doesn't wind up in the recording even though I can hear it when recording. And when I play something back and I hear it I'll go to the exact point in the track where I knew it occured and it won't happen. So I thought maybe it's noise coming in through the Konnekt power adapter. So I removed it from the unit and let it run off bus power. I'm not saying that cured it, but I'm going to play more this evening and make that determination.

On another note, I noticed that Konnekt will get a little "poppy or clicky" if you've not chosen the selection you've made as your "clock" as the right one. For instance, my studio is simple. I have a Roland XP60 synth going into line 3/4 in the rear and my guitars going either in the front jacks or through my Boss GT8 guitar processor via the SPDIF optical out to the Konnekt SPDIF in. All drums are software based. What I noticed is that if I'm playing first through my GT8 using SPDIF "in" on Konnekt I have to set the Konnekt clock master to SPDIF or I get a flashing triangle on the Konnekt mixer and maybe it might get some pops. Then if I decide to play my guitar through the front input instead I had better change the clock in Konnekt to "internal" or else I may get a pop or two. Would I be right on this or does it matter?

Overall things seem to be working bearable right now. But I think TC has some major work to do concerning their Konnekt drivers for WDM because of all the profound noise, slowdown and stutter that can occur. Plus I think the Konnekt driver update should also be tweaked to allow a much lower sampling rate to lower latency for ASIO without sacrificing playback.

I must say after getting this unit up and running (IMO, 95% perfect) the 24D is an absolutely wonderful interface. The sound of the preamps are top notch and that is evident in the playback! Beautiful sound! Much warmer and in your face than my old Echo Darla 24 PCI. I love all the features and built in DSP. With a little driver work this thing will sell bigtime. I'm hoping this driver comes out soon. I only have a week left before I can take it back should a driver update not solve any of these issues. I hope it does, this is a great piece of equipment.

Tim

[Cmpsr]

Tim,

Glad your "somewhat" satisfied with the interface. I have a K24D sitting here in a box unopened. My firewire interface (an OEM ADS Pyro 64 PCI) arrived faulty from Amazon . For some reason, my computer wouldn't boot at all with the card installed.

Opted for the ADS Pyro retail version and a SIIG 3-port 1394 from Newegg. Until then, I'm grounded. Maybe TC will have the new driver or firmware set out by the time I get mine hooked up!

BTW, have you installed Cubase LE just to see what the interface is capable of outside of Sonar?

Jon

[timbos]

Originally posted by Cmpsr BTW, have you installed Cubase LE just to see what the interface is capable of outside of Sonar? Jon

 

 

No not yet. I just don't have much interest in it.