TC ELECTRONIC KONNEKT 24D (FireWire Audio Interface)

[Alndln2]

Originally posted by Anderton As to using the K24D firewire port for other devices, Mike can give the "real" answer but my assumption is that's for chaining other K24D units. I think there's a reason why Firewire cards usually have multiple ports...

Ok, were finding out there's a problem with his Seagate external FW/USB drive. I borrowod my friends FireBox in which you are able to chain devices and he can't do it with that either. I just thought I'd clarify that so others don't get the wrong impression.

[Anderton]

Thanks for the clarification, that's helpful info. I didn't think this was an issue unique to the K24D, and it really does seem you want different types of devices on different, dedicated Firewire ports.

[Fulcra]

Originally posted by Mike Martin There are few things in Windows XP that need to be checked. If you have Windows XP Service Pack 2 installed, there is a bug that affects 1394 devices that needs to be manually patched.

 

I just want to make a note regarding MS KB885222 ... Read it

 

As Microsoft says "this problem occurs if you connect a 1394a or 1394b FireWire device to a 1394b port. This problem occurs because Windows XP SP2 changes 1394b ports to S100 speed when you upgrade (to XP SP2)."

For those who don't know, 1394b port is the new FireWire 800 interface (not FireWire 400/1394a).

 

Anyway, It is probably best to apply this patch to stay compatible even if you don't have a FireWire 800 card since I guess no harm will be done.

 

But be aware that if you put a new FireWire card in your computer after the patch you must manually edit your registry. Read about it in the link above. (maybe it's just to apply the patch again?)

 

This is the default in registry (without line break) were you can change SidSpeed value:

0 S100 speed

1 S200 speed

2 S400 speed (default value)

3 S400/S800 speed (Windows XP Service Pack 1 [sP1] value)

 

****

 

REGEDIT4

 

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum\PCI\**edit here\and here**\Device Parameters]

"SidSpeed"=dword:00000002

 

****

 

So does this patch really fix FireWire 800 problems in XP SP 2? No, no and no!!!

 

First of all this must be an old war between Apple and Microsoft. I believe I read that when Apple first came up with FireWire they charged a little license fee for every interface used. Do you think Microsoft was happy with that? Anyway I don't know if Apple still does that ...

 

The strange thing is that FireWire 800 worked without problem on XP SP1. Then it stopped working on XP2. One thing that happend was that a FireWire 800 dropped to S100 (SidSpeed). So now Microsoft had to come up with this patch probably only because their anti Apple FireWire trick also broke normal devices like video cameras.

After the patch FW 800 devices that uses asynchronous mode seems to work fine again at S800. But FW 800 devices which operate in isochronous mode only works at S400 and not S800 as they should.

Do you believe as me this looks like some childish, insolent and arrogant behaviour from Microsoft?

 

And do not just go and buy a FireWire 800 interface. Many of them are wrongly made cause of badly interpretation of the FW 800 spesifications. But it is the future ...

 

Hope my english is not to bad. And sorry if i am hijacking the tread. I am sincerely interested in TC Konnekt.

 

Edit: tried to make it moe readable

[Fulcra]

Mike, does Konnekt 24D and Konnekt 8 comply with IEEE 1394 section 4.2.2.7 regarding maximum inrush energy?

 

I ask this cause there seems to be problems with the new MacBook Pro 17" and bus power.

 

Take a look here.

 

Edit:

 

"The 17-inch MacBook Pro includes fast-acting over-current protection, hence, FireWire devices that consume cable power must comply with IEEE 1394 section 4.2.2.7 regarding maximum inrush energy."

 

The 15.4-inch MacBook Pro seems not to have this problem. It does not include the fast-acting over-current protection.

 

On both machines using one FireWire port you get 14 watt bus power. Using both ports you only gets 7 watt power on each port.

 

I interpret it all like when a device on the FireWire port start up it draws more power in that moment than the protection system in the 17" allow.

 

Did I read somewhere that TC Konnekt needs 13 watt? Am I correct?

[Mike Martin]

Fulcra,

 

I've seen the thread on the Apple forum, its the first time I've read the one in the link you provided.

 

As for Konnekt's spec, I honestly don't know. I'm not an engineer but I've sent your question to our product manager in Denmark.

 

Based on what I've read, there are problems running most Firewire interfaces buss powered on a 17" Core 2 Duo Macbook Pro. From what I've read, Mackie, PreSonus, RME and Konnekt 24D are not working on buss power on the 17" Macbook Core 2 Duo. I've also read that many other Firewire devices aren't working either.

 

Note: Stephen Fortner with Keyboard Magazine did his review on an original 17" Macbook Pro, it ran buss powered. This problem seems to be just on the 17" Core 2 Duo's.

 

I'll see what I can find out.

[Mike Martin]

 

Originally posted by Fredsa A question for Mike, I am also planning to ge a powercore compact nut I only have one firewire port on my laptop...will I be able to daisy chain the powercore throuogh the Konnekt?

 

 

Yes, I've done it with a PowerCore FW briefly. 1.03 is supposed to lower the CPU load a lot so it should work even better. I'll try to test it again today for you. This would be someone dependent on the type of Firewire chipset in your computer. For reference, my laptop is a Z60m Thinkpad (Lenovo) with a 2.0ghz Pentium M.

 

Also, some laptops have a PCMCIA slot that allows you to add a second firewire port. I've used an Adaptec card in the past.

 

-Mike Martin

TC|US

[Fredsa]

Well I am just back from the music store trying out the Konnekt with my laptop (dual2core 2.0, ti firewire chipset...), I loaded a song on Cubase SX3 and tried it with a latencu of 128 samples...no problem AT ALL in play back! Sounded wonderfull, however, I didnt have the opportunity to make any recordings..i wonder if play back is ok then would recording be fine too... I mean as far as comaptibility with my firewire chipset is concerned, I gues so!?

 

 

One thing I noticed what that when I clciked on NEar TC control to minmize it I heard a click....I have a ATI X1600 video card in my laptop (256 MB videomemomy), does that mean the video graphic will interfere with recording and play bacK some times?

 

Also I was not able to configure hthe Fabrik R (didnt try the C) as an external effects I had the send on 7-8 and return on 15-16 and when I inserted the effect on a channel it was no sound (I had the R as s-r in the set up page).

[Mike Martin]

Fredsa,

The Fabrik effects send and return on the same channels. For example if you are sending to Fabrik R (Reverb), then you'll want to monitor inputs 7-8 to hear the effect. Since you're using Cubase SX 3, use the external effects feature to set up the effects, this way you can easily use them as effect sends or inserts.

 

In regards to your video card, that shouldn't be a problem but I know in the upcoming 1.03 release they lowered the CPU load of the Control Panel (mixer) application by a great deal.

[Anderton]

Hope my english is not to bad. And sorry if i am hijacking the tread. I am sincerely interested in TC Konnekt.

 

Your English is fine, and information on the level you provided is always welcome! That's one of the great things about this review format, there's plenty of space for additional comments.

[openrivers]

i have just read an review in a german gear magazine about the 24d.

they very much liked its sound and the clean and quiet preamps.

 

but they experienced higher latency compared to similar firewire interfaces.

 

a general question:

is latency an subject improved by firmware or drivers? or is it an overall design question?

 

i think i will try the konnekt 8 for myself if it works for me.

[Mike Martin]

Latency comes from the driver performance. Right now it appears the 1.03 driver should release Monday (my fingers are crossed). On my Windows desktop I can now run it at 64 samples latency in Cubase SX3, Sonar 6 and Ableton Live 6.01.

 

This is a huge improvement over the previous driver.

 

I'll get a list of all of the 1.03 improvements posted here soon.

 

-Mike Martin

TC|US

[openrivers]

thank you.

 

sounds good.

 

i have recently checked my old m-audio delta 66 card with preamp box.

 

i have totally cranked up the gain of the preamps (66db on paper) and metered a noise floor of around -52db in cubase.

 

i dont know if this is a really cool preamp noise floor test :-) but i wonder what the konnekt 8 would say in this test.

 

i am thinking about getting a pair of ribbon mics and because of this its really important how "noisy" the preamps are when cranked up.

[Mike Martin]

Alndln2, please check your PM's.

 

(sorry to hijack)

[Cmpsr]

Well after my firewire card fiasco, I finally got my K24D up and running with Sonar 6.01... semi-successfully. The D/A converters make all my softsynths and sample sets sound great through my Blue Skys... very nice. And I can play my existing setups from start to finish with no problems.

 

However when trying to patch a Kontakt instrument through to FabrikC, a horrible noise occurs and (here's where I hope I'm not alone).. hitting the playback button makes the cursor zoom across the timeline playing jibberish as it goes... not impressive TC!

 

Anyway, I hope the new drivers take care of it. They probably will.

[scadh]

Craig,

 

Since you've been working so heavy with both the Konnekt 24D and Sonar 6 Producer, I was hoping you could take just a moment to offer some thoughts on the relative quality of these two channel strips, the Fabrik C and the VC-64. I already own Sonar 6 Producer and love the VC-64. Unless the Fabrik is so vastly superior that I have no choice but to go for it, I think I am probably going to settle for the Konnekt 8 without the onboard DSP. I don't need the additional I/O and would like to save money if I can. I'm sure none of the Sonitus 'verbs can touch Fabrik R, but if you think VC-64 is of comparable quality to Fabrik C I will probably save the $200 and get the Konnekt 8 instead of the 24D.

 

Thoughts anyone?

 

Steve

[Anderton]

Latency comes from the driver performance.

 

Mike, I think that is the differentiating factor between different units running in the same environment. But processor speed has a lot to do with it; while running tests with Guitar Rig, I noticed that latency was lowest on a Core 2 Duo, next best on a Athlon dual core, and highest on a Pentium IV, using the same interface, drivers, and software environment. Bottom line is no matter how good the drivers are, you can't take full advantage of them without a fast processor.

[Anderton]

Originally posted by scadh Craig, Since you've been working so heavy with both the Konnekt 24D and Sonar 6 Producer, I was hoping you could take just a moment to offer some thoughts on the relative quality of these two channel strips, the Fabrik C and the VC-64. I already own Sonar 6 Producer and love the VC-64. Unless the Fabrik is so vastly superior that I have no choice but to go for it, I think I am probably going to settle for the Konnekt 8 without the onboard DSP. I don't need the additional I/O and would like to save money if I can. I'm sure none of the Sonitus 'verbs can touch Fabrik R, but if you think VC-64 is of comparable quality to Fabrik C I will probably save the $200 and get the Konnekt 8 instead of the 24D.

 

I feel that neither the Sonitus nor the Pantheon verbs can equal the Fabrik R. However, S6's Pefect Space convolution reverb can give extremely realistic reverb sounds. Bear in mind that convolution reverb is to algorithm reverb as samplers are to synths, so the sonic qualities are rather different; it won't do what the Fabrik R can do, but the Fabrik R can't do what Perfect Space does, either.

 

As to the VC-64, that is a very special signal processor, and I can understand why you say you love it. The Fabrik C is more transparent and what I would describe as "accurate," while the VC-64 is more of a "character"-oriented processor that aims for more vintage sounds. If you love what the VC-64 does, that's not what the Fabrik C is about. But if every now and then you wish you could get a really clean, precise sound, that's what the Fabrik C does best.

 

We'll get into the Fabrik C more in a bit, I've gotten a bit sidetracked by the whole driver thing One thing to remember is that with the zero-latency monitoring and ability to put the Fabrik R and C in the recording signal path, you can record, say, vocals with reverb, EQ, and compression while monitoring without any latency, and record the processed signal to your host along with the straight one (just in case you change you mind later and decide that maybe you needed less compression). That's something you can't do in Sonar, as the only way you'll hear the plug-ins is with some latency, and to record with the plug-ins, you would need to render the clip.

[FJHaydn]

I bought a Konnekt 8 yesterday. As my brandnew macbook is to come later this week I installed the Konnekt on my WindoxsXP desktop. I've trying things for hours, but I just can't get auto monitoring working. In other words: I get absolutely no output on the phones when plugging in a mike nor when recording in Cubase. The monitor level in the control panel ("total mix") doesn't move on input at all. In Cubase, monitoring only works when I change to ASIO Multimedia driver, however, there's about a second of latency.

 

 

Collective wisdom, I am a total newbie to audio interfaces, what am I doing wrong?

[Fredsa]

Reading so much about firewire issues..would a Carbus interface be more reliable thank Konnekt in terms of compatibility problems?

[Mike Martin]

 

Originally posted by FJHaydn I bought a Konnekt 8 yesterday. As my brandnew macbook is to come later this week I installed the Konnekt on my WindoxsXP desktop. I've trying things for hours, but I just can't get auto monitoring working. In other words: I get absolutely no output on the phones when plugging in a mike nor when recording in Cubase. The monitor level in the control panel ("total mix") doesn't move on input at all. In Cubase, monitoring only works when I change to ASIO Multimedia driver, however, there's about a second of latency. Collective wisdom, I am a total newbie to audio interfaces, what am I doing wrong?

 

 

This is a known bug with Konnekt 8 (posted earlier in the thread), and will be fixed with the update on Monday. If you like send me a PM and I'll try to email you the update.

[Cmpsr]

Mike or Craig,

 

Concerning Sonar 6, have you encountered any problems with timeline acceleration? After a few minutes with the K24D, pressing the playback button causes the vertical cursor to move rapidly across the screen playing noise as it goes. Hope I'm not alone here.

 

Thanks for any help,

Jon

 

V: 1.0.2 f128

[Anderton]

Yes, this is one of the problems I found. However, it seems 1.03 fixes a bunch o' stuff...I'm anxious to try it out and see if this is one of the things that gets fixed. Mike is having good results with the beta version of 1.03 and Sonar 6.

[Cmpsr]

Thanks Craig for the info,

 

Real quick concerning the Fabrik R in stand-alone mode... is the main-mix "return level" knob used to adjust the outgoing reverb signal to the speakers? I can't hear anything, and no signal appears to be routing through the Fabrik R panel. All mutes are off and the light ring knob (when assigned) has no effect either.

 

Thanks.. I know this is more of a support question but you at least have been able to "hear" the reverbs!

 

Jon

[Mike Martin]

Cmpsr,

Do a quick reset (on the about page). Make sure that Fabrik R is set to "internal mode" if thats the way you're intending on using it.

[Cmpsr]

Thanks Mike for responding... on a Sunday even.

 

I tried to reset the interface and nothing changed. It's just not sending any signal to the Fabrik R. I'll wait for the 1.03 update but at this point, I may have to return it. Hopefully not... the converters and pres are killer!

 

Jon

 

XP SP2

AMD X2 4800+ CPU

Gigabyte K8U-939 MB

2GB OCZ Ram