TC ELECTRONIC KONNEKT 24D (FireWire Audio Interface)

[Mike Martin]

Craig,
I don't have Sonar here to compare at the moment. Let me see what I can do about that.

[Anderton]

Thanks Mike!

[Anderton]

I think we've pretty much nailed the I/O and sync, but before getting into the DSP software, it's worth noting this is one of the few interfaces that is designed to work well as a stand-alone device, without the computer being on or even having to use the mixer applet. (Of course, you'll need to use the enclosed power supply to provide power to the K24D.)

This will also help explain the semi-circular array of red dots in Mike Martin's avatar . Click on the attachment to see how this works. The source level control is indeed a hardware level control, but how do you know which source it's controlling, and the associated level? The Ch. Select button toggles among ch1, ch2, inputs 3/4, and user, which consists of user-definable functions (we'll get into this later). This is the source controlled by the level. As the Level control is a continuous controller, a ring of LEDs light around its rim and this corresponds to the level.

But there's more: Push the knob, and it controls pan for the selected source. Then leave the knob alone for a second, and it reverts back to being a volume control.

If have the mixer applet visible, you can see the fader change as you move this control. But it stand-alone mode, it makes it easy to see the relative volume of each channel.

[Anderton]

Another interesting feature is that when using the applet, clicking on a control with a little ringed knob icon allows the front panel level control to monitor the level. (Click on the attachment; these assignable parameters are circled in yellow, except that the one circled in red is the currently selected parameter.

So, for example, if you wanted to see the level of an ADAT channel pair, you'd click on the little knob icon and you'd be able to adjust this, and see it, from the front panel. In a way, this makes the interface into a bit of a remote control. For example, suppose you're playing guitar several feet away from your computer because you don't want to pick up noise. With the 6' FireWire cable, you could have interface several feet away from the computer, and use the front panel knob to set the guitar gain.

[Anderton]

The User option can control different parameters, depending on how the K24D is configured. You choose what parameter the user switch position controls in the applet, on the Setup page, with a drop-down menu. Click on the attachment to see the choices for the K24D I'm using.

[Anderton]

So why is stand-alone mode useful? Well, TC probably had loftier apps in mind but I like being able to run the optical SPDIF from my CD player into the digital in, and take advantage of the higher-quality D/A converters (and headphone) that the K24D offers compared to my circa late 80s CD player. It also makes a good headphone amp for practicing guitar, especially with a little compression, EQ, and reverb. And while I didn't try this as an application, it seems to me this would be a convenient little mixer for a solo act: Stick a mic in one input, guitar through a POD or whatever into another input, and a backup medium (CD, MD, etc.) into the line ins.

This could also work well for my live act in conjunction with a laptop, as it can handle guitar, voice, and has the necessary MIDI connections for my Peavey PC-1600 hardware controller...as well as hardware processing for the guitar and voice, so I wouldn't have to use plug-ins. I'll probably still stick with the PreSonus Firebox because it's considerably smaller, but if I need the extra DSP or don't want to deal with the FireBox's breakout cable to handle MIDI, then the Konnekt 24D would be ideal.

[Anderton]

There's one other difference between the Konnekt 8 and K24D that's admittedly minor -- but hey, this is a Pro Review so I don't have to worry about running out of page space! The front panel DSP select button in the K24D is replaced by an AUX in monitor button on the Konnekt 8. When pressed in, this monitors the rear panel AUX inputs.

[Fredsa]

Hi and thanks for the great review, I recently sold my 01V and switched to a laptop, so I am considering the MOTU Traveller and the Konnekt 24, I also have a TL-audio 5051 valve strip...

My questions is about syncing the digital input, since there is no clock sync on the Konnekt doe that mean the Motu would be more relible as far as the syncing goes (I had problem syncing to adat between my 01V and my EMU 1212 through lite pipe, the spdif worked better!)


ALso am I losing quality by using the Konnekt preamps compared to the 5051? How do the MOTU Traveller and the Konnekt pres match up (apart from having 4 on the MOTU)?


finally is the Fabrik Reverb on pair with better software reverebs asuch as Waves Convolution reverbs ?


Thanks

[Anderton]

My questions is about syncing the digital input, since there is no clock sync on the Konnekt doe that mean the Motu would be more relible as far as the syncing goes (I had problem syncing to adat between my 01V and my EMU 1212 through lite pipe, the spdif worked better!)

 

I assume by clock sync you mean word clock. You can of course sync to the K24D via ADAT, optical SPDIF, or coax SPDIF. But I've always had good luck doing ADAT sync.

 

ALso am I losing quality by using the Konnekt preamps compared to the 5051?

 

Well, the Konnekt preamps are designed to be clean and accurate. Anything with a tube is going to have a different character. In a way, this would be an advantage to you as you could patch the 5051 into the line ins when you want a tube sound, and use the Konnekt pres when you want a "neutral" sound.

 

How do the MOTU Traveller and the Konnekt pres match up (apart from having 4 on the MOTU)?

 

I have not had the opportunity to test the MOTU Traveller, sorry...

 

finally is the Fabrik Reverb on pair with better software reverebs asuch as Waves Convolution reverbs ?

 

I'll be testing the DSP next. However, as with the preamp question, it's a little "apples and orange": I do not believe Fabrik is a convolution-based reverb, but synthesis-based. So it's kind of like asking if a Waldorf synth is on a par with an Akai sampler; they're different technologies, with different characters. A more accurate comparison would be to something like a Lexicon hardware reverb or something like the IK CSR reverbs.

[otave]

thanks for your great review so far.

I've seriously considered to get Konnket 24D
from the first time I heard about this unit.

will keep watching this review, probably asking some questions sometimes.

keep doing great work!




KJ, Korea



PS, I read many post comparing Konnket to Saffire in a few forum during my research. It seems like those units are most decent (firewire) audio interface in the market on this price range. So I believe it will be very helpful for many people if you can tell us some pros and cons or any differences in comparing two units (even if you already said you didn't have Saffire with you)

cheers,

[Anderton]

Welcome, Korea! Feel free to ask any questions you want.

I apologize for not having a Saffire. Hopefully other people who do can give their opinion of the unit.

I do believe, though, that these days the quality of the commodity items (converters, preamps, etc.) are pretty much the same for all preamps. Where the differences occur are in the software drivers, things like circuit board layout and shielding (something analog designers know about, but maybe not some digital engineers), and most importantly, the functionality - what functions the company thinks are important, and how they're implemented.

[ribot]

Hi,

I purchased the Konnekt 24D two weeks ago (Germany, Hanover).
Testing (advice from tc support!!??) 3 different firewire pci cards
TI chip (did not work, stuttering!!, chip was recommended by TC support!!??),
NEC chip (worked the best!!!, "culprit" said TC Support),
VIA (buggy, sound disappears after some minutes, was recommended by TC), yes I changed pci slots for every card, there were no additional pci cards attached.

Trying/using three different PCs a msi pentium 4, 3GHz an ASROCK Athlon Sempron (2800) and a brand new ASUS duo core 2 (onboard firewire) with the latest updates and firmware the Konnekt 24 (new firmware and driver) did not perform fast enough for guitar playing with guitar rig.

Using a buffer of 128 (64 did not work) I only get (every system!!!) 11ms (probably more overall latency); there is quite an annoying delay!!!

Other firewire interfaces are noticeably faster and ok/sufficent "direct" with guitar rig (RME, even Terratec!!!). The Konnekt interface sounds incredible, superior (dsp!!!) but seems (at least drivers) not good enough (there are certain bugs) for this and fast applications!

Also I could not use the konnekt with an apple quad with tiger (no!!! connection, spent 1 hour!). I will probably return the konnekt since it is a lame duck using beta drivers!
What a pity!
And yes I contacted the tc support three times (very fast) but not helpful!

"Beta Tester" Kai

Why not telling the truth? Our drivers are not ready/too slow yet but we had to launch our product before xmas!

[Cmusicmaker]

I trust you guys at TC will look into any initial issues with the Konnekt (these things can happen) so you might want to talk to Ableton about this one if you are not aware of this already...

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=50746

[Anderton]

I read the comments on the Live forum. I haven't tried the Konnekt with Live 6, just 5.0.3, and got reliable recording with 128 samples. Here's what I found were the lowest number of samples I could use with various programs and the Konnekt 24D, this is "reprinted" from a few pages back:

Cubase 4: 128 samples
Ableton Live 5.0.3: 128 samples
Acid Pro 6.0: 128 samples
Tracktion: 64 samples
Guitar Rig 2 (stand-alone mode): 128 samples
Sonar (ASIO): 256 samples
Sonar (WDM): 256 samples

The only program that seemed not to get along with the existing drivers is Sonar, as I can get 128 samples with other interfaces.

I'm wondering if the "stuttering" and other problems are sync-related, not FireWire. The Konnekt 24D software is a bit confusing as there are sync settings on two different pages. I mentioned this earlier in the thread as well. Also, there is new software on the TC web site. I never used the original software, I started off directly with the new software so I don't know if the original software had problems.

The FireWire card I'm using is a TI chipset. It's a card I bought from Circuit City in 2000 for about $50, so it's not a top of the line model.

I have no idea why I was able to get the results given above and others have problems -- particularly Live, as it worked quite well (although I am disappointed with the results with Sonar). Maybe it's just my ADK computer, it makes software look good

[ribot]

By the way,

1. I am not interested in values (ms, buffer size, super new mint technology etc. ), and I am aware of the disadvantages of firewire and bill gates esoteric. But it is not ok to launch a product for 500 euro which is not tested and noticeably slower than a 5 year old pod 1 or terratec ewx 24/96!!! It does not make any sense to use such a device for real time vst recording and guitar playing!!! It feels simply {censored}ty.

2. It is not ok to blame my system and hardware (firewire pci chips) when tc did not made their homework! I spent about 10 hours with 4 different systems (all with different quality hardware and optimized for recording) and three different pci firewire cards (50 euro) with the same lame result (even no sound with apple quad!!!).

An angry costumer!

Kai

P.S. I like denmark and other TC products a lot and do not want to support RME (i do not need 8 inputs) and Terratec (I bought their piece of junk EWS 64 XL, it never worked!!!!)

[Mike Martin]

Ribot,
First of all, I'm sorry for the troubles you're having. I'll do my best to help you from this end. Second, I don't think anyone here has blamed your system for anything either....but what you're describing is very ususual.

If you talked to TC Tech support they should have given you a case or incident #. Sent it to me in a PM, I can see what TC (Denmark) has to say about your specific issue.

I have one quick question about something that often gets overlooked. Have you tried another firewire cable?

We're also just a couple days from a new driver release that adds many cool new features and improvments.

-Mike Martin
TC|US

[ribot]

Thanks Mike,

I really appreciate your help!

Incident:061113-000035

Serial Number 8142387

My main problem is the latency, I cannot use guitar rig with about 19 ms overall latency! The device is working with the NEC based pci chip (some minor bugs).

The latency is the same with every pc system I tested!
It has nothing to do with the performance of the connected computer!!!

Ok, tomorrow I will use another firewire cable (I do not think this will improve things, I used two different cables)

Sincerely
Kai

Excerpt from the TC support answer:

"From the description of you setup I think that we can be fairly sure that a driver update will not fix the issue. The most likely culprit is the NEC chipset on your firewire card. These are notoriously bad when it comes to iso synchronous data transfer(such as the transfer performed by an audio interface).
I would suggest getting a Texas Instruments based chipset instead. These generally perform the best. I would advice you to stear clear of NEC(like the one you have) ALI, Agere, combined USB/FIWI, and PCI cards from Belkin.
If no TI based cards fit your needs VIA VT6306 usually does the job aswell.

Please try this and get back to us with the result."

[Cmusicmaker]

Originally posted by Anderton I'm wondering if the "stuttering" and other problems are sync-related, not FireWire. The Konnekt 24D software is a bit confusing as there are sync settings on two different pages. I mentioned this earlier in the thread as well. Also, there is new software on the TC web site. I never used the original software, I started off directly with the new software so I don't know if the original software had problems. The FireWire card I'm using is a TI chipset. It's a card I bought from Circuit City in 2000 for about $50, so it's not a top of the line model. I have no idea why I was able to get the results given above and others have problems -- particularly Live, as it worked quite well (although I am disappointed with the results with Sonar). Maybe it's just my ADK computer, it makes software look good

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing that Craig. At least it *is* possible to get the Konnekt working with Live 5.

We're also just a couple days from a new driver release that adds many cool new features and improvments.

Perhaps that driver release will likely solve any initial issues. Nice to see a quick driver update Mike..

[Anderton]

Another thing worth emphasizing is that I do NOT think that Ribot's results are typical, but I also don't think it's his fault (e.g., chip set etc.). If there's one thing I've learned about computer-based systems, it's that one piece of conflicting software can totally screw up your system. For example, I found that my computer loaded two firewire applets from previously-installed interfaces on startup. When I eliminated those, my firewire performance improved dramatically. Why was there a problem? I have no idea!!

Like I have no idea about why sometimes my CD-ROM takes 10x as long to copy files over as it does the rest of the time...

[gmore]

I've been using a Saffire for 6 months, and recently test drove the 24D.
As far as sound quality and noise are concerned (condenser dry or with Channel FX), I could'nt pick a clear winner - both quite good to my ear. The added De-esser on the 24D and control made the TC much more versatile, and the TC's Reverb is in a different league.

Craig, I found my units 3/4 inputs to be a tad weak for my application (mid-grade keyboard outs), was curious as to your findings ?

[Anderton]

I've just been feeding in typical line level outs (e.g., from CD player, XM radio output when I recorded Armin Van Buuren's "State of Trance" program , that sort of thing. I can check out some keys as well when I get back to it tomorrow.

[Anderton]

As far as sound quality and noise are concerned (condenser dry or with Channel FX), I could'nt pick a clear winner - both quite good to my ear.>>

That sort of supports my theory that these days, within a particular price range, there aren't huge differences in quality among pieces of gear -- although there may be some quantitative differences.

[Mike Martin]

Originally posted by Anderton So why is stand-alone mode useful? Well, TC probably had loftier apps in mind .....

Craig,
There are lots of applications.

One many people don't realize is that you could use Konnekt 24D as an effects processor for another system too. You could hook it up to another mixer's effects sends. You have control over reverb time and reverb mix (if neccessary) via the Light Ring.

Certainly for a small live performance it would work nicely without the need for any other mixer.

-Mike Martin
TC|US

[Mike Martin]

Originally posted by Anderton ......But there's more: Push the knob, and it controls pan for the selected source. Then leave the knob alone for a second, and it reverts back to being a volume control....

 

 

There is one other fun thing about the Light Ring assignment thats easy to miss. If your user assignment is the Master Fader, pushing the knob in functions has a handy DIM switch.

[Fredsa]

hi,
what about thoes dsp effects? :-)