TC ELECTRONIC KONNEKT 24D (FireWire Audio Interface)

[Anderton]

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Good point. I knew this, but was locked into the "send/receive" mindset of trying to do the processing virtually. And it's also worth mentioning that Cubase can adjust for latency going through external effects -- a very cool feature.

But this also brings up something else I haven't mentioned: You can treat the 24D as a stand-alone effects processor just by using the ins and outs. For example, you could put it in the aux bus of a mixer.

[Anderton]

 

 

It sounds like you know what you're doing, so don't take this as insulting, but is the applet mixer gain-staged correctly? I have the opposite situation-- I have to be careful with levels, or I overload the host program's inputs.

[Anderton]

By the way, I will be getting into the reverb sound quality in detail later on, but I thought I should at least mention that my initial impressions are extremely favorable. Long tails don't have that "periodic" sound I find so annoying in some other reverb software.

[cambrook]

I'm interested in the Konnekt 8, but was reading somewhere that the output volume knob only controls the main outputs and not the headphone outputs. Is this the case, does the headphone volume have to be adjusted in software?

Thanks,

Cam

[shawn fin]

You needn't worry about insulting me:) The truth is, I don't know if I know how to set the applet mixer's gain-stage correctly (at least, I'm unsure of what you mean). Please explain... I have the output set to zero. The input level doesn't appear to be controllable within the software dialogue but only by the gain knob on the unit. "Headroom" does appear to be the concern. The preamps sound good; although, as I mentioned, they will clip when the gain is 1/3 of the way up. At this point, I am barely hitting zero db. Shouldn't I be able to crank the gain quite a bit beyond the 1/3 point before going into the red? I'm certainly not screaming into the mic. Furthermore, if I clap my hands before the mic, it will ocassionally clip at very low levels. Your experience with the unit resembles the one I have with my Voicemaster--that is, I can clip the recording levels much sooner than the preamp. Can I do something to change this or might it be the a signal processing flaw within my specific unit? I hope not. I like it very much. Maybe Mike has a thought as well.

[Anderton]

I'm interested in the Konnekt 8, but was reading somewhere that the output volume knob only controls the main outputs and not the headphone outputs. Is this the case, does the headphone volume have to be adjusted in software?

 

Well that's not quite right. There are two headphone jacks, muting and non-muting. When you plug a set of headphones into the muting jacks, the main outputs (1 and 2) are muted. When you plug headphones into the non-muting jack, the same signal appears at the headphones and the main outs.

 

However, I can't find any way to control the headphone amp independently from the main outs. The software monitor output level fader controls both phones and main outs, as does the front panel output level control. It would make more sense to me if the software fader controlled only the level going to the main outs, and the front panel output level control affected the level in the phones.

[Anderton]

About the mic dynamic range thing...if you push in the pad switch for channel 1, that restricts the level going to the channel 1 mic preamp; the front panel control will affect the channel 1 mic gain. Look at the channel 1 meter in the applet: You should be able to scream into the mic with the front panel control up halfway, and not come close to going into the red on the channel meter (my meter registers around -20dB). The applet channel 1 fader sets the post-preamp level going to the output and I believe it has nothing to do with preamp headroom. Channel 2 works similarly.

[cambrook]

Sorry to be dense about this - as you can tell I'm a newbie

If I use the headphones in the muting position does the volume knob change the H/P level?

Or do I have to use the non-muting position and not use the main outs?

Thanks again

[Anderton]

If I use the headphones in the muting position does the volume knob change the H/P level?

 

Yes. The output level control always affects headphone level, no matter what else is happening.

[Fredsa]

Thanks Craig ( and Mike!), thsi sounds more and more like a box ypou should own! I am eagerly waiting for your take on the Reverb...any ways I gather that if I am to use the effects in Cubase SX as external effects then the mixing will need to be done real time of course, If you have a chance can you tell me how well the delay compensation will work with both Reverb and Fabrik C?

[miziq]

One more thing that bewilders me?

Can fabrik and fabrik r be used simultaniusly? For example: can you use reverb and eq-compression at the same time on guitar or vocal, and hear-record the result?

I wonder too, how quiality is reverb comparing to other software or hardware reverbs?

[gmore]

Hello Craig, was curious if you've had a chance to test inputs 3/4.
My keyboards outs with its volume cranked (not ideal but...) can easily clip thru 1/2 (with modest settings), but barely moves the input meter thru 3/4 ?

[Yggdrasil]

I also found that the gain of the signal on rear panel inputs is quite low ...

[Anderton]

Can fabrik and fabrik r be used simultaniusly? For example: can you use reverb and eq-compression at the same time on guitar or vocal, and hear-record the result?

Yes, except that at higher sample rates (at 96kHz and probably 88.2kHz, I'm away from my music computer at the moment) you have to choose to use one or the other.

I wonder too, how quiality is reverb comparing to other software or hardware reverbs?

I'll be getting into that after I cover the interface, but so far I'm very impressed -- and I generally don't like digital reverbs

I'll answer the other questions when I'm back in the studio.

[Levitator]

Hi Craig,

If possible, I’d also like to hear some samples with the reverb from 24D with a basic description of presets that were used to process that sample

Thanks

[Anderton]

I will be posting some audio examples, but bear in mind that this BBS software currently limits me to about 7 seconds of stereo MP3 at 128kbps -- so it won't show off the fidelity very well. But you can still hear the character of the reverb, and given that it's impressive at 128kbps, you can imagine what it would be like at full fidelity.

[miziq]

Tommorow i'm going shopping.

So guys I'm i doing the right thing?

[Anderton]

Well, I'm not up to the "conclusions" part yet, but...

On the plus side, it sounds really good. The preamps are clean and quiet, the Fabrik processors are superb added value, the instrument ins are of a suitably high impedance, and the clock is stable. You can use the effects as send/receive effects with hosts, as well as do things like have a vocalist monitor with reverb, but record the signal dry or wet.

It's also convenient that the ADAT optical input provides an expansion "back door" if you need more ins. I covered this in the DigiMAX FS Pro Review, as it makes a nice companion piece to the K24D. It can run independently of the computer, so it will work as a stand-alone processor, headphone amp, and monitor for devices with SPDIF outs (optical or coaxial). Besides, it's built well and looks cool , and the price ($625 list) is certainly reasonable.

One other thing I've neglected to mention, but may be important to you, is that you can link up to four K24D units if you need more I/O or preamps. The only negative with that is you can't bus-power more than one unit at a time, but if you have four K24Ds hooked up, you're probably not sitting in the middle of the forest recording bird calls anyway.

My complaints are minimal so far, the main one being that the drivers don't seem to be very solid with Sonar. You can't use the effects as VST inserts in the traditional sense, except with Cubase SX3/4 (although I did describe a workaround above), nor can you insert the two Fabrik C channel strips in anything other than inputs 1 and 2 (although it will function as a send/receive effect, like Fabrik R). I've also had some problems playing back material with QuickTime 7 on Windows, but I believe that is likely a problem at Apple's end or with my particular system, because QT7 also "broke" the E-Mu 1820m, which had worked fine with previous versions of QT. I called E-Mu about this, and they said it was a known problem where they were awaiting information from Apple. Any other cons are more like minor "annoyances," e.g., the fact that you can't set the headphone monitor volume independently of the overall output level, or that there's not a huge amount of gain for inputs 3/4.

The one "con" that probably cannot be changed is that at 96kHz, you have to choose between running the Fabrik R or C -- you can't do both. I think that's likely due to DSP hardware limitations, because the Fabrik R can't sound as good as it does without crunching a lot of numbers. I'm not surprised that if you ask it to crunch those numbers twice as fast, that it maxes out what the DSP can do.

So if you can live with any limitations and take advantage of all the cool features the K24D offers, yes, you're indeed making the right decision. Also, based on TC's past performance, updates are likely that will add more functionality and/or improve driver performance. I think this interface is going to do well for them.

[Anderton]

First of all, this is no “lite” reverb. I first saw it at the Frankfurt Messe last year, where it was being demoed (if I recall correctly) as part of their big-bucks System 6000. It sounded fine, but what intrigued me more was the interface. Click on the attachment to see the interface.

Props to TC for trying to think outside of the box with a software interface, but additional props for actually pulling it off. Although I never was afraid of knobs and entering numbers in parameters, people who want a more “musical” interface than just entering numbers will find this a breath of fresh air.

There are four main algorithms (Live, Hall, Plate, and Club); you select the one you want by clicking on the associated button. In the screen shot, Fabrik Hall is selected. Then you have the “tweak” pane, and this is the innovative part. There are four draggable circles, each of which controls multiple parameters under one “master” control. For example, the screen shot shows the “color” parameter. As you drag the circle toward the “Hi-C” area, the highs are emphasized. Dragging it toward the “Lo-C” area emphasizes the lows. Dragging upward toward “Hi-F” determines the filter characteristics that affect the high frequency coloration.

What’s cool about this is you can just kind of drag the circle around until it sounds right. The settings of the three parameters under control of the circle are shown along the bottom, and if you’re more traditionally oriented, you can drag the numerical to change the value, or enter a value directly by typing it in.

The other parameters are:

“R” adjusts pre-delay and reverb decay time simultaneously. This is really obvious: Drag to the lower left corner, and there is no pre-delay and no decay time. Drag to the upper right, and you have the maximum setting for both (100ms pre-delay, 20 seconds decay time). Upper left is max pre-delay and minimum decay, lower right is min pre-delay and max decay. Any place in between these extremes produces a mix of the two.

“M” is a modulation parameter that controls two parameters, rate and depth.

“D” is the “distance/level” control that puts the dry, early reflections, and reverb mix parameters under one control.

[Anderton]

I wanted to do a few audio examples, so I fired up Sonar 6. But I’ve come to the conclusion that for whatever reason, the K24D just doesn’t get along with S6; I’m hoping the next Konnekt 24D driver update (or Sonar 6 update, for that matter) solves whatever the problem might be. The Konnekt 24D is useable with Sonar to some degree, but strange things happen and I just don’t have the time to deal with a situation where restarting the program is a common occurrence.

So I switched over to Cubase 4, and thought I’d try what Mike mentioned about using Fabrik R as if it was a VST effect. I went to the VST connections window, and under External FX, set up a send bus to the Fabrik R input and a return bus from the Fabrik R output (and remembered to set the K24D applet so the Fabrik R was in send/receive mode). Click on the attachment so see how the External FX section is set up.

Now, I’ve used the external FX feature in Cubase SX3 to feed external analog effects, but this was something new for me and wouldn’t you know, right there in the input channel, under Insert Effects, Fabrik R showed up on the menu. Cool! The coolness factor is mitigated by the fact that you can only do a true insert effect in one channel, but of course, you can always stick the Fabrik R in an FX channel and treat it as a send effect if you want to process multiple channels. Although I thought at first that I wasn't able to have the K24D applet open and tweak the sound while Cubase was playing back, that was only because "Release Driver when Application is in Background" was checked on the Device Setup page. One I unchecked that, all was well.

Yes, that was pretty impressive. Okay, back to creating some audio examples with Fabrik R.

[Fredsa]

Craig, would you elaborate on line 3-4 having "not an awfull amount of gain"...or how you put it!

[Anderton]

It's funny, but this same issue came up with the Mackie Onyx 400F: The non-instrument line ins just didn't seem to have a lot of gain.

For example, I plugged my Peavey DPM-3, an older synthesizer, into inputs 3/4 and kicked the gain up as far as it would go (at the synth and the K24D), yet the highest levels I could get were around -6dB. To put things in perspective, that's usually where I like to hit anyway -- I'm one of those people who would rather have a bit more headroom and not worry about losing 1 bit of resolution. But still, that seems a little stingy.

I also tried plugging in a couple of consumer electronics pieces -- a Sony Minidisc, and a Pioneer XM To Go receiver. With the MD, I came out of the line outs, and the XM To Go, the headphone outs. With both cranked to their maximum levels, I wasn't able to get much more than -15dB or so.

Of course, if I patched them into the instrument inputs, I could get plenty of gain. But if you're planning on using the K24D onstage, and you have some older synths around that don't have real hot levels, don't expect that ins 3/4 will bring them up sufficiently to match signal sources you have plugged into inputs 1/2.

[Anderton]

As promised, it's time for some audio examples because I can tell you all day the Fabrik R sounds great...but hearing is believing.

Please note: When you download any of these examples, if they have a .PHP extension, change them to .MP3 and they will play in iTunes, Windows Media Player, etc.

This first example is just taking a percussive transient and triggering a long tail from the Hall algorithm. As you'll hear, even through it's an MP3, the tail is silky smooth and doesn't have any annoying periodicity or artifacts.

[Anderton]

This example uses the plate algorithm instead. You can actually make it a bit brighter, but I decided to bring the brightness down so it would be a little "warmer." Again, the sound quality is beyond reproach.

[Anderton]

Same thing -- impulse through algorithm -- but using the Live algorithm. TC says this one is a bit grainier and has more presence, and it does.