VOX TONELAB LE (GUITAR MULTI-EFFECTS PROCESSOR)

[RTSMUSIC]

Jon you filled every question that could arrise after the initial basic answer-Your good at this man

[Jess]

 

Originally Posted by Jon Chappell

The ToneLab has three gain controls, and the Channel Volume acts like the "final output" control, or what you want the ultimate loudness to be. It doesn't interact in the way a gain and master volume do -- that's the function of the Gain and VR Gain.

So as far as a rule of thumb, I would put lead patches at a little louder than rhythm ones, distorted patches louder than clean ones. You could run your two contrasting levels at, say, 7 and 10. You're supposed to use the Channel Volume to balance sounds between patches, so you don't want to have to constantly make a volume adjustment (either with the pedal or an amp tweak), every time you switch from rhythm to lead, so experiment (you might determine 6 and 10 is better), but I'd recommend running the channel volume high (9 or 10) for your loudest setting. You paid for all those digital bits, so make them work for you.

 

Thanx for the tips Jon......

[Terence T]

Anyone know what other recording gear was used recording the LE demos on the Vox website? Thanks...

[cupax]

I own the SE and think that the worst part of it is the compressor. For me is completely useless, since it is totaly too strong, it pumps up the volume way to much, non transparent at all even at minimum settings.

Does LE have a better compressor?

I was also thinking to get an external comp pedal...

[Mozo]

I would apppreciate any advice about the best amp to pair with the ToneLab LE. Since the LE I ordered has not yet arrived, my local music store has provided an SE that I've been using in conjunction with the VOX ADVT50. The redundancy of this pairing seems wrong and sounds kind of mushy in the bottom. I think I could be getting much better tones with the LE paired with a stereo amplifier driving 2 separate cabinets each with a JBL E-Series 12 inch speaker.

My goal is to be able to generate a wide variety of tones (Metheny, Carleton, SRV, Jeff Beck) using the same guitar, modeling unit and amplification. I would also like to keep the amount equipment small, so that it can fit in the back of a VW Golf. (Perhaps I expect too much.)

Any opinions about the best amplification would be greatly appreciated. Apologies in advance if this subject has already been addressed.

[GCDEF]

 

Originally Posted by Mozo

I would apppreciate any advice about the best amp to pair with the ToneLab LE. Since the LE I ordered has not yet arrived, my local music store has provided an SE that I've been using in conjunction with the VOX ADVT50. The redundancy of this pairing seems wrong and sounds kind of mushy in the bottom. I think I could be getting much better tones with the LE paired with a stereo amplifier driving 2 separate cabinets each with a JBL E-Series 12 inch speaker.

My goal is to be able to generate a wide variety of tones (Metheny, Carleton, SRV, Jeff Beck) using the same guitar, modeling unit and amplification. I would also like to keep the amount equipment small, so that it can fit in the back of a VW Golf. (Perhaps I expect too much.)

Any opinions about the best amplification would be greatly appreciated. Apologies in advance if this subject has already been addressed.

 

I used a Carvin AG100D with my Tonelab SE. It's basically a little combo sized PA, even though they advertise it as an acoustic guitar amp. It worked really well. Small, full range speakers, 100 watts. From there, I'd just run a line out to the PA. That way, I'd be hearing very close to the same thing on stage that was going out to the house.

You really want a full range amp and speakers such as a powered monitor or keyboard amp. A guitar amp's going to add its own distortions and frequency humps and guitar speakers will have a limited frequency range and uneven frequency response. You may be able to get good sounds out of it, but you'll limit what you can do. As an example, if the Tonelab is trying to model a speaker with a usable frequency response up to 6.5k, but your guitar amp can only reproduce 5.5k, you're going to lose some of the effect of the model. If your guitar speaker has a 6dB spike at a certain frequency, while the amp or speaker being modeled doesn't, what you hear won't be an accurate representation of what the Tonelab is putting out.

[teetop]

I second the Carvin AG100D. Although I find that it seems just a bit weak of 100 watts, it provides a very clean, colorless sound that I wanted, in order to let the Tonelab do all the toning work. Plus, it has a 5-band EQ, four decent effects, and three channels each with EQ shaping capabilities. Quite a versatile amp that does lots of things well.

A lot of people recommend going straight from Tonelab to the PA, ostensibly to get a colorless amplified sound as well.

I have no data to test this or make conclusions, but I wonder if a Tonelab through a Marshall would still sound like a Marshall regardless of the amp simulation chosen. Anyone try this?

Mark

[jpleong]

My recommendation would be a Mackie SRM450 or (barring that) an SRM350. I used to have a Carvin AG100D and was almost never satisfied with its volume or consistency of tone. One of the big problems I have with it is the fact that its tweeter dispersion pattern is very tight. As soon as you're an inch off-axis, the highs disappear.

I actually wrote an HC review of the AG100D which was very positive because of its flexibility and tone but after using the Mackies and knowing your particular requirements (something simple is probably best), the AG100D simply can't compete with the SRM series. The SRM450/350 is the best you'll get for under a grand.

JP

[Jon Chappell]

 

Originally Posted by jpleong

One of the big problems I have with it is the fact that its tweeter dispersion pattern is very tight. As soon as you're an inch off-axis, the highs disappear.JP

 

I've found this problem with a lot of other full-range combo amps, too. And the Mackie SRM450 certainly solves the tweeter-dispersion issue mightily. Plus, the SRM450 can double as a P.A. system (as nature intended), especially if you can afford to buy another one, so you have some versatility there. Also, if you did (eventually) buy a pair of SRM450's, you could run the ToneLab LE in stereo, and be much more effective by placing the speakers according to the environment, rather than confining them to the space of the cabinet, like other two-speaker stereo combo amps do.The SRM450 is designed to be placed on its side (angled upward), upright, or even on a stand.

[aka_guitarist]

This thread was invaluable when I was trying to decide whether to get a Tonelab or a POD XT Live. And was further useful when I was trying to decide between the LE and SE.

Thanks, Jon (and others)

I ended up deciding on the ToneLab LE and am now working to take full advantage of it.

One thing that didn't get mentioned anywhere I looked was that the LE and SE have incompatable patch files. So based on what I know now, patches created for the SE cannot be loaded into the LE (and viceversa). This didn't come as a complete shock nor would it have been a deciding factor had I known before I got the LE. I am mentioning it in case it might matter to someone researching the pros and cons of the ToneLab LE.

So at this point I am looking for any information on the ToneLab LE regarding utilities for converting/analyzing LE and SE patch files, or even just the internal file format definition the patch files use. I emailed Vox requesting this kind of info also. Have not heard back yet.

Any links, tips, pointers, rumors, suspicions to this kind of info is appreciated.

In the meantime, I'll follow Jon's process and start exploring the Amp/cabinet section of the ToneLab LE to work toward the sounds I'm looking for in my rig.

Peace,

Mark

[Jon Chappell]

 

Originally Posted by aka_guitarist

One thing that didn't get mentioned anywhere I looked was that the LE and SE have incompatable patch files. So based on what I know now, patches created for the SE cannot be loaded into the LE (and viceversa). This didn't come as a complete shock nor would it have been a deciding factor had I known before I got the LE.

So at this point I am looking for any information on the ToneLab LE regarding utilities for converting/analyzing LE and SE patch files, or even just the internal file format definition the patch files use. I emailed Vox requesting this kind of info also. Have not heard back yet.

 

Mark, although there's no automated way to load patches from the SE into the LE, you could simply open each preset in the SE editor (you don't have to own the SE to get the editor to work on your computer), and write down the data values. Then you'd plug those numbers into the LE.

You may know this already, but I'm relaying it here in case others are wondering. I don't own the SE, but I downloaded and installed the editor/librarian with no problem. Then I opened each preset and noted the parameters given onscreen. Though it might be cumbersome to do this with all the presets, you could certainly focus on favorite, targeted sounds first, and get around to the others as priority dictates. There are only 32 presets total in the SE, so it wouldn't take you that long. Not elegant, perhaps, but doable.

I've already included a screenshot of the LE's editor/librarian previously in this forum, but here's a shot of the SE's version, where you can see that the numerical values of the parameters are clearly visible.

TONELAB SE EDITOR/LIBRARIAN:

[aka_guitarist]

Thanks, Jon. Good suggestion. I just installed the SE version of the Editor.

I'm not as interested in the SE presets as I am in all the SE patches posted on the various ToneLab forums by SE users. It seemed like a way to get a jump on some cool Tonelab sounds not covered by the presets while I'm getting up to speed on the ToneLab LE. It's not that I don't plan to make the effort to learn the LE and create patches to my personal taste, I guess it's just that instant gratification thing. Your suggestion will help.

And thanks for the tips regarding channel volumes. That's the next thing I need to work on. (Programs with boost for leads.)

You're making this way too easy, you know.

Peace,

Mark

[tnield]

Hi Jon,

How is the dotted 8 delay on the Tonelab LE? Will it give that catchy U2 Edge-like sound? Will I have to buy a Boss DD-20 to go with the Tonelab?

Thanks

[Jon Chappell]

 

Originally Posted by tnield

Hi Jon, How is the dotted 8 delay on the Tonelab LE? Will it give that catchy U2 Edge-like sound? Will I have to buy a Boss DD-20 to go with the Tonelab? Thanks

 

Of course, if you tap in exactly a dotted-8th rhythm (once) using the Tap Tempo feature mapped to the Delay Time, you can do it this way.

But I suspect you're asking if the unit will perform the math for you, and the answer is yes, and for many different divisions besides dotted-8ths. So you'd tap in quarter notes (much easier to perform precisely, especially at bright tempos), and tell the Tap Tempo to interpret that as a "factor" of your tap -- in this case, a 3/4 division (which is a dotted-8th). So the news is good for the dotted-8th freaks among us.

Here's the relevant text from p. 49 of the manual (which lists 3/4 -- dotted-8th, if you tap quarter notes -- among the choices):

***

FACTOR VALUE KNOB 5 SETTING

If the MODULATION effect’s SPEED parameter or the DELAY effect’s TIME parameter are assigned to a control switch, you can set the MODULATION effect’s LFO SPEED or the DELAY effect’s DELAY TIME by the interval at which you press the control switch twice. When you do so, the interval at which you actually press the pedal will be applied to the parameter at a “factor” (i.e., multiple) of 1/6, 1/4, 1/3, 1/2, 2/3, 3/4, 1, 4/3, 3/2, 2, 3, or 4, according to the setting of the FACTOR parameter (value knob 5).

***

BTW, I am well versed in the dotted-8th delay technique. Check out my flatpicked rendition of this well-known "circus music" tune, "El Cumbanchero": The first section is flatpicked normally. The second pass is executed entirely with a dotted-eighth setting on the delay. The picked notes here are actually slower, and therefore more easily played, than those in the previous section.

"El Cumbanchero" with dotted-8th delay

Shameless plug dept.: The tab for this arrangement (including an explanation on how to convert tempo in bpm to delay time in ms) is in my book (which includes a CD) "Great Country Riffs for Guitar Vol. II" (Hal Leonard Publishing).

Hope this helps.

[Umut]

Hi,

I have a fender strat with texas pickups and the humming is usually a problem for me. I used to have a Zoom GFX-8 and its noise gate was excellent.

The I tried a korg ax3000. The tones were good, the effects were good, but the noise gate was horrible. It killed the sustain. Zoom gfx-8 was also degrading the sustain but this unit really made it impossible for me to use it although I liked almost everything else about it.

I know that the effects in vox tonelab are done by toneworks (korg). How would you comment on the noise gate of this pedal? I mean when using hot single coils?

[HKSblade1]

NG is not very good (so-so) on the LE or the SE

[13bats]

I have a quick question im hoping someone can answer .In the new Tonelab ads It shows the display as red Led not the yellow screen shown on Vox .com .also the footswitch lights are all green leds .Has Vox changed the design to the Red led screen or is it just a mistake????

[Theowilson]

Hi!

I haven´t figured out how to change the valve!

It seems difficult to me.

Does anybody know how?

thanks.

[GCDEF]

 

Originally Posted by Theowilson

Hi!

I haven´t figured out how to change the valve!

It seems difficult to me.

Does anybody know how?

thanks.

 

Why would you want to do that?

[edeibler2000]

 

Originally Posted by GCDEF

Why would you want to do that?

 

I have the SE and I will say that I liked the sound of a JJEE83C (or something like that ) better than the stock EH12AX7 with which it shipped. It sounded fuller and not quite as fizzy when using overdriven settings. That being said while the swap was a bit cumbersome it was certainly do-able. It looks like the LE would be a much bigger pain in the behind, since the tube instead of being behind an easily removed plastic bubble is now buried beneath the case.

eric

[echoshock]

Hi,

I'm using the LE through the digital out. I'm getting digital 'clicks' every once in a while, while playing. I assume it has to be the LE (as opposed to my wires) since there are no clicks when LE is turned off.

Any ideas? I have the LE set to line in and the clicks occur at all SPDIF output levels... Thanks

[lenster]

I've recently sold my Zoom G9 and think i may have done the wrong thing.

After a couple of amp problems i think i want to go back to a MFX.

1- for effcts thru the loop or 4CM.

2 - for back up direct to PA if my new amp fails during a gig .

Before i decide i woould like to know wether the Tonelab LE can be used thru the loop primarily 4 Delay , Chorus ,. & EQ Boost

And can it be used with the 4CM.

Cheers.

[Jon Chappell]

 

Originally Posted by lenster

i woould like to know wether the Tonelab LE can be used thru the loop primarily 4 Delay , Chorus ,. & EQ Boost And can it be used with the 4CM.

 

The answers are yes: you can use your amp's loop feature to access just the mod effects (we've covered that in this forum). And any multi-effects with a loop can employ 4CM (four-cable method). Here's how you'd route the cables for the ToneLab:

Cable 1: Guitar OUT to ToneLab IN

Cable 2: ToneLab SEND to Amp IN

Cable 3: Amp SEND to ToneLab RETURN

Cable 4: ToneLab OUT to Amp RETURN

ToneLab settings: Pedal, Amp/Cab sims OFF, select Line2 output to use EQ.

For readers wondering about "4CM": 4CM is available to people who have an amp with an effects loop and a multi-effects processor with a loop. This method allows you to do two things:

   1. Use just the amp's preamp (avoiding the mfx's preamp stage)

   2. Place the mfx's modulation/ambient effects after the preamp stage, where they're arguably best suited.

[lenster]

 

Originally Posted by Jon Chappell

The answers are yes: you can use your amp's loop feature to access just the mod effects (we've covered that in this forum). And any multi-effects with a loop can employ 4CM (four-cable method). Here's how you'd route the cables for the ToneLab:

Cable 1: Guitar OUT to ToneLab IN

Cable 2: ToneLab SEND to Amp IN

Cable 3: Amp SEND to ToneLab RETURN

Cable 4: ToneLab OUT to Amp RETURN

ToneLab settings: Pedal, Amp/Cab sims OFF, select Line2 output to use EQ.

For readers wondering about "4CM": 4CM is available to people who have an amp with an effects loop and a multi-effects processor with a loop. This method allows you to do two things:

***1. Use just the amp's preamp (avoiding the mfx's preamp stage)

***2. Place the mfx's modulation/ambient effects after the preamp stage, where they're arguably best suited.

 

Thanx for your reply Jon.

I tried out the Tonelab LE yesterday at my local music store and was very impressed. Knowing that i have a back up to run thru the PA is also a bonus.

My heart wants the Visual sound H2O /Route 66, but my head tells me to buy the Tonelab for peace of mind.

thanx again fot this great review .

[echoshock]

Jon, any idea on the SPDIF clicks I mentioned above? Anyone else using the digital out?

Thanks