VOX TONELAB LE (GUITAR MULTI-EFFECTS PROCESSOR)

[Jon Chappell]

 

Originally Posted by echoshock

Jon, any idea on the SPDIF clicks I mentioned above?

 

We should take a look at your setup.

1. What are you running the S/PDIF into? Are you on Windows XP SP2?

2. What software and what drivers are you using? ASIO, DirectX?

3. Clicks (and dropouts) can sometimes mean CPU overload. Did you try increasing the latency/buffer size? (This is easier to do in an ASIO-based system.)

If this starts to get complicated, we might want to take it offline (via PM's), but I'll be glad to help you. Just so you know, I've used the digital output and haven't experienced any problems.

[Terence T]

 

Originally Posted by echoshock

Jon, any idea on the SPDIF clicks I mentioned above? Anyone else using the digital out?

Thanks

 

I've had the LE a few hours now. I'm also getting clicks recording digital, with the same settings I use for my old Tonelab desktop. (ie. interface and sequencer configured for digital).

Also, as soon as I carefully inserted the optical cable the plastic cover of the digital out came off.

My other initial impressions are not good, it seems to be cheaply put together in comparison to the original.

Sound wise I fail to see any significant improvement.

I'll be trying it for a while longer but at this stage I'll probably be sticking with my original Tonelab.

Hope you're having more luck...

[echoshock]

 

Originally Posted by Jon Chappell

We should take a look at your setup.

1. What are you running the S/PDIF into? Are you on Windows XP SP2?

2. What software and what drivers are you using? ASIO, DirectX?

3. Clicks (and dropouts) can sometimes mean CPU overload. Did you try increasing the latency/buffer size? (This is easier to do in an ASIO-based system.)

If this starts to get complicated, we might want to take it offline (via PM's), but I'll be glad to help you. Just so you know, I've used the digital output and haven't experienced any problems.

 

Jon thanks for your help. I corrected the issue. I have the Tonelab going into my Tascam FW1082 and changed the digital clock settings and that seems to have removed the digital clicks.

Thanks

[edeibler2000]

 

Originally Posted by echoshock

Jon thanks for your help. I corrected the issue. I have the Tonelab going into my Tascam FW1082 and changed the digital clock settings and that seems to have removed the digital clicks.

Thanks

 

I've also got the 1082. I was experiencing clicking when hooking up my Adrenalinn via spdif. I changed the clock setting of the 1082 from internal to external and that cleared everything up.

eric

[Marc Dude]

Sounds like tubes... great.

Sounds like a preamp... oh dear.

Sorry, IMO lacks a large bottom* (decent cab simulation) and power amp smoothness.

* Means I don't think you can do a decent rendition of 'Fat Bottom Girls' with it ;O)

Cheers,

Dude

http://www.dudemusic.tv

[Fooll]

I currently play a Rickenbacker 620/6 thru the Vox ac30. I also have a Rick 360/12 that I have difficulties playing. I plan on buying the TL LE and would like to know if it has the effect to give a 6 string a 12 sting sound..

If so, I may be trading my 12 for another 6.

Thanks.........

[Nuno_F]

Can anyone tell me if the insert send and return is placed before or after the AD conversion? Can't find this info anywhere.

Thanks

[Jon Chappell]

 

Originally Posted by Fooll

I currently play a Rickenbacker 620/6 thru the Vox ac30. I also have a Rick 360/12 that I have difficulties playing. I plan on buying the TL LE and would like to know if it has the effect to give a 6 string a 12 sting sound.

 

No, the ToneLab LE can't make your 6 sound like a 12. That would be a job for the Line 6 Variax, the Roland VG Strat, VG-88, or other guitar-modeling system. The ToneLab does have an acoustic modeler in the Pedal Effects section, but it's an effect -- simulating acoustic response using EQ and, presumably, phasing. (I'm guessing here, because the manual doesn't state how the effect works, but that's how these devices usually operate.)

[Jon Chappell]

 

Originally Posted by Nuno_F

Can anyone tell me if the insert send and return is placed before or after the AD conversion? Can't find this info anywhere.

 

You're right, it's not in the manual. So the A/D must be just after the Insert and before the Pedal Effect stage.

Since your inserted effects are in the analog domain, the A/D can't be before this; and since the Pedal Effects section is digital and is the next stage in the schematic, the A/D must be just before this. So the revised schematic would look like this:

Guitar -> Insert Effect -> A/D -> Pedal Effect -> [etc.]

[Nuno_F]

 

Originally Posted by Jon Chappell

You're right, it's not in the manual. So the A/D must be just after the Insert and before the Pedal Effect stage.

Since your inserted effects are in the analog domain, the A/D can't be before this; and since the Pedal Effects section is the next stage in the schematic, the A/D must be just before this.

Guitar -> Insert Effect -> A/D -> Pedal Effect -> [etc.]

 

Right. That was what I was thinking as it wouldn't make any sense having and extra AD/DA there. It would be more expensive and unnecessary.

Thanks for the reply.

[Otherness]

Hello

I am very interested in the TLLE ( I almost bought an SE a few years ago ), and have been a silent reader of this post for the past few weeks. Everything I have read and seen about the TLLE seems to fit what I need, though I do have one question regarding the sound transition between program changes. I play fairly lush, atmospheric guitar (think The Cure, Smiths, Radiohead, Cocteau Twins, etc...) and have been a user of a multiple pedal set up for years ( Gibson 335 or Deluxe Tele through a Vox Wah, DD-5, DAN-Echo, VS Route 66, Daddy O, Echo-Plex, Cool Cat, etc... into a Fender Twin ) and have become very use to and accustomed to the sounds that I get.

My question is when playing a fairly lush say Rhythm part and I need to switch to a more gritty distorted part, will the lush Rhythm part still echo out while I have switched patches to the gritty distorted part or will it cut off?

The other guitarist in my band has a PODXT Live and is frustrated by some of these shortcomings. I want to get into multi-effects to broaden my sounds and create more, than to just rely on my old stand-by sounds. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks!

[Nuno_F]

Another question, anyone who has Amplitube 2.1 and the tonelab can tell me how the clean sounds compare? I am not really that happy with the clean sounds in amplitube, will the tonelab be a significant improvement?

I am looking for all kinds of clean sound, from jazz to reggae, funk, etc....

[Jon Chappell]

 

Originally Posted by Otherness

... I do have one question regarding the sound transition between program changes. I play fairly lush, atmospheric guitar (think The Cure, Smiths, Radiohead, Cocteau Twins, etc...) and have been a user of a multiple pedal set up for years (Gibson 335 or Deluxe Tele through a Vox Wah, DD-5, DAN-Echo, VS Route 66, Daddy O, Echo-Plex, Cool Cat, etc... into a Fender Twin)

... when playing a fairly lush say Rhythm part and I need to switch to a more gritty distorted part, will the lush Rhythm part still echo out while I have switched patches to the gritty distorted part or will it cut off?

 

No, unfortunately, when you switch *programs* on the LE, the previous settings (and audio) are "flushed," and the new program loads. This is true of many mfx, not just the ToneLab and the Pod. What you're asking it to do is maintain two separate audio paths during your program change and until you strike the next guitar note. In this setup, the system doesn't "hold over" audio (your previously ringing lush chord) between program changes and your newly attacked note (which occurs after the change). Some mfx do feature a "spillover" feature, but it's limited to the delay and reverb.

However, in "stompbox" mode, you can set up a single patch so that you can selectively turn on the Pedal Effect or Amp/Cab sim. for your distortion sound, and you'll get the continuous ring-out from the modulation, delay, and reverb sections. You just can't switch "programs" -- but within a program you have plenty of front-end distortion options that won't cut off the mod, delay, and reverb sections further down the line (just like your individual pedals). Of course, you'd have to switch off the mod effects, too, but you have to do this anyway with an individual pedal setup.

But I can see why you would ask this question, based on your setup.

Because you're used to using multiple pedals, this "cut-off tail syndrome" is never an issue. For example, switching on/off your distortion pedal (or changing modes if you have a dual-mode distortion pedal) in an analog setup doesn't affect the other pedals (modulation, delay, reverb, etc.) down the line. The last struck sound keeps swirling and echoing even after you change the distortion (which is before the mod effects). This is the same behavior you'll get from the any mfx in "stompbox" mode.

So what you're asking makes sense, it's just the nature of some mfx pedals that they don't perform this way -- at least in their "program" (vs. "stompbox") modes. On some mfx (the ToneLab included), you can "preview" the next sound by moving throught banks without the sound changing, but this is not the same thing. Once you hit that new *program* button, there's an instant cut-off.

[Fooll]

 

Originally Posted by Jon Chappell

No, the ToneLab LE can't make your 6 sound like a 12. That would be a job for the Line 6 Variax, the Roland VG Strat, VG-88, or other guitar-modeling system. The ToneLab does have an acoustic modeler in the Pedal Effects section, but it's an effect -- simulating acoustic response using EQ and, presumably, phasing. (I'm guessing here, because the manual doesn't state how the effect works, but that's how these devices usually operate.)

 

Thanks Jon....

I recently saw Beatlemania and the George character played the Country Gent threw out the early set. He had a 12 string effect and I could only see that he was useing what looked like the Tonelab SE. So much for easy way out...LOL

[Jon Chappell]

 

Originally Posted by Fooll

Thanks Jon....

I recently saw Beatlemania and the George character played the Country Gent threw out the early set. He had a 12 string effect and I could only see that he was useing what looked like the Tonelab SE. So much for easy way out...LOL

 

Well, now you've got my curiosity up. For example, in any show with well-funded production values, especially Beatlemania, if the situation calls for a 12-string, I would think the music director would insist on a modeled 12-string at the very least -- even if the guitarist is playing a 6-string. So I'm wondering what that effect was. You can simulate a 12-string with chorus and a touch of delay, but I'm not sure that would be enough for such exacting circumstances. And of course, we're not sure it was a ToneLab, right?

When I go to shows, I often try to sneak down to the stage at intermission or curtain call to see the setup. Barring that, you can bring binoculars and zoom in on the gear (this is sometimes more effective from the mezzanine or balcony where you can look down on all the floor effects).

If you know of a friend going to the show, ask him to do some reconn for you. And then let us know!

[Fooll]

 

Originally Posted by Jon Chappell

Well, now you've got my curiosity up. For example, in any show with well-funded production values, especially Beatlemania, if the situation calls for a 12-string, I would think the music director would insist on a modeled 12-string at the very least -- even if the guitarist is playing a 6-string. So I'm wondering what that effect was. You can simulate a 12-string with chorus and a touch of delay, but I'm not sure that would be enough for such exacting circumstances. And of course, we're not sure it was a ToneLab, right?

When I go to shows, I often try to sneak down to the stage at intermission or curtain call to see the setup. Barring that, you can bring binoculars and zoom in on the gear (this is sometimes more effective from the mezzanine or balcony where you can look down on all the floor effects).

If you know of a friend going to the show, ask him to do some reconn for you. And then let us know!

 

It was defently a Vox Tone Lab. I was right on the stage but George was on the other side about 20' away. When he went into Hard Day's Night that's what he stomped. I'll be seeing another band the 18th. 1964 The Tribute so I'll beable to discuss some stage tricks. But 1964 uses the 12 string in their sets. If I get any info I'll pass it along........

[GCDEF]

I remember playing with an octave up effect on the SE that came somewhat close to simulating a 12 string. It put the octave on the first two strings too, so it wasn't perfect.

[Jon Chappell]

 

Originally Posted by GCDEF

I remember playing with an octave up effect on the SE that came somewhat close to simulating a 12 string. It put the octave on the first two strings too, so it wasn't perfect.

 

The LE and SE's Octavers provide only lower octaves (one or two octaves below, each with adjustable level), so this is not an option. In fact, the wording is identical in the SE and LE manuals.

You might be thinking of the pitch shifter, but the problem with those and octavers (the ones that do offer a higher octave), is that they're fine for single notes, but sound less than ideal when two or more notes are played. So it's not just that chords sound bad; having two strings ring together also "confuses" the sound, creating unmusical artifacts. And for the opening chord to "Hard Day's Night"? Fugheddaboutit.

The octave doubling of the upper strings (which is undesirable in a 12-string, but unavoidable with a pitch-shifter effect applied) is the deal-killer for me, as this is what most 12-string parts seem to feature. (Think of all those Roger McGuinn licks.) The LE's pitch shifter here sounds pretty warbly.

[onemanguitarban]

First of all....thanks everyone for all of the useful info.

I held off getting a ToneLab SE for years because I wanted a digital out. When the LE version came out, I was quite sure I was going to get one, assuming the reviews were positive. This forum affirmed that for me, before most stores even carried the product. Since I couldn't try one out in the store, I had to rely on the feedback of others before ordering one (I NEVER buy gear sight unseen, but I had to make an exception for this one).

So I ordered one just over a month ago. I'm, sure I'll have more questions and hopefully I'll be able to add some insight into the product when I get a chance to get familiar with it.

Regarding the 12 string effect. The only product I'm aware of that really does an outstanding job of this with any guitar is the POG from Electro-Harmonix.

It is expensive....but it really does work and is the only thing I'd personally use to "replace" a 12 string.

[GCDEF]

 

Originally Posted by Jon Chappell

The LE and SE's Octavers provide only lower octaves (one or two octaves below, each with adjustable level), so this is not an option. In fact, the wording is identical in the SE and LE manuals.

You might be thinking of the pitch shifter, but the problem with those and octavers (the ones that do offer a higher octave), is that they're fine for single notes, but sound less than ideal when two or more notes are played. So it's not just that chords sound bad; having two strings ring together also "confuses" the sound, creating unmusical artifacts. And for the opening chord to "Hard Day's Night"? Fugheddaboutit.

The octave doubling of the upper strings (which is undesirable in a 12-string, but unavoidable with a pitch-shifter effect applied) is the deal-killer for me, as this is what most 12-string parts seem to feature. (Think of all those Roger McGuinn licks.) The LE's pitch shifter here sounds pretty warbly.

 

It's been a while. It could have been the pitch shifter, I really don't remember for sure. Whatever it was, it was kind of fun and sort of passable if you didn't listen too closely.

[Jon Chappell]

 

Originally Posted by onemanguitarban

First of all....thanks everyone for all of the useful info.

I held off getting a ToneLab SE for years because I wanted a digital out. When the LE version came out, I was quite sure I was going to get one, assuming the reviews were positive. This forum affirmed that for me, before most stores even carried the product. Since I couldn't try one out in the store, I had to rely on the feedback of others before ordering one (I NEVER buy gear sight unseen, but I had to make an exception for this one).

So I ordered one just over a month ago. I'm, sure I'll have more questions and hopefully I'll be able to add some insight into the product when I get a chance to get familiar with it.

Regarding the 12 string effect. The only product I'm aware of that really does an outstanding job of this with any guitar is the POG from Electro-Harmonix.

It is expensive....but it really does work and is the only thing I'd personally use to "replace" a 12 string.

 

The E-H POG does sound pretty good (my reservation about the octave-raised 1st and 2nd strings notwithstanding). There are soundclips (and more info) here: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...30&src=3WFRWXX. Check out #2, "1 Octave Up": The stability in the chord playing is impressive. (Listen to the ring-out on the final D chord.)

I like how in the blurb they say, "Works on chords!" It's the second sentence, and it's true. For me, that's an important, unique feature of the unit.

[Otherness]

JC

Thanks for the insightful reply. I assumed what you had told me, but was unsure, and my in-store tests have been plagued by multiple loud sounds coming from various places in the "multi-store" so I could not hear a lot of the changes between sounds. I am still very interested in the TLLE, and possibly incorporating my pedal setup into it, but I am curious now, does the GT-8 allow for the sound over patch changes with its dual COSM deal? Our other guitarist had a GT-5 way back when and I wasnt to impressed, but...

Thanks!

[Jon Chappell]

 

Originally Posted by Otherness

... but I am curious now, does the GT-8 allow for the sound over patch changes with its dual COSM deal?

 

Yes, it does ... to a point. I don't have a GT-8 handy, but I checked the owners' manual, and here's what I found on p. 71:

Keeping Effect Sounds Playing After Patches Are Switched (Patch Change Mode)

The GT-8 features a mode that is enabled when spatial effects (such as reverb and delay) are used, whereby the effects sound of one patch continues playing even after you switch to the next patch. If the necessary conditions regarding the effects chain and effect parameter settings are met, you can then have the decay of reverb, delay, and similar effects continue on into the next patch after you switch patches.

With certain limitations, you can change patches in some mfx units while the sound continues over the patch change. Here, they don't mention modulation effects (chorus, flanger, etc.), saying only "decay of reverb, delay, and similar effects," and you originally cited "lush" as one of your "conditions," so I'd tread carefully here. Still, the GT-8 is to be commended for this feature.

[Dragonsoni]

I am currently upgrading my equipment.

I have a Gibson Les Paul 58' Reissue and a Fender Stratocaster 62' Reissue.

I recently purchased a Marshall 1962 Bluesbreaker Combo which I will run clean with pedals.

The plan is to still be able to hear the Gibson and Fender guitar tones.

My tone snob friends say I should get the following : Fulltone OCD, Boss DD-6 (to get by) and a Boss Tuner.

For the cost of those three I am at the level of a Tonelab LE.

Basically, do the guitars signature sounds come out of a Tonelab LE or am I just ruining/neutering my Gibson/Fender/Marshall combination and should stick with single pedals?

[Jon Chappell]

 

Originally Posted by Dragonsoni

I am currently upgrading my equipment.

I have a Gibson Les Paul 58' Reissue and a Fender Stratocaster 62' Reissue.

I recently purchased a Marshall 1962 Bluesbreaker Combo which I will run clean with pedals.

The plan is to still be able to hear the Gibson and Fender guitar tones.

My tone snob friends say I should get the following : Fulltone OCD, Boss DD-6 (to get by) and a Boss Tuner.

For the cost of those three I am at the level of a Tonelab LE.

Basically, do the guitars signature sounds come out of a Tonelab LE or am I just ruining/neutering my Gibson/Fender/Marshall combination and should stick with single pedals?

 

You have a nice arsenal, and it's obvious you care about tone. So certainly the OCD/DD-6 setup (the tuner is negligible here, except for the price factor) is a very "low impact" way to shape the tone of the guitar and amp.

But it strikes me as an apples & oranges comparison. A multi-fx is not for someone who can get by with a delay and an overdrive. If you don't need five or six different distortion settings at the press of a button, if you don't need complex modulation sounds, if you don't need a volume/wah pedal, if you don't need programmable patch changes, then you don't need to consider any mfx -- ToneLab or otherwise.

Try this: go through your set list, or your favorite songs that you're likely to play at a jam session or with your band. If you can make adjustments to just a couple of stompboxes on the fly, then you're probably not a candidate for a mfx. But if you play a lot of diverse music (weddings, house band, theater/pit guitarist, teacher, hired gun), and if versatile tone options are as important (if not more) than purity, you're definitely looking at a mfx. (Sometimes the audience or client is more impressed by being able to switch sounds on a time than they are with just tone.)

Now, for the more probing question: "Will the ToneLab 'ruin' your sound?" No more than any other effect, no less. Some people argue that analog is a "purer" way to modify your guitar signal than digital, but that's just superstition; we do digital conversions all the time, and no one seems to complain then (mp3's, CDs, DVDs, computer-based recording). If you want more of the pure guitar sound to shine through, don't dial in the effects so heavily. But you choose an effect -- let's say it's a distortion pedal -- based on its quality. You opt for a Keely or a Fulltone or a vintage Ibanez because you prefer one over the others, for your sound, not for any issues of purity.

But back to your specific situation. Your point about the price is a good one, but the actual usage of the effects setup that you propose applies to two entirely different scenarios. So decide if you're a stripped-down, stompbox-as-needed guy, or a mfx user. If you decide you need a mfx, consider the ToneLab, along with others of its class.