Line 6 "Dream Rig" (Tyler Variax, POD HD500, DT25 amp)

[sinatra]

Thanks a lot, Anderton. Your answer has been soooooo helpful and clarifying.

It seems to me that the Variax is a very versatile guitar.

When you use the Gibson Firebird X, what do you prefer it for (over the Variax)?

(Can it compete with the Variax and podHD500 in the imitation of "classic " or "recognizable" sounds?)

And does the people in the Gibson Firebird X owners' forum share presets of sounds from records or invented by them, as much as they do in the line 6 forums?

Thanks again for your excellent work.

[sinatra]

And thanks Dramey for your contribution, too.

[Anderton]

 

Originally Posted by dramey

The alt turnings don't sound bad at all. I wouldn't record with with them, but they are quite usable.

 

I think it depends on how far the tuning deviates from standard, and the context. I used several alternate tunings in earlier audio examples and no one noticed. Something like the Nashville tuning sounds obviously "different" in isolation, but when layered with another guitar in standard tuning (the usual application), it's a different story. Also, to my ears the octave higher Nashville tuning sounded more authentic with the acoustic models than the electrics, which is the opposite of what I would have expected.

[Anderton]

 

Originally Posted by sinatra

Thanks a lot, Anderton. Your answer has been soooooo helpful and clarifying.

It seems to me that the Variax is a very versatile guitar.

When you use the Gibson Firebird X, what do you prefer it for (over the Variax)?

 

What I prefer with the FBX over any guitar is the hex output capability that allows processing each string independently within a DAW or more particularly, for live performance. My live performance rig uses a laptop with amp sims on each string, so I use octaves on the bottom three, chorusing on the top four, and a separate feed for all strings that I process for lead sounds. As I play with a thumb pick, I can articulate bass lines on the lower strings and play both rhythm and lead against them. Although other guitars have hex outs, the FBX uses some kind of unusual phase mojo that gives excellent separation.

The Variax does hex processing to create its models, but the six strings are not available independently to the end user. I will say that having logged many, many hours trying to tame hex piezo pickups, Line 6 has done an amazing job of removing the "piezoness" from the sound. Unless you've tried to do it, it's hard to explain how incredibly difficult it is to pull that off, and how well Line 6 has done it.

 

Can it compete with the Variax and podHD500 in the imitation of "classic " or "recognizable" sounds?)

 

The sound design effort concentrated on sounds that included amps and effects. IOW, where the Variax focuses like a laser on guitar tones, the FBX was oriented toward getting a Metallica sound, a Police sound, a Van Halen sound, a vintage slapback Sun studios sound, etc. I think the guitar sounds that ARE there (Tele, Strat, and Les Paul) are good emulations of classic sounds, but the Variax offers a much wider variety. Also don't forget that Line 6 has been tweaking the Variax sounds for years, so they're very mature. The FBX is still very much virgin territory, so it's difficult to anticipate the direction in which users will want to take it in the years ahead.

 

And do the people in the Gibson Firebird X owners' forum share presets of sounds from records or invented by them, as much as they do in the line 6 forums?

 

No. The Line 6 Custom Tone exchange program is extremely active and there are a ton of patches. Designing patches for the FBX is a relatively daunting task; there are currently 20 patches posted, and I did 17 of them. I think they're pretty cool, of course

 

Thanks again for your excellent work.

 

You're very welcome. I think that with my answers, you can see why I consider the FBX and Variax to be very different instruments. Your needs will help you make the choice. If hex processing is an important part of your life, I have yet to find anything better than the FBX. If you want a wide variety of excellent modeled sounds, the Variax hits a bulls-eye, and uses very mature technology.

A propos of the Variax's maturity, I'm STILL blown away that I could update the Variax 500 and get the same basic sounds as the JTV.

[franklawrence]

Craig,

Your comment about the variax 500 caught my attention. I thought the new JT variax models used new, super duper computer processing that the old versions don't have. So I'm left wondering, what do the new models sound like on an old 500? I have $400 that I could spend on a used 500, but not the extra grand for a JT model. Can you demo the new models on an old 500???

[KindredDuo]

Hello Craig (and everyone). This is a great thread! I'm also interested in the update capabilities of older Variax models. I have an older Variax Acoustic which I love, but it is beginning to "forget" its alternate tunings and I'm unable to make it remember any new ones. Hoping an update would help fix this? I just downloaded the Monkey, but didn't really know what I should be updating with this, or how to connect the guitar to the computer. Please forgive me if this is off topic. Hoping this is the correct place to post this.

[James Clausen]

After reading the thread yesterday, I remembered to update my Variax 500. Wow!

[Anderton]

 

Originally Posted by franklawrence

Craig,

Your comment about the variax 500 caught my attention. I thought the new JT variax models used new, super duper computer processing that the old versions don't have.

 

I don't know about the inside technology, just that the sounds certainly seem the same. However, remember that the JTV brings the alternate tunings out to the front of the guitar and makes them available instantly. Before, the only way to do alternate tunings was to create them in Variax Workbench, then transfer them over to the guitar. I could easily speculate that this upgrade to the alternate tuning capabilities would require faster and better processing.

 

So I'm left wondering, what do the new models sound like on an old 500? I have $400 that I could spend on a used 500, but not the extra grand for a JT model. Can you demo the new models on an old 500???

 

If you want to hear what the models sound like, listen to the JTV ones. I'm really not hearing any difference in the sound.

But while a Variax 500 can sound like a JTV (thanks, Line 6!), it neither plays nor looks like one. I don't want to sound like a broken record (or skipping CD), but the JTV-59 sitting here looks really fabulous--the tobacco sunburst finish is simply gorgeous, and the quality and playability of the guitar is definitely way ahead of the original Variax. There are also other improvements, like better tuners, real magnetic pickups you can add to the sound (and also let you play the JTV without power), a vastly superior way of handling battery power, etc.

So, the bottom line is it's really extremely cool and considerate that you can bring an old Variax up to spec. That still kinda blows my mind. But, there's also no question that the latest Variax guitars have evolved considerably compared to the first generation.

[Anderton]

Given how much interest there is in the Variax, I'm almost starting to think the DT25 needs a separate thread

As an amp, it's just as mind-boggling in its own way. I'll keep fielding Variax questions, of course, but I think it's overdue to get into the DT25. Besides, I want an excuse to play through it more!!

[Anderton]

 

Originally Posted by KindredDuo

Hello Craig (and everyone). This is a great thread! I'm also interested in the update capabilities of older Variax models. I have an older Variax Acoustic which I love, but it is beginning to "forget" its alternate tunings and I'm unable to make it remember any new ones. Hoping an update would help fix this? I just downloaded the Monkey, but didn't really know what I should be updating with this, or how to connect the guitar to the computer. Please forgive me if this is off topic. Hoping this is the correct place to post this.

 

I'm not familiar with the older Variax acoustic. I presume the guitar connects the same way the electric one does - through the USB "hockey puck" interface. But this is out of my league, so you might want to head on over to the Line 6 forums and get advice there, unless somone can bop in here quickly and tell you what to do.

[metfoo]

Each piece should be reviewed individually. Once they are all done, then they actual dream rig as a whole should be reviewed.

[Anderton]

 

Originally Posted by metfoo

Each piece should be reviewed individually. Once they are all done, then they actual dream rig as a whole should be reviewed.

 

I thought about separate threads but realized it would be a nightmare...if I was talking about using the Variax with the POD HD500, would it go into the HD500 or Variax thread? And it would complicate matters for people to jump back and forth between threads. So, I think the best plan is to just move ahead to the DT25 if no one has any more pressing questions on the Variax, although if Variax questions do pop up, I'll field them. I'll finish up the few remaining Variax features this week, and Monday, start in on the DT25. Make sense?

[dramey]

I'm just about ready to pull the trigger on the DT25. I've been holding off for your review, but I already know you like it, and patience was never my favorite virtue...

[Henryswansen]

You really won't regret it, Dramey. I have had mine a couple of weeks now but have only been able to play it a handful of times. Once at full volume, twice in LVM. Every time I switch it on, I just love the sound that comes out. I'm running it through the HD500 and haven't tweaked any patches fully yet. Small children tend to limit time. I'm no great player and certainly not in the league of most of you all, but I am enjoying getting some great sounds out of the set up.

Champing at the bit for the DT25 section to begin.

[lindsayward]

Hi there. Thanks for this review. I'm looking forward to the DT25 section as I have a JTV59 (tobacco sunburst too - nice and a POD HD500.

I saw the post about updating the older Variaxes to use the newer models and was about to write in that you can't, but thought I'd better check first. So I ran Monkey (1.56) and connected to the Variax 600 via the HD500 and it does NOT show any updates available. I have version 3.10 for the Variax and that shows as the current version.

If anyone can prove otherwise, please let us know how you can update an older Variax. I was always under the impression the newer JTV firmware wouldn't apply to the older guitars, and it seems that is the case.

[Anderton]

 

Originally Posted by lindsayward

Hi there. Thanks for this review. I'm looking forward to the DT25 section as I have a JTV59 (tobacco sunburst too - nice and a POD HD500.

I saw the post about updating the older Variaxes to use the newer models and was about to write in that you can't, but thought I'd better check first. So I ran Monkey (1.56) and connected to the Variax 600 via the HD500 and it does NOT show any updates available. I have version 3.10 for the Variax and that shows as the current version.

If anyone can prove otherwise, please let us know how you can update an older Variax. I was always under the impression the newer JTV firmware wouldn't apply to the older guitars, and it seems that is the case.

 

Well, here's what happened. I missed the last update to the 500, so I was still running REALLY old software. The reason I checked out the older Variax was because I wanted to see if the sounds had changed between the original and the JTV. The 500 sounds I played sounded inferior to the JTV, so I was going to record them and do a "compare and contrast" audio example. When I plugged in I ran the Monkey for kicks to see if there were any updates to other elements of the system, and it told me updates were available for the Variax.

So, I updated and the sound seemed considerably better (apparently James Clausen in post #182 had a similar updating experience). The models sound extremely close to the JTV, if not identical.

Now of course, I would assume that firmware for the JTV would be different overall because of the way alternate tunings are handled, the different procedure for storing custom patches, dealing with the 3-way switch on the -59, and maybe even the battery management too. But as to the sound of the models themselves, the "updated" (well updated to 2006, LOL) Variax 500 sounds remarkably similar to the models in the JTV.

Maybe someone from Line 6 could chime in with whether I'm hearing things or whether the last firmware update to the older Variaxes do have really similar models to the JTV. It would make sense, in a way; once something sounds like a Strat, well, it sounds like a Strat.

Lindsayward, if you get a chance to play a JTV side-by-side with your 600, I'd be interested to hear what you think the differences are, if any.

This is why I like pro reviews...if I get overly excited because the Variax 500 sounds so much better and didn't catch the update's date, someone here will bring me back to earth But still, this doesn't really diminish my opinion that Line 6 is very good about updating in general. Monkey found my Variax, managed to tell me there were updates, and the updates were on the site. Not bad for a high-tech product from 10 years ago, given that there was an update about 4 years after its introduction. No wonder I missed it.

[lindsayward]

I bought my Variax 600 in 2007 and updated it straight away (3.10 firmware). There has been no update since.

As far as I know the only updated models in the JTV are the acoustic guitars (version 1.7x/1.8x).

I love the electric sounds on both of them.

I can listen to them side-by-side, but unfortunately my 600 has an odd problem where the VDI input results in a reduced signal and nearly no volume control. (If anyone knows a way to fix this, that would be great!)

I could A/B them with the regular 1/4" input I guess.

[Anderton]

 

Originally Posted by lindsayward

I bought my Variax 600 in 2007 and updated it straight away (3.10 firmware). There has been no update since.

As far as I know the only updated models in the JTV are the acoustic guitars (version 1.7x/1.8x).

I love the electric sounds on both of them.

I can listen to them side-by-side, but unfortunately my 600 has an odd problem where the VDI input results in a reduced signal and nearly no volume control. (If anyone knows a way to fix this, that would be great!)

I could A/B them with the regular 1/4" input I guess.

 

I was an early adopter...got the 500 around 2002, even before it was called a Variax 500. It was only called a 500 after the 700 came out IIRC. I don't think it ever occurred to me that there would be an update almost four years later (last update for original Variaxes was released in 2006.

So I guess my lesson is...check for updates, no matter how old a piece of gear is!! Thanks for helping to clarify this.

[3shiftgtr]

 

Originally Posted by Anderton

I think it's overdue to get into the DT25.

 

C.A. baby, we're chompin at the bit here.....

[James Clausen]

I agree with Craig. I had not updated the sounds in my 500 since I got it. The new tones are much more resonant and defined. I don't have a Tyler Variax to compare them to but the improved tones are very noticable.

[jbreher]

 

Originally Posted by dramey

I don't know about the other 2 models, but the 59 is the heaviest guitar I have ever owned. It really my only gripe.

 

Interesting. The 59 I played would have tipped the scales as among the lighter Les Pauls I ever played.

[jbreher]

OK, I've owned my -69 for a little over a month now. Long story short, I am quite happy that I bought it.

It has fulfilled my intent of getting a large chunk of my life back, in terms of time. Each gig used to require transporting, setting up, tuning, cleaning, and putting away about a half-dozen guitars. Now I take the -69, and a spare in case of string breakage (which I have yet to need). Saves me about half-hour each gig in setup and teardown, and triples my free time on breaks between sets from five to fifteen minutes, due to not having to tune a bunch of instruments. And noticeably reduces 'dead air' between tunes that used to be where a guitar change occurred. And reduces the potential for theft or damage of my other guitars - some of which I consider irreplaceable.

An unanticipated side effect: One of the venues we play has a severe EMI issue - such that single-coils are barely tolerable even when using an EHX Hum Debugger (in itself quite a marvelous invention). Strats, Teles, P-90s, all have a problem. But here is the thing that is not immediately obvious: using the modeled single coils in the Variax, all this hum and buzz immediately disappears. I assume that is because the analog source is the piezos, which are immune to EMI. Hooray!

An area I would like to see Line 6 address: When switching the 'pickup selector' switch, the output seems to instantly drop a good 6dB or so, compared to the instant before the switch occurs. Hitting a new note restores the volume. It is almost as if the attack of the subsequent note is required to trigger an internal calibration of the analog level or some such. As I do a lot of playing as the only guitar player / melodic-harmonic instrument in a cover trio, I frequently need to switch tones a quarter or eighth note before another section of a song. Having all the harmonic content seeming disappear for that interval is quite jarring.

Anyone else experience this?

[Anderton]

 

Originally Posted by jbreher

An unanticipated side effect: One of the venues we play has a severe EMI issue - such that single-coils are barely tolerable even when using an EHX Hum Debugger (in itself quite a marvelous invention). Strats, Teles, P-90s, all have a problem. But here is the thing that is not immediately obvious: using the modeled single coils in the Variax, all this hum and buzz immediately disappears. I assume that is because the analog source is the piezos, which are immune to EMI. Hooray!

 

Excellent point! Yes, piezos do not pick up hum. They can't.

 

An area I would like to see Line 6 address: When switching the 'pickup selector' switch, the output seems to instantly drop a good 6dB or so, compared to the instant before the switch occurs. Hitting a new note restores the volume. It is almost as if the attack of the subsequent note is required to trigger an internal calibration of the analog level or some such. As I do a lot of playing as the only guitar player / melodic-harmonic instrument in a cover trio, I frequently need to switch tones a quarter or eighth note before another section of a song. Having all the harmonic content seeming disappear for that interval is quite jarring.

Anyone else experience this?

 

No, and just to make sure, I plugged the JTV-59 into the DT25, turned the volume up full, but didn't play any notes so all I heard was the residual hiss (FYI the DT25 is a remarkably quiet amp). I flicked the pickup switch on the Spank and Lester settings...no issues. Then I thought maybe it was a question of loading more complex models, so I tried the same thing on the Reso bank--again no problem.

What sounds are using, what are you feeding into, and is your battery fully charged?

[Anderton]

Time for the DT25. Again, let me emphasize the floor is still open for Variax questions and comments, but I'd like to turn my attention to the DT25. After the photo tour, you'll hear some recorded examples that should make it pretty clear why I like this amp so much.

Here's the front of the cab. As far as I can tell the grille cloth is not removable, but it may just be that I was reluctant to pry at it out of concern for causing damage. Behind the grille is a Celestion G12H-90 8-ohm, 12" speaker (designed in UK, made in China).

Let's take a look at the back; here's the left side of the rear panel.

The IEC line cord connector is to the far left. Note that these amps are not global; they're either 120 or 240V. However, I noticed that there's a label telling you what type of fuse to use depending on whether the amp is in a 120V or 240V environment. What this implies to me is that the transformer may be tapped so it can be configured for one or the other voltage, however, I haven't taken the amp apart to verify whether this is true of not. Maybe someone from Line 6 could chime in and let us know. Or maybe I'll just grab a screwdriver...

To the right is a "low power" mode switch. This lets you get your tone at lower levels, which is something I suspect I'll need to try out if I'm recording audio examples late at night!

Further right, we hit the I/O - MIDI in and out for accepting footswitches and such, and then the infamous L6 Link which I'm itching to try out - the idea of having digital control between the HD 500 and DT25 is interesting to say the least. If you want a homework assignment, you can download a copy of the DT25 manual and a separate document on L6 Link connectivity.

Next is a footswitch jack. You can use a single-button footswitch to switch between the A and B channels or a dual-button type to do channel switching with one and reverb on/off with the other.

The effects loop is between the preamp and power amp, but unlike many effects loops, although you can plug into the send to take a parallel output this disconnects the signal from the power amp. You can, however, feed a signal into the power amp by plugging into the Return jack.

Here's the right side of the rear panel.

There's a cabinet emulated direct out (I think Line 6 knows a thing or two about cabinet emulation) with a ground lift switch. As to speaker outputs, there are three options (A = 4-ohm output, B = 8-ohm output, and C = 16-ohm output). The A output accepts a 4-ohm speaker or two 8-ohm speakers, B accepts an 8-ohm speaker or two 16-ohm speakers, and C accepts a single 16-ohm. You can't use more than one output at a time, and you must turn on the amp with a speaker connected to prevent potential damage to the output stage.

The amp comes with a convenient "cheat sheet" with some representative settings.

As much as I just like to dive in, I tried these out. They all sound fine, but what's really interesting is when you start changing modes and topologies...the sounds change dramatically, as you'll hear in the audio examples.

And finally, here's where the rubber meets the road: the two channels of controls.

One thing that's not obvious from the photo is that the knob labels (bass, treble, etc.) are illuminated - you can play in the dark and still adjust the controls. There's the input on the left and channel A/B switch; the two channels are identical with Drive, Bass, Mid, Treble, Presence, Reverb, and Volume. There's also a Master volume that affects both channels.

But the real action here are the three toggle switches. Two make relatively subtle, but nonetheless useful, variations. The Triode/Pentode switch gives a more "raw" sound in the Triode position (or a smoother, bigger sound in the Pentode position, depending on your outlook), while the Class AB/Class A switch chooses the two operational modes where you trade off tone (Class A, 10W with cathode biasing) for efficiency (Class AB. 25W with fixed bias).

The enigmatic I - II - III - IV Voicing switch has the most impact by far, and this is a large part of what allows the DT25 to have so many convincing amp characters. I'm going to do something I hate to do, which is cut and paste from the manual, but the Line 6 explanation is very clear and gets the point across.

[The Voicing] switch switch determines the flavor of the currently selected channel’s preamp and tone stack, as well as the Negative Feedback Loop topology (NFL). NFL has a big impact on tonal characteristics and the overall “feel” of the amp. Flip the switch up or down to toggle through settings I through IV. With a single switch your tone can go from clean to mean. Each voicing is distinct:

I – Puts the NFL in its tightest setting while configuring the Channel Control’s behavior reminiscent of the great American “Blackface” amps of the 60s.

II – Sets the NFL topology to be a little looser than I while the Channel Control settings are capable of dialing in echoes of classic British amps.

III – This is the Zero Negative Feedback Loop setting which produces a very “open” or “dynamic” feeling amp. In this setting, the Channel Controls are configured for versatility with a distinct “chime-y” quality.

IV – Setting IV brings the NFL back in and adds a low frequency resonance that pairs quite well with high gain voicing applied to the Channel Controls.

Now that you have a basic idea of the "lay of the land" with the amp, let's get into some audio. As I don't have a Royer ribbon mic here for recording amps (which would pretty much be my first choice), I'll use a good ol' Shure SM58 dynamic mic. I'll use the JTV-59 magnetic pickups as much as possible so we have a consistent standard of comparison, with occasional departures into the modeled guitars because the pairing of particular guitar sounds with particular amps (e.g., Les Paul and Marshall, Rickenbacker and AC-30) produce some really cool sounds.

[jbreher]

 

Originally Posted by Anderton

No, and just to make sure, I plugged the JTV-59 into the DT25, turned the volume up full, but didn't play any notes so all I heard was the residual hiss (FYI the DT25 is a remarkably quiet amp). I flicked the pickup switch on the Spank and Lester settings...no issues.

What sounds are using, what are you feeding into, and is your battery fully charged?

 

See attachment. I am using the Spank model, but they all seem to exhibit this. Starting at the bridge position, I am hitting a chord, holding for two beats, moving the pu selector to the next position, holding for two beats, striking the chord, hold, next position.... one position at a time all the way from bridge to neck, then back again.

You can clearly hear that there is a distinct drop in level upon flicking the switch. The next strike of the chord seems to be back to the earlier volume. Opening the file in an editor really drives it home, however. You can distinctly see the huge drop in volume.

[ATTACH]346212[/ATTACH]

ETA: This file was created direct into my tc KonnektLive. The same issue occurs with my regular live rig of guitar -> Samson Airline Wireless -> Boss GT-5 -> mid-'70's Fender silverface Princeton Reverb (slightly hopped up).

Battery chargemeter currently shows 3 of 4 LEDs lit. I'd say it should be good. Same problem with topped off battery, IIRC. I've not run it down to near-depletion.