Line 6 "Dream Rig" (Tyler Variax, POD HD500, DT25 amp)

[franklawrence]

On the 69 headstock question, to me it looks unfinished, and actually a lot like StewMac's blank peghead necks with the corners rounded off.

[metfoo]

I'd love to hear more on the DT25 and hd500

[Anderton]

 

Originally Posted by metfoo

I'd love to hear more on the DT25 and hd500

 

Absolutely. I'm going to wrap up audio examples for the JTV in the next day or two (I won't be doing ALL the models, that's a lot to expect people to listen to, but I'll choose the popular sounds that most people will recognize). From there I'll move along to the HD500 and DT25 - which I'm liking more and more the more I play through it.

Meanwhile, you can find out a lot about the HD500 from the review I wrote on it for Harmony Central when the product was first introduced. Everything I've said still holds, except there have been a couple updates that have actually improved it a bit.

[Downer]

I'd just like to add that the Roland GR55 has a modeling channel as well as two traditional synth channels. So you can get a number of different guitar tones and any tuning you want out of it. I've been pleased by the acoustic tones but then I rarely play real acoustics outside of work. (btw i used to work at GC arvada, small world)

[Mountjoy]

I was wondering what the standard magnetic pick-ups sound like (especially in the JTV-69, if anyone has one of those). I know this is not really the main point of the Variax, but one of the things that interests me is that on top of all the Variax goodness you are also getting a Tyler designed guitar, and the 'real' Tylers I have heard are awesome.

[Anderton]

 

Originally Posted by Mountjoy

I was wondering what the standard magnetic pick-ups sound like (especially in the JTV-69, if anyone has one of those). I know this is not really the main point of the Variax, but one of the things that interests me is that on top of all the Variax goodness you are also getting a Tyler designed guitar, and the 'real' Tylers I have heard are awesome.

 

Excellent point, I'll add that to the demo file I'm recording.

[digital1]

Great review so far, loving it. Would love to hear some of the tunings if possible

[Anderton]

 

Originally Posted by digital1

Great review so far, loving it. Would love to hear some of the tunings if possible

 

Actually, I used three alternate tunings in the examples in post #64. It's kind of tough to demo an alternate tuning, as using one just sounds like I'm a guitarist with incredible fingering skills

Probably the best way to demo the tunings would just be to select a tuning, then strum all six strings slowly so you can hear how they're tuned. Make sense?

I have time booked tonight for finishing up some of the audio examples, so I'll add that to the list.

[Line6]

 

Originally Posted by Anderton

Thanks for the reply, and welcome to the Pro Review! Although I don't expect you to reveal any proprietary techniques, this is clearly a pretty hip crowd, so if you have any insights into how you do the modeling process (particularly the acoustic guitars!), I'm sure people would find it interesting.

 

Hi Craig, thanks for your question above. Although this topic is pretty huge, one way to look at this would be the following: of the various technologies, tools, and techniques that we have developed to accurately model electric and acoustic guitars, I’ll focus in on one aspect that I find particularly interesting: sound resonance.

We have literally put years of research into studying sound resonance in guitars. For example, when you are talking about any guitar, electric or acoustic, you can think of it as a seesaw or teeter-totter where the strings are on one side, the body of the instrument is on the other, and the bridge is the fulcrum. The act of striking the string with your fingers or a pick creates a tremendous amount of energy that immediate begins transferring to the guitar’s body via the bridge in the form of harmonic resonance. What is happening here is that the body of the guitar is resonating and pulling out resonant frequencies from the string, and depending on the type of wood, its cut, its finish, its size/shape, any internal cavities, etc, certain frequencies transfer to the body faster than others. You can try this with any guitar; pluck an open A string and you will hear that over time, the sound will focus in on a single harmonic tone. That is the guitar body soaking up all the rest of the harmonics and balancing the string energy. This harmonic resonance between string and body is an important part of the character of any guitar. What is really exciting about acoustic guitars, for example, is how much the harmonic energy from the string is continually energizing the wood of the body over time - the body and the strings will even begin to resonate together and produce rich harmonic overtones.

Our job was to figure out which harmonics a given guitar is going to soak up and which harmonics it will leave on the string, over time, at the different notes and frequencies across the fretboard and string attack permutations. It gets even more complicated when you factor in the strings themselves, neck shape/size/composition, frets, nut, bridge, how the guitar is setup, pickups, electronics, and all the other aspects of the guitar that contribute to the instrument’s character. Not to mention the hand/body of a given guitar player, the space the guitar is being played in, and the hundreds of other environment variables that play a part here. You can only imagine where this could lead in the future. So understanding and delivering sound resonance is one important part of how we put under your fingers the unique character of what we consider to be some of the world’s greatest guitars.

[Blissful World]

Hi Line6: With the expanded CPU power allowing you to achieve greater realism for 12-string guitars, might you complete the Bluegrass Trifecta by adding a mandolin? That's acoustic guitar/banjo/mandolin. Then you would have the entire rock, folk, country, and bluegrass genres covered. Seems like that's the only major string instrument missing from the lineup . . .

[Anderton]

Hey Line 6 - thanks VERY much for the info on modeling, I'd never looked at it that way. That kind of "background info" is always welcome here, so I appreciate your taking the time to contribute to the thread.

[metfoo]

Do the traditional pickups work when using the Variax digital cable or do you need to switch to an analog cable for those?

[Anderton]

 

Originally Posted by metfoo

Do the traditional pickups work when using the Variax digital cable or do you need to switch to an analog cable for those?

 

Excellent question, as the answer indicates just how friggin' versatile this system is.

When using the Variax (VDI) cable with the HD500, if the HD500 input source is set to Variax, you can use either the magnetic pickups or a model depending on the Variax model switch setting (e.g., turn it on to use models, turn it off to use pickups). If you set the source to Variax Mags, it uses only the Variax magnetic pickups.

However, remember that there are two input paths. These can be set to the same input options, or different ones. For example, input 1 could be Variax (mags or models), while input 2 could be just the magnetic pickups. Or, in the end-of-the-world scenario I wondered about earlier with the Coral Sitar sitar model and an Electro-Harmonix Ravish Sitar, you could run the Variax 1/4" out into the Ravish Sitar, connect its output to the HD500 guitar input, and use that for input 1 while using the Variax sitar model for input 2 if you wanted to process the two signals differently through the HD500 (and we haven't even considered the options of using the HD500's FX Loop, which opens up a whole other set of options).

But if you wanted these two signals to go through the same processing, HD500 input 1 could be both the guitar input and the Variax.

I'm starting to think I will be able to save a lot of time during the course of this pro review by just answering any question with "yes" as that seems to be the most common answer

And I might add this system just get better the more I work with it. To make sure I answered your question correctly I had to set up the HD500...and promptly got sucked into playing with it. Well, it was research for the pro review, right? I promise I wasn't just sitting there playing and enjoying myself. Really.

[metfoo]

Great info. I'm a beginner with an hd500 and dt25. Considering a variax, but also want a les Paul. The variax seems to make more sense. I'm very interested in hearing the traditional pickups

[Anderton]

You asked for it, you got it

The file Variax, JTV-59 Mags is just the magnetic pickups, nothing else, straight into the interface. You'll hear neck pickup first, then the neck+bridge, and finally, the bridge.

I've also included some "optional listening for extra credit" files. While I had the pickup sounds recorded in Sonar, I decided to add some amp sims so you could get an idea of what the "naked" pickups would sound like going through amp sims. Why not go through the HD500? We'll have plenty of opportunities to hear the pickups through that.

The file Variax, POD Farm Super Sparkle is pretty much the raw sound of the POD Farm 2 Super Sparkle amp with a little ambience.

The file Variax, 21st Century uses the stock POD Farm 21st Century Clean preset with the reverb pulled back a bit.

Finally Variax, GR Van 51 goes through two of Guitar Rig 5's new modules, the Van 51 amp and Vintage Reverb, so you could hear some heavily distorted JTV-59 mag pickups.

I didn't really do any of my special tricks to the amp sims, they're pretty much "what you get is what you hear."

[Anderton]

 

Originally Posted by metfoo

Great info. I'm a beginner with an hd500 and dt25. Considering a variax, but also want a les Paul. The variax seems to make more sense. I'm very interested in hearing the traditional pickups

 

I'm curious what you think of the DT25. Got any comments?

[Henryswansen]

Just pulled the trigger on the dt25 and will be picking it up in the next day or two. I can't wait, however, my partner is also about to give birth. Decisions, decisions. Witness the birth of my child, or play with my new amp? What would you do?

Seriously though, I did play it briefly in the store and it sounded good, but to be honest, it was reading forum discussions that put me over the edge. I've never been happy with the tones I got just from my hd500. I liked them recorded, but my previous amp or subpar headphones just didn't cut it. I can't wait to create some new patches and see what the combination can do. I got the head and cab by the way. I'm looking forward to taking part in the future sections of this review in whatever way I can.

[metfoo]

 

Originally Posted by Anderton

I'm curious what you think of the DT25. Got any comments?

 

I've only been learning for about 6 months now, so i'm probably not the best person to follow in terms of advice. I'm very impressed with it. As a beginner, amps can be very confusing. Adding different models, classes and operation modes, makes an amp that much more complex. With that being said, I find this amp much easier to understand and operate than i did with the spider amp it replaced. Sonically, it sounds great. With the pod, its even easier to use. Press a button, and you've got a whole new sound. Switching amp models and classes though can be a bit loud. I wish line 6 would have included a cable for the l6 link though with either the amp or the pod. A longer speaker cable would have also been nice. I run it through an attenuator, so i ended up soldering a set on quick disconnects on it in place of the TRS plug.

[Anderton]

 

Originally Posted by metfoo

I've only been learning for about 6 months now, so i'm probably not the best person to follow in terms of advice.

 

Actually having a beginner's perspective is very valuable, particularly as you consider the DT25 easy to understand and operate. That means more than if those comments came from a rocket scientist amp veteran

 

I wish line 6 would have included a cable for the l6 link though with either the amp or the pod. A longer speaker cable would have also been nice. I run it through an attenuator, so i ended up soldering a set on quick disconnects on it in place of the TRS plug.

 

As to the Line 6 XLR cable, you can use a standard mic cable but a digital AES/EBU cable with XLR connectors will allow for a longer cable run. I'm not sure what the maximum length is for the digital cable, and from what I understand in either case it depends somewhat on the cable itself; there's some info on the Line 6 site about recommended cables, but maybe next time Line 6 drops into the thread, we can get the latest on recommended cables.

[Bookumdano2]

Uggh... another cool thing I have to buy. Random questions while I look through the threads more to check this thing out...

Can you do everything from software on the computer rather than punching knobs on the guitar itself to make the various changes in sounds, patches. tunings? For those of us in the studio rather than on a stage. No biggie but I am a little leery of the lifespan of the guitar's knobs/circuitry etc

No nylon string guitars? Maybe in the form of future firmware? Or are we talking about an entire different guitar to do that?

I like the demos so far... the original 12 string mp3s though are kinda "funny sounding"... I dunno what it is... when you're strumming chords, it sounds like... I dunno.. a strumming 6 string with "something" going on behind. It triggers the thought in my head "12 string", but there's something not quite right. I'll have to open up one of the 12 strings here to figure out what my gripe was.

The slower single note runs you played on the 12 string samples were dead on.

Resonator... can you play some really slow notes for reference on maybe a future mp3? I'd like more of a dobro sound, but I think that's not gonna be entirely possible since the strings would have to also be physically way up high to completely eliminate fret buzz.

As I understand it, you can set up any tuning you want.. right? If so, a tuning for 5 string banjo would be cool to set up and then try the patch.. er.. model, with fingerpicks... or does the guitar automatically switch into 5 string banjo tuning when you call that sound up?

I play banjo and the Variax sounds pretty good in demos ... even where the rolling fingerpicked 5 string technique isn't really being used. It would be cool to have a few mp3s with the Earl Scruggs approach. It would take a bit of mind trickery though.. I'd have to completely ignore the low E while pleying...as if it weren't even there.

The sitar sounds pretty darn nice.

I'd like a vibrato, so I guess the 69 is the one I'll go for. I have a few Les Pauls, sold my strat, so that I guess would be another reason to get the 69.

I don't want to use batteries. About how much is the ac adaptor? Guess I could look at Line 6's site.

[3shiftgtr]

Looking forward to the dt25 part of the review and how it interfaces with the hd500....considering this rig for a church gig.

Since you are probably in the process of messing with the gear, here's a few questions that I'm working on getting answered that others might have:

1) Combo vs head/cab config...how big the difference?

2) Has a low power option...which supposedly 'bypasses' the tube power...or something...a bit confused on that. So unless you are pushing the power section, it's basically a spider with the dt configuration?

3) What on the dt is exactly controllable by the hd? Can you choose a topology when writing a patch? Does that happen in the floor unit or the amp?

4) With multi efx, I like running time based stuff thru the loop and distortos and the rest on the front end. Do you still have to run the cables for the loops, or does signal pass thru the xlr link thing?

We play at stupidly low volumes, so I'm considering other low wattage options....hard to get features and low volumes and pricing...

[Anderton]

 

Originally Posted by Bookumdano2

Can you do everything from software on the computer rather than punching knobs on the guitar itself to make the various changes in sounds, patches. tunings? For those of us in the studio rather than on a stage. No biggie but I am a little leery of the lifespan of the guitar's knobs/circuitry etc.

 

You can do a lot more with the Variax Workbench software. There's a pro review of the original version. The new one is obviously better, but you'll get the idea.

 

No nylon string guitars? Maybe in the form of future firmware? Or are we talking about an entire different guitar to do that?

 

I would think different guitar, but you never know with these guys

 

I like the demos so far... the original 12 string mp3s though are kinda "funny sounding"... I dunno what it is... when you're strumming chords, it sounds like... I dunno.. a strumming 6 string with "something" going on behind. It triggers the thought in my head "12 string", but there's something not quite right. I'll have to open up one of the 12 strings here to figure out what my gripe was.

The slower single note runs you played on the 12 string samples were dead on.

 

I didn't mess with the Tone knob, which offers different "virtual mikings." They change the sound considerably, so I guess I need to do some more audio examples

 

Resonator... can you play some really slow notes for reference on maybe a future mp3? I'd like more of a dobro sound, but I think that's not gonna be entirely possible since the strings would have to also be physically way up high to completely eliminate fret buzz.

 

I'm about to raise the bridge just a teeny bit (I've already noted my thumbpick preference, which hits strings hard), so let's see what happens.

 

As I understand it, you can set up any tuning you want.. right?

 

I'll find out...I think the key phrase is "within reason."

 

Does the guitar automatically switch into 5 string banjo tuning when you call that sound up?

 

No, but you can associate tunings with models.

 

I play banjo and the Variax sounds pretty good in demos ... even where the rolling fingerpicked 5 string technique isn't really being used. It would be cool to have a few mp3s with the Earl Scruggs approach. It would take a bit of mind trickery though.. I'd have to completely ignore the low E while pleying...as if it weren't even there.

 

I am perhaps one of the world's worst choices to try and play an authentic-sounding banjo part, sorry.

 

The sitar sounds pretty darn nice.

 

Yes! And unlike the first Coral Sitars, it doesn't feed back uncontrollably if you turn the volume up above a whisper.

 

I'd like a vibrato, so I guess the 69 is the one I'll go for. I have a few Les Pauls, sold my strat, so that I guess would be another reason to get the 69.

 

Sometimes I wish they'd sent a 69 for review, but damn, the 59 sure plays like a dream and I like Les Pauls, so I'm happy doing the review with the 59.

 

I don't want to use batteries. About how much is the ac adaptor? Guess I could look at Line 6's site.

 

The battery is I believe Lithium Ion, is internal, and you remove it to charge it. It's not like the Variax runs on six D cells or something. I seem to be getting about 10 hours out of it with bursts of fairly sustained playing.

When using the Variax digital interface, then power is supplied through that.

[Henryswansen]

I really liked hearing the JTV using the magnetic pickups without any modelling. It seems that the claims that it's a nice sounding guitar without the modelling are true. Do you think you would ever play it without the guitar modelling, other that if the digital gear failed?

I know you are still dealing with the Variax for the time being, and even thought I won't be looking at getting one any time soon (budgetary, not because I don't want one) I am still finding it very interesting, but I am keen to get your take on the sounds straight through the DT25 compared to the same models through the HD500+DT25. There has been a LOT of spirited debate over whether the models sound the same from each.

Have they given you a head and cab or a combo to try out?

[Anderton]

 

Originally Posted by Henryswansen

I really liked hearing the JTV using the magnetic pickups without any modelling. It seems that the claims that it's a nice sounding guitar without the modelling are true. Do you think you would ever play it without the guitar modelling, other that if the digital gear failed?

 

Actually I've been using it quite a bit as a "straight" guitar. I was recording a test project in the Olympus LS-100 multitrack recorder and using only the pickups. Having them available means that for checking out high-Z inputs and such I don't have to reach for another guitar.

As to straight-head playing, the mag pickups are basically just another "model." When I want the JTV sound, then I use that instead of the Strat or whatever.

 

I know you are still dealing with the Variax for the time being, and even thought I won't be looking at getting one any time soon (budgetary, not because I don't want one) I am still finding it very interesting, but I am keen to get your take on the sounds straight through the DT25 compared to the same models through the HD500+DT25. There has been a LOT of spirited debate over whether the models sound the same from each.

 

I'm not quite sure I understand the question. Do you mean that if I call up, say, a Telecaster model on the Variax and play it through the DT25 it won't sound the same as it would through the DT25+HD500?

 

Have they given you a head and cab or a combo to try out?

 

It's the combo, which is the configuration that interests me most. One of the ways I'll be evaluating it is as backline for a studio...that "amp sitting in the corner" . Being able to provide the sound of multiple amps in a single amp is a big plus.

[metfoo]

 

Originally Posted by Anderton

Actually having a beginner's perspective is very valuable, particularly as you consider the DT25 easy to understand and operate. That means more than if those comments came from a rocket scientist amp veteran

As to the Line 6 XLR cable, you can use a standard mic cable but a digital AES/EBU cable with XLR connectors will allow for a longer cable run. I'm not sure what the maximum length is for the digital cable, and from what I understand in either case it depends somewhat on the cable itself; there's some info on the Line 6 site about recommended cables, but maybe next time Line 6 drops into the thread, we can get the latest on recommended cables.

 

Good points/

I did end up grabbing the recommended planet waves cable for the L6 link. I had read some of the issues others had, so I went with the known good.

Does the guitar come with the VDI cable and the USB cable?