Line 6 "Dream Rig" (Tyler Variax, POD HD500, DT25 amp)

[Henryswansen]

Originally Posted by Line6

Thanks for the above comment - this is a great topic! There are quite a few options for routing JTV acoustic sounds within the context of the Dream Rig. One suggestion would be to set the JTV for the acoustic sound you want, dial in the Blackface Dbl Vib Pre on the POD HD500 plus any additional compression/reverb effects as needed, and then set the DT25 for Class AB, Voicing III (zero negative feedback loop), Pentode configuration. As always with the DT25, experiment with various preamp/tonestack and power amp configurations to taste.

Another option that several hybrid (acoustic/electric) players use is this: use the HD500’s FX Loop send as a router/AB box to send the acoustic signal to the PA. A single preset could consist of the JTV’s magnetic pickups into a string of stompbox effects feeding an HD preamp into the DT25 power section, and then the JTV’s acoustic sounds into compression/reverb effects straight out the HD500’s FX Loop (at line or instrument level) to a DI. The A/B routing can be assigned to a switch on the HD500. Front of house guys like this approach because they have separate channels for acoustic and electric and they can treat those independently and appropriately for the acoustics of the venue.

Thanks for this detailed response. I knew that playing around with the rig would be the best way, but it's nice to know there are simple ways to set it up straight through the amp. I often read on other forums that FRFR is the only way to go, but if it sounds good through the DT-25' I'd prefer that. I do like the idea of a separate out and separate channel on the desk and that would take care of the FRFR.

Food for thought.

[John Bartus]

Here's how I do it -- I have the Tyler Variax 69 Strat-style, and it's an amazing guitar. I use the old footswitch-able direct box/power supply from my old Variaxes and run the 1/4" out to my Vox ToneLab LE and to my Fender Hot Rod Deluxe amp; the XLR out goes to the PA mixer. The trick is setting up your custom banks with the acoustic and electric sounds you want to use and switch between during a given song. My custom bank is this: 1) Martin D-28 2) Martin 12-string 3) Rickenbacker electric 12-string (rear pickup) 4) Strat (mid+bridge PU) 5) Les Paul (bridge PU). This setup works great on covering songs like "Hotel California," "Comfortably Numb," "Aqualung," or (gasp!) "Stairway to Heaven." Then, all you need to do is be coordinated enough to flip the PU selector switch to the correct position at the same time you step on the footswitch routing the guitar to either the PA or amp, while making sure your pedalboard is on the correct setting for your electric sounds. Quite simple, actually!

Can't wait to read more!

[PFRfan]

jbreher - I was at the GC in Arvada a few days ago and they had a 59 and a 69 on the wall in their higher-end guitar room. I really really like the JTV-69. I didn't even plug it in - it just feels and sounds great to me.

[Joebutterfield]

Jbreher, could help but not respond to your post. I am the Line 6 Product Specialist for the Denver area and in fact I will be at all of the Guitar Center locations early next week. During my trip I will have my JTV-69 and if you would like to demo first hand and ask any questions about the product I would be more than willing. Please reply to the post if this works, then we can figure out a way to to hopefully meet up and answer any questions you have. Hope too hear from you soon.

[jbreher]

Originally Posted by PFRfan

jbreher - I was at the GC in Arvada a few days ago and they had a 59 and a 69 on the wall in their higher-end guitar room.

Thanks! I was there a little over a week ago, and there were none in stock. Was told the closest GC with one was in Utah (a -69). They'd order it in for me. But I didn't want to commit - I'd feel wrong in returning it, if I ended up not liking it.

Maybe I'll head down there later today.

[jbreher]

Originally Posted by Joebutterfield

Jbreher, could help but not respond to your post. I am the Line 6 Product Specialist for the Denver area and in fact I will be at all of the Guitar Center locations early next week. During my trip I will have my JTV-69 and if you would like to demo first hand and ask any questions about the product I would be more than willing. Please reply to the post if this works, then we can figure out a way to to hopefully meet up and answer any questions you have. Hope too hear from you soon.

Very nice of you, Joe. Yes, I would definitely like to meet with you to discuss. Please email me - joe at joebear dot net

As I mentioned, I need to choose between your offerings. I'd also like to scope out how the JTV and HD500 work together. And how the HD sounds direct into PA - I'm thinking about ditching an amp altogether.

For the last decade and a half, I've been using a Boss GT-5, which has a global parameter of speaker emulation on/off, which works well for switching between going through a guitar amp, and direct. However, the emulations aren't quite to the level of being able to get an authentic sound without an amp.

[jbreher]

 

Originally Posted by Anderton

In a way, it's basically Les Paul vs. Strat.

 

Exactly. Aspects of both the Les Paul and the Strat appeal to me. If I'd be happy using just one (sound & feel), I'd have no need for the JTV

[Anderton]

Originally Posted by jbreher

Very nice of you, Joe. Yes, I would definitely like to meet with you to discuss. Please email me - joe at joebear dot net

As I mentioned, I need to choose between your offerings. I'd also like to scope out how the JTV and HD500 work together. And how the HD sounds direct into PA - I'm thinking about ditching an amp altogether.

I think you'll find you'll be able to a) ditch the amp, and b) make the FOH person happy I was talking to Chris Jules, who does sound for lots of Las Vegas shows (e.g., Connie Stevens) and he says more and more guitar players are just bringing their own effects systems (POD, laptop running amp sims, whatever) and giving a feed to FOH. Seems like a trend that's gaining traction.

[franklawrence]

First, I'm really enjoying this review. I have an HD500 and have been eyeing the JTVs.

I have found JTVs to play in Guitar Centers in San Jose, Sacramento, and Roseville, CA. They feel and sound pretty great.
The only thing I liked better about the '69 was having 5 positions on the pickup selector switch for changing sounds. It would be great if Line 6 made that possible on the '59. Or is there a way to get it now?

Also, not to be petty, but the headstock on the '69 really needs a redesign from an aesthetic point of view.

[Anderton]

Originally Posted by franklawrence

The only thing I liked better about the '69 was having 5 positions on the pickup selector switch for changing sounds. It would be great if Line 6 made that possible on the '59. Or is there a way to get it now?

The only way to exploit the five positions with the JTV-59 is to do a momentary push on the Alternate Tunings knob, which puts the toggle into selecting positions 2-3-4 instead of 1-3-5. I agree that a five-position switch would make a lot more sense for the electronics. Although it would be weird to have five positions with two pickups, the two "alternate" positions could perhaps be a series or parallel wiring, or something that throws one of the pickups out of phase.

Whaddya think, Line 6? Doable or dumb?

[edeibler]

Originally Posted by Anderton

The only way to exploit the five positions with the JTV-59 is to do a momentary push on the Alternate Tunings knob, which puts the toggle into selecting positions 2-3-4 instead of 1-3-5. I agree that a five-position switch would make a lot more sense for the electronics. Although it would be weird to have five positions with two pickups, the two "alternate" positions could perhaps be a series or parallel wiring, or something that throws one of the pickups out of phase.

Whaddya think, Line 6? Doable or dumb?

Great idea!!!

[Blissful World]

I'm also in the Denver area and would like to attend a Guitar Center demonstration next week, please let us know dates.

I did get to fool around with a JTV-69, and it played pretty darned well. I happen to like the James Tyler stenciling on the headstock, it's different.

I'm pretty close to sold, just one issue: I have heard several of the acoustic models sound convincing when fingerpicked or flatpicked; I haven't heard any videos which sound convincing strummed. My own attempts don't count cause I happened to pass a GC on a Saturday afternoon, it's cacophony in there then, so there was no way to hear any subtlety.

I played it through a Fender Mustang modeling amp, and, I have to say, in 10 minutes I found at least a half dozen sound combinations I would happily record with. I imagine the POD HD would be at least as rewarding.

Basically, this instrument can easily cover my electric needs and quite a few acoustic needs. I think asking it to strum like an acoustic might be asking a bit too much . . . but covering my other bases at its price point is plenty good enough to justify its [Korean] asking price.

My last comment is I believe the price of the US version is more than a little crazy, basically three times as much. I guess PRS prices its Korean guitars at a fraction of the US guitars . . . but I think a price in the $3,000 range will scare off quite a few folks. Then again, I don't know everything.

But the build quality of the Korean was decent out of the box, at least for the example I tried. I'd like fatter frets, but that's personal preference. The E string did not slip off the neck. I loved the fat neck shape. If you like a skinnier neck, the JTV-89 has one, though you have to want the other heavy metal finishings and live without a tremolo.

So, anyone got a clip of a natural sounding Variax acoustic strum? Like one without cheesy reverb and chorus? If it could do that, I wouldn't have to decide between an acoustic and the JTV-69.

Bottom line despite my quibbles: a heckuva of a Swiss Army knife for $1200ish USD!

[PFRfan]

 

Originally Posted by Blissful World

I'm pretty close to sold, just one issue: I have heard several of the acoustic models sound convincing when fingerpicked or flatpicked; I haven't heard any videos which sound convincing strummed.

 

I pretty much felt the same way, but the new firmware really upgraded the acoustics. That's what Craig's demos are. There's also a video from Line 6 on their page which shows off the upgraded models. They sound great to my ears. I NEVER use the acoustics on my original Variax, but these new ones would get a lot of use from me.

[Anderton]

Originally Posted by Blissful World

So, anyone got a clip of a natural sounding Variax acoustic strum? Like one without cheesy reverb and chorus? If it could do that, I wouldn't have to decide between an acoustic and the JTV-69.

The audio examples in Post #24 are all pretty much strummed acoustics. The ones in Post #39 are mostly fingerpicked because that needed to be represented as well, although there are plenty of strums in there too. None of the clips so far have any processors added.

BTW I may have reversed the names on some of the acoustic models - I had named the clips in Sonar, but I'm not sure I arranged them in the intended order when I created the single files that contained all the clips. Well...what's in a name? Just listen to the sound

Meanwhile, here's a clip of the Reso bank instruments. The order is Tricone, Sitar, Danelectro 3021, Banjo, and Dobro. A couple notes: for the sitar, I couldn't resist adding a drone background, and overdubbing a lead. Yeah, I know, I'm supposed to do these straight into the computer, but that was too good a sound to pass up.

Second, I never claimed to be great at banjo or dobro. Where's Jon Chappell when you need him?!?

Third, I used alternate tunings on the Dobro, Tricone, and Danelectro because...well, because it's fun. Why not?

Enjoy the clip! (And Blissful World, let me know if the clips I referenced give you what you need to hear.)

P.S. Question for Line6: If I take the Variax sitar out and run it through the HD500, and simultaneously take the JVT-59 standard pickup out and run it through the Electro-Harmonix Ravish Sitar and then mix the two together but pan them oppositely, will this cause the universe to implode? I want to use this power only for good.

[jbreher]

Well, I made it down the the Arvada GC. Long story short, I'm now the owner of a brand spanking new, shiny candy apple red JTV-69, and an HD500.

It was even the most enjoyable GC shopping experience I ever had. I had the high-end room to myself for about two hours, and Austin brought me everything I asked for.

I'll be back after I play with it a bit

[Blissful World]

That's the one I played - definitely a good one [when compared to certain quality control horror stories on the web when the JTVs first came out].

Craig, I'd say the sound on Post #24 would make me ecstatic to have at my disposal in a live situation coming out of an "electric" guitar. But for serious recording, it's strummed sound is missing a certain amount of projection and a certain amount of overtones. It just sounds slightly off . . . while the electric models get me where they're supposed to take me. That said, there's no doubt I wouldn't hesitate to use it for acoustic leads, those sound great.

Now, what I'm recording presently demands a really good acoustic. And there's lots of strumming.

But for certain types of music not intended for the "golden-eared," the JTV strummed acoustics would be fine, like, any hip hop stuff or as an added texture turned down in a dense mix. Perhaps the right engineer can make it work in a singer-songwriter type recording, but I think just about any Taylor including the 100, 200, or 300 series would work better.

I would like to repeat that's a small criticism at its price point and in light of its tremendous utilitarian value.

[Blissful World]

"If I take the Variax sitar out and run it through the HD500, and simultaneously take the JVT-59 standard pickup out and run it through the Electro-Harmonix Ravish Sitar and then mix the two together but pan them oppositely, will this cause the universe to implode? I want to use this power only for good."

Please do. If my next bong hit turns out to be my last, I'll know why. But if you're still standing, I would love to hear that!

[Anderton]

Originally Posted by Blissful World

Now, what I'm recording presently demands a really good acoustic. And there's lots of strumming.

But for certain types of music not intended for the "golden-eared," the JTV strummed acoustics would be fine, like, any hip hop stuff or as an added texture turned down in a dense mix. Perhaps the right engineer can make it work in a singer-songwriter type recording, but I think just about any Taylor including the 100, 200, or 300 series would work better.

I would like to repeat that's a small criticism at its price point and in light of its tremendous utilitarian value.

Understood!! Given my understanding of technology, the fact that they sound this good is pretty mind-boggling. They'd be absolutely fine for live use, and lots of recording applications AFAIC.

A large part of the "real" acoustic guitar sound is the miking, typically stereo, the mic placement and choice of mics. Of course that element is emulated within the Variax, but it is an emulation, not a wood body pushing air.

What interests me about the acoustics is this. I have a very nice Gibson J-45 that's my go-to guitar for acoustic purposes. It does that fabulous resonating wood thing that's the hallmark of acoustic guitar recordings. But, the Variax acoustics multiply my options. When layered with the J-45, they add a seriously interesting effect. Now, layering another acoustic might do something similar, but I'm not sure...the different character of the Variax tends not to "step on" the J-45.

So, regardless of whether the Variax acoustics can sub for a Taylor, there's no doubt they provide additional tools for your sonic arsenal that have their own merit, and their own useful applications. People might not agree on whether a Variax acoustic can replace a traditional acoustic, but I don't think anyone would disagree that they can supplement a traditional acoustic. For example, I doubt that I'll ever own an acoustic 12-string; I just wouldn't use it enough to justify the $$$. But if I need that sound, the Variax will do the job.

[PFRfan]

 

Originally Posted by jbreher

Well, I made it down the the Arvada GC. Long story short, I'm now the owner of a brand spanking new, shiny candy apple red JTV-69, and an HD500.

 

That's the one I was playing. If I hadn't gone completely cold-turkey on debt, it would be in my room instead of yours. Congrats - I really wanted that guitar!

[sfarfsky]

good review. how does this thing stack up against something like a synth guitar (parker/carvin/godin/strat) into a roland synth system? does the line 6 offer all of the synth sounds? Are Roland and Line 6 the only products in the synth guitar market?

[jbreher]

I guess I'll post a bit while the JTV FW is getting updated by the Monkey.

So I arrived at the store, and Austin recognized me from when I was in asking about the JTV a week or two back. There was a cherry sunburst 59, and the candy apple red 69 I ended up with.

Call me shallow, but I've been thinking the 59 looks best in tobacco sunburst. Ah well. I picked it up and played it a bit. Very nice - feels a lot like my PRS KL380. Action was quite high - both the bridge and the nut, and the rosewood was rather rough-grained. I am sure with a setup and some grain filling on the fretboard, it would be an excellent machine. The dual-humped neck heel is kind of weird, but quite a bit more access is tendered than on a Les Paul. It felt more like a refined instrument than did the 69 - other than the odd texture of the fretboard - which I think would smooth out after a couple dozen hours of playing.

But I was really leaning toward the 69. I figure if I'm going to have a 'do everything' guitar, it needed a trem. Plus, I think the longer scale length may help on the acoustic models. I was just concerned most about the whammy staying in tune. So I picked up the 69 to play around with it, and never felt the need to go back to the 59.

This is a nice guitar. Fairly chunky C-neck, pretty flat fingerboard radius. The neck finish is that odd semi-satin that's been on so many guitars for the last two decades. The body finish is gorgeous and three dimensional, and doesn't have that plasticky feel that poly finishes so often do. Otherwise, it feels a lot like an American Standard Fender Strat.

>

The guitar is quite resonant. Lighter than the last Fender I bought (though that was a '94, so factor accordingly). Fit and finish look great - I've not yet micro-inspected it, but I have yet to find a flaw.

The high E _is_ a little close to the edge. Any closer, and it cold be a problem. The bridge is OK, but the nut slot could have been cut a little further to center. However, the opening riff of Rush's 'The Spirit of Radio' was fine, with no slipping off the fretboard. This is my test - something about that intro pattern, and the way my hand sits to play it, will tell me immediately if the high E is too close to the edge. So it is close, but not too close, if that makes any sense.

I spent a lot of time on the whammy - I'm not sure if the strings are still stretching, or if it is going to give me issues. It does seem to have stabilized through the course of the day. I _think_ it's gonna be fine.

Back with more later - I'm going off to play my guitar(ses)...

[Anderton]

Originally Posted by sfarfsky

good review. how does this thing stack up against something like a synth guitar (parker/carvin/godin/strat) into a roland synth system? does the line 6 offer all of the synth sounds? Are Roland and Line 6 the only products in the synth guitar market?

It's really an apples and oranges situation, but I'm very glad you asked this question as there's still a lot of confusion around the various types of high-tech guitars.

A synth guitar uses a hex pickup to convert the audio from each string into control signals that are capable of sending pitch and dynamics data to MIDI synthesizers (either onboard, or external). The main issues are tracking - the accuracy with which the conversion process follows your playing - and latency, as it takes some time to analyze a note before it's possible to generate a control signal. MIDI guitars let you play instruments like piano, saxophone, etc. from your guitar, although it requires practice to play cleanly enough to get good triggering. Guitar synth latency is typically several milliseconds, sometimes as much as several dozen milliseconds for the lower strings.

Line 6 is a modeling guitar. It also uses a hex pickup, but functions as a sophisticated signal processor. As a result there are no tracking issues as it works on the string signal itself, and latency is only the time required to convert analog to digital (the same kind of delay as with any digital multieffects, which is typically well under 1 millisecond). Unlike MIDI guitar, the Variax can accept any playing style, and techniques like hammer-ons, different picking angles, and such come through just as they would with a standard guitar. You do not have to alter your playing style at all when playing a Variax.

Roland and Fender collaborated on the VG-Strat, a modeling guitar. It's considerably simpler than the Variax, offering five basic sounds (normal and four models) and six tunings. Roland also makes outboard processors that provide MIDI and/or modeling, assuming you have a Roland-compatible guitar.

Gibson's Firebird X can model guitar sounds, but uses a very different approach compared to Line 6 and primarily emphasizes onboard effects for studio and live performance (based on McDSP's Chrome Tone and several custom effects), "robot" tuning, and hex outputs for recording. I have a Firebird X, and was fortunate to have the opportunity to do some of the sound design work on it. I'm a big fan, but consider it a very different kind of guitar, with very different design goals, compared to the Variax.

In all my experience with high-tech guitars, if your priority is emulating a wide variety of guitar sounds in a self-contained instrument that nails those emulations, the Variax is unique. I immediately took to the original Variax because it expanded my tonal options exponentially. However, there's no doubt the new JT Variax is much more than an "update." It really fulfills the original promise of the Variax, and then some, while offering a far superior guitar.

If you'd also like to experiment with a Variax and MIDI guitar, you can take the JTV's standard pickup output and drive a Sonuus G2M guitar-to-MIDI converter. It's monophonic, not polyphonic, but it's inexpensive and works well with leads - check out my review here on Harmony Central.

[Blissful World]

Originally Posted by Anderton

Understood!! Given my understanding of technology, the fact that they sound this good is pretty mind-boggling. They'd be absolutely fine for live use, and lots of recording applications AFAIC.

A large part of the "real" acoustic guitar sound is the miking, typically stereo, the mic placement and choice of mics. Of course that element is emulated within the Variax, but it is an emulation, not a wood body pushing air.

What interests me about the acoustics is this. I have a very nice Gibson J-45 that's my go-to guitar for acoustic purposes. It does that fabulous resonating wood thing that's the hallmark of acoustic guitar recordings. But, the Variax acoustics multiply my options. When layered with the J-45, they add a seriously interesting effect. Now, layering another acoustic might do something similar, but I'm not sure...the different character of the Variax tends not to "step on" the J-45.

So, regardless of whether the Variax acoustics can sub for a Taylor, there's no doubt they provide additional tools for your sonic arsenal that have their own merit, and their own useful applications. People might not agree on whether a Variax acoustic can replace a traditional acoustic, but I don't think anyone would disagree that they can supplement a traditional acoustic. For example, I doubt that I'll ever own an acoustic 12-string; I just wouldn't use it enough to justify the $$$. But if I need that sound, the Variax will do the job.

Good points.

Additionally, the acoustic sounds conform to what the programmers at Line6 consider quality acoustic sounds, which may be slightly different from what I consider quality acoustic sounds, or quality acoustic sounds that are right for my particular needs.

That said, from what I can gather about using a Variax with a POD HD, there are basically infinite tweaks to apply to a sound that would probably bring the Variax closer to a sound that would work for many of my purposes -- though a talented engineer would still be required to get it the rest of the way there.

I don't consider that an impossibility, because I've seen and heard what super engineers have done with tracks I've considered unusable.

It is pretty sick to think that a JTV costs about what a Les Paul Studio does. One is a one-trick pony, the other has that trick and about 30 others. Les Paul the inventor would approve.

[sfarfsky]

Originally Posted by Anderton

It's really an apples and oranges situation, but I'm very glad you asked this question as there's still a lot of confusion around the various types of high-tech guitars.

A synth guitar uses a hex pickup to convert the audio from each string into control signals that are capable of sending pitch and dynamics data to MIDI synthesizers (either onboard, or external). The main issues are tracking - the accuracy with which the conversion process follows your playing - and latency, as it takes some time to analyze a note before it's possible to generate a control signal. MIDI guitars let you play instruments like piano, saxophone, etc. from your guitar, although it requires practice to play cleanly enough to get good triggering. Guitar synth latency is typically several milliseconds, sometimes as much as several dozen milliseconds for the lower strings.

Line 6 is a modeling guitar. It also uses a hex pickup, but functions as a sophisticated signal processor. As a result there are no tracking issues as it works on the string signal itself, and latency is only the time required to convert analog to digital (the same kind of delay as with any digital multieffects, which is typically well under 1 millisecond). Unlike MIDI guitar, the Variax can accept any playing style, and techniques like hammer-ons, different picking angles, and such come through just as they would with a standard guitar. You do not have to alter your playing style at all when playing a Variax.

Roland and Fender collaborated on the VG-Strat, a modeling guitar. It's considerably simpler than the Variax, offering five basic sounds (normal and four models) and six tunings. Roland also makes outboard processors that provide MIDI and/or modeling, assuming you have a Roland-compatible guitar.

Gibson's Firebird X can model guitar sounds, but uses a very different approach compared to Line 6 and primarily emphasizes onboard effects for studio and live performance (based on McDSP's Chrome Tone and several custom effects), "robot" tuning, and hex outputs for recording. I have a Firebird X, and was fortunate to have the opportunity to do some of the sound design work on it. I'm a big fan, but consider it a very different kind of guitar, with very different design goals, compared to the Variax.

In all my experience with high-tech guitars, if your priority is emulating a wide variety of guitar sounds in a self-contained instrument that nails those emulations, the Variax is unique. I immediately took to the original Variax because it expanded my tonal options exponentially. However, there's no doubt the new JT Variax is much more than an "update." It really fulfills the original promise of the Variax, and then some, while offering a far superior guitar.

If you'd also like to experiment with a Variax and MIDI guitar, you can take the JTV's standard pickup output and drive a Sonuus G2M guitar-to-MIDI converter. It's monophonic, not polyphonic, but it's inexpensive and works well with leads - check out my review here on Harmony Central.

I think I'll pass

thanks for schooling me. These other guitars are midi guitars and the line6 variax is a modeling guitar. the line 6 variax does all the work in the guitar and midi guitars rely on external components, amirite

[Anderton]

Originally Posted by sfarfsky

I think I'll pass

thanks for schooling me. These other guitars are midi guitars and the line6 variax is a modeling guitar. the line 6 variax does all the work in the guitar and midi guitars rely on external components, amirite

Mostly. The Roland VG-99 does modeling, but it's an external box that requires you use a Roland hex pickup (the same kind used for their MIDI guitars).

The most important thing to remember is that the Variax processes the strings themselves to produce sound. A MIDI guitar extracts information from strings and converts that into a format MIDI devices can understand.