Line 6 "Dream Rig" (Tyler Variax, POD HD500, DT25 amp)

[toothinhand]

 

Originally Posted by DrFunky

Toothinhand,

I found the answer to your question on Line 6 JTV forum from a few days ago. Quoting Crusty Old Rocker, a Line 6 employee:

"You will get a terrible result with the modelled tones. The reason is the Piezo PUs in the bridge saddles...When operating a Bigsby Trem, the strings actually move over the bridge saddles. With magnetic PUs this works fine but having a string physically rubbing itself against a Piezo PU is going to be heard and the sound will be very loud and very nasty. I would suggest you look at the Stetsbar bridge...http//stetsbar.com/"

I hope this is of some help,

Funky

 

Hi Again Doc,

Your right, the saddles on the bridge would be a problem.

If'n I can find a broken JT Variax to part out, I may try switching the bridge to a

Shadow piezo bridge. They both function the same accept the Shadow, (at least

the one I have), is molded out off Graph Tech material. I think it's the same as

the old Mike Christian bridges. I've used those before with Bigsbys and the strings

slide perfectly. I've got Bigsbys on every electric I own and never have a problem.

The trick is to get rid of any binding points. Graph Tech saddles and nut, Sperzel

tuners and I switch out the roller on the tension bar with stainless tubing. That

decreases the down force on the bridge.

[metfoo]

how can I go about setting up my rig to output through the 1/4" out when using acoustic models, then the dt25 for all nonacoutsic/resonator models? acoustic through the dt25 doesn't sound right. RIght now i get audio through both, but don't want to switch the amp to standby when going acoustic

[Anderton]

And here we go with some classic guitar sounds. I've been trying to figure out how best to demo these, and then I realized the best option was probably to slowly strum some chords for each example. I tried some single note lines, and rhythm guitar parts, but neither gave an "overview" of the sound like a slow strum. So, without further ado...here's the order in which you'll hear the examples. The pauses between guitars are just a little longer than the pauses between pickups.

Les Paul 1958 neck

Lead Paul 1958 bridge

Telecaster 1960 bridge

Telecaster 1960 neck

Strat mid+neck

Strat mid

Strat mid+bridge

Strat neck

Strat bridge

Rickenbacker 360 12-string bridge

Rickenbacker 360 12-string neck

Rickenbacker 360 bridge

Rickenbacker 360 bridge+neck

Rickenbacker 360 neck

Hope ya like 'em! Just a few more examples, then we'll button this up and head over to the DT25.

[Cobbler]

Great review Craig! I just recently purchased a JTV-59. I got a black one in homage to Neil. I got a bit frustrated with the firmware update and sent off a bit of a nasty note to Line 6 as a result. I thought I would post my experience here so others don’t go through the same misunderstandings and find themselves sending off an absurd rant as I did. Hopefully the Line 6 guys understand my frustration and forgive me.

I used the USB puck and the Monkey to do the update. I learned the hard way about having the ¼” guitar cable being plugged in. I am one of that guys who builds the swing set without looking at the instructions and wonders what those handful of nuts and bolts left over were for. I obviously figured out that the ¼” being inserted is what actually turns on the guitar and enables the guitar side of the puck (light goes from red to green).

My first time went smoothly (does take a few minutes to update presets) with no hang ups and I got a “successful completion” message and “OK” status post upgrade. It was not OK. I basically panicked and thought I had a bad model knob since the magnetic pickups worked but not so with the models. I promptly sent off my rants to Line 6 since I had previously read about tone knob issues in the original releases. I ran the update using the latest firmware file I downloaded several times from their site and it never was correct even though I got messages saying it was updated successfully.

After many hours of trying different scenarios I got it working!!!! It only installed correctly when I let the Monkey update program retrieve the firmware file itself. All was good. It leads me to conclude that either the file on the site was corrupt or it gets corrupt (on my system) in the download process or their update app corrupts it when using the ”load from location” option.

So, to reiterate, if you have run into similar experiences, make sure you have a 1/4” guitar cable plugged in along with the puck (both lights on the puck should be green). Run the Monkey update program and let it download the file from Line 6 rather than downloading the file previously and using the ”load from location” option. I have also had several friends say they have had to run the update several times to get the presets to take. YMMV

I am really enjoying the versatility of the JTV-59! I run mine through an Axe-FX II and the options available to me are endless. I just need more time to explore them. The tools we have today are AMAZING!

Craig

[fman67]

Hi All,

just signed up here so's I can join this discussion.

I've had a jtv69 for a few months now and love it.

However, is there anyway to separate the mag pups and variax pups into individual signals for separate processing apart from having to buy a POD HD500??

cheers

fman67

[Anderton]

Here are some more electric guitar models. This isn't all of them, but between all the examples I've done so far, you probably get the idea that this is a very versatile guitar.

The demos are done the same way as the last batch - slowly strum some chords for each example, and again, the pauses between guitars are just a little longer than the pauses between pickups.

Gibson 1961 ES-335 neck

Gibson 1961 ES-335 neck+bridge

Gibson 1961 ES-335 bridge

Epiphone 1967 Casino neck

Epiphone 1967 Casino bridge

Gretsch 1959 6120 neck

Gretsch 1959 6120 neck+bridge

Gretsch 1959 6120 bridge

Gretsch 1956 Silver Jet neck

Gretsch 1956 Silver Jet bridge

Gibson 1976 Firebird V neck

Gibson 1976 Firebird V bridge

Gibson 1956 Les Paul Junior

[Anderton]

 

Originally Posted by fman67

However, is there anyway to separate the mag pups and variax pups into individual signals for separate processing apart from having to buy a POD HD500??

 

Not that I've found. There are two outputs, 1/4" and Variax VDI, but you'll need "something Line 6" to deal with the signal coming from the Variax digital out.

[DrFunky]

 

Originally Posted by metfoo

how can I go about setting up my rig to output through the 1/4" out when using acoustic models, then the dt25 for all nonacoutsic/resonator models? acoustic through the dt25 doesn't sound right. RIght now i get audio through both, but don't want to switch the amp to standby when going acoustic

 

Metfoo, there are a number of ways to deal with this...If you are just using VDI cable from JTV you can set inputs to Variax (models)on the Pod HD500, output electrics and reso's thru L6 link to DT amp(s), or unbalanced out(s) to power amp in of other tube amps. You can send the XLR output(s) to a PA system for the acoustics, many people do it this way. House engineer can turn acoustics up and electrics down .

If you are using amps it is a good idea to try the Preamp models on HD 500 instead of the full models on electrics and especially on acoustics. This is because the power amp part should be included in your actual amp(s). But sometimes the full models do sound good so experiment. If using DT amps try no cabinet models on the acoustics first, here again sometimes the cabinet model will bring something interesting too.

This is of course, when using amps to get electric/ acoustic sounds. You say your acoustics don't sound good thru the DT amp. So avoiding the full amp models, mics and cab models will save you DSP and may sound more realistic. And, if you are using 2 amp models on the HD 500, it gives you more power to use for EFX say if you have one amp set up for electrics and the other for acoustics on one preset. Also the extra DSP could be used for an EFX loop which I will discuss shortly. If going to a PA however, it may sound better with the full amp models and the mic'd cab models.

Now the controversial approach... Electrics out to your amp(s) thru VDI/ Pod HD. Be sure to set inputs one and two for Variax models / same (maintains unity gain). Then send the quarter inch out put to the House or PA system for acoustics. The trick here is that there has been documented ground loop noise created when both the VDI and 1/4" cables are connected to the JTV. The solution is to connect a direct box to 1/4" out before sending to PA system and raise the ground if needed.

Line 6 had a very nice powered direct box which came with the Variax 700 series. If you have one or can get one...it requires a TRS 1/4" cable out from the Variax to the L6 box, then a regular instrument (unbalanced) 1/4" cable to your amp or Pod HD. There is a foot switch on it to alternate with an XLR out which you can send to the house PA for acoustic models. And there is a ground lift switch on it in case you get the ground loop sound mentioned especially when the VDI is also connected. However in this instance you may not need the VDI. This is the best solution since it shuts off sound to your amp(s) when the footswitch is set to the XLR out. you won't have to put the amp(s) on standby and can go back and forth electrics/ acoustic models with the footswitch!

I have also heard of people using the programmable Effects Loop on the HD 500 which you can put before or after the Preamp models to go out with their acoustic patches. If you are using any of the modulation or time effects with the acoustic models use the post amp to place the loop. this will also maintain stereo outputs if you are using stereo. Remember, you don't necessarily need to use an amp or preamp models with acoustics to the house PA. The operator of the house mixer can add some compression and reverb etc. In which case you can put the loop first before an amp model or no amp model.

And finally, Jon Chapell has a great video on the 4 cable method on the home page of Harmony Central right now. I think this would apply too. However, you might need an A/ B footswitch in that setup too. Good luck! I hope you get great sound which ever way you go.

[John Laidlaw]

Craig, many thanks for the electric samples - a very interesting comparison . Just out of interest, what were your thoughts on the Tele neck pickup sound? To my (battered) ears, it sounded a little on the muffled side...

[Anderton]

 

Originally Posted by John Laidlaw

Craig, many thanks for the electric samples - a very interesting comparison . Just out of interest, what were your thoughts on the Tele neck pickup sound? To my (battered) ears, it sounded a little on the muffled side...

 

Agreed, same here. I'm going to re-visit it tonight and make sure I didn't have the tone control rolled off, or modified it accidentally in Workbench while I thought I was working on something else.

[dramey]

They didn't model the Tele like the Strat where all the tones are from one guitar. I forget which guitar that position is modeled on, but it's pretty much universally agreed to be the least usable tone on the Variax.

[John Laidlaw]

 

Originally Posted by dramey

They didn't model the Tele like the Strat where all the tones are from one guitar. I forget which guitar that position is modeled on, but it's pretty much universally agreed to be the least usable tone on the Variax.

 

Dramey, you're absolutely right - I took a look at Line 6's description, and they make a point of mentioning it there:

"Based on* 1960 Fender® Telecaster® Custom. Leo Fender’s Telecaster®, originally known as the Broadcaster, was the first commercially successful solidbody electric guitar and has been in continuous production for over fifty years, powering the Nashville sound and a long list of rock and jazz guitar luminaries. Note: The neck pickup position of this model, like the original, has a very “deep” sound and the tone control is bypassed."

Personally, I'd be happier with more of an Amos Garrett-type sound. But I'm just this guy, you know? .

[LarryLion]

Anderton: Dunno when you are going to proceed with the POD 500HD portion of this Dream Rig review (which is excellent, by the way!), but I thought I'd mention now that I have noticed a distinct difference between the JTV via a 1/4 inch cable (models not Mags) direct to any of my amps, vs the JTV via the VDI cable into a POD 5000HD. The JTV to either of my Fenders, or my Mesa Boogie, on the regular guitar cable, produces awesome tone, but thin, anemic, flat and lifeless tone via the VDI to POD, necessitating hours of tweaking to get it right.

I posted this a s a question to Line6 on their forum, but when you do tackle the PD part of this, I think you'll find that the JTV digital-to-analog conversion in the guitar (i.e to the 1/4inch cable) is way better sounding that the tone resulting from the VDI/Pod hookup, straight through (i.e. nothing in the patch). Make no mistake, I love the JTV, and the tones it produces, but I'm not so sure about the POD 500HD part of this system at all.

Hopefully, it is just me, and I need a replacement POD, but I suspect others might have found the same thing. I'm eagerly awaiting your review ...

[Anderton]

 

Originally Posted by dramey

They didn't model the Tele like the Strat where all the tones are from one guitar. I forget which guitar that position is modeled on, but it's pretty much universally agreed to be the least usable tone on the Variax.

 

I went back to make sure the sound was as it's supposed to be, and it is. However, while I don't particularly care for the tone by itself, the lack of highs and emphasis on lower mids makes it a good choice when driving heavy distortion - sort of a "super" version of the "pulling back the tone control for creamier tone" concept. Give it a try, you might find it useful after all

[Anderton]

 

Originally Posted by LarryLion

Anderton: Dunno when you are going to proceed with the POD 500HD portion of this Dream Rig review (which is excellent, by the way!), but I thought I'd mention now that I have noticed a distinct difference between the JTV via a 1/4 inch cable (models not Mags) direct to any of my amps, vs the JTV via the VDI cable into a POD 5000HD. The JTV to either of my Fenders, or my Mesa Boogie, on the regular guitar cable, produces awesome tone, but thin, anemic, flat and lifeless tone via the VDI to POD, necessitating hours of tweaking to get it right.

I posted this a s a question to Line6 on their forum, but when you do tackle the PD part of this, I think you'll find that the JTV digital-to-analog conversion in the guitar (i.e to the 1/4inch cable) is way better sounding that the tone resulting from the VDI/Pod hookup, straight through (i.e. nothing in the patch). Make no mistake, I love the JTV, and the tones it produces, but I'm not so sure about the POD 500HD part of this system at all.

Hopefully, it is just me, and I need a replacement POD, but I suspect others might have found the same thing. I'm eagerly awaiting your review ...

 

I'll definitely check this out...I didn't have this problem with the original Variax, but then again, I wasn't using the POD HD500. As I'm doing the DT25 next, I can try going into the amp both ways, and seeing what happens.

[Anderton]

And now, a public service

The Variax manual organizes the model listing by model switch position, then guitar. I thought it would be more convenient to organize by model switch position, then pickup selector position. So, I made a "cheat sheet" that lists the Variax models in a way that, at least to me, makes it easier to find the models I want as well as makes it easier to explore the other models.

The blue highlights are there to remind you that with the JTV-59, you need to hit the tuning knob to go into the "alternate pickup selector" mode.

The image is embedded in this post, but I've also attached a PDF you can print out. I hope all you JTV-59 owners find this useful!

[LarryLion]

I'm not familiar with any of the older Variax models, only that they did not have real pickups. I'm going to try the "4 cable method" described elsewhere on this forum, and on the Line6 board, and see if that makes any difference. The bummer is, though, is that my little Fender BJ does not have send/return capability, so 4CM would not work for a bunch of real-world amps anyway. I'll also try to cobble up some audio to illustrate my point.

Larry

[Anderton]

 

Originally Posted by LarryLion

I'm not familiar with any of the older Variax models, only that they did not have real pickups.

 

True, but they did have both 1/4" and VDI outputs. At that time the POD HD500 didn't exist, so I used it primarily with a Vetta when using VDI, and didn't hear any significant difference between that and using the 1/4" output, differences in amplification systems notwithstanding. That's why I think maybe there's some HD500 parameter somewhere that's misset.

[DrFunky]

 

Originally Posted by metfoo

how can I go about setting up my rig to output through the 1/4" out when using acoustic models, then the dt25 for all nonacoutsic/resonator models? acoustic through the dt25 doesn't sound right. RIght now i get audio through both, but don't want to switch the amp to standby when going acoustic

 

Metfoo, Really interesting video from Sean Halley of Line 6 about constucting a dual pathway signal for electrics to DT25 and an acoustic which you can send out to PA or recorder. This has use of dual footpedals so you can shut one side down at a time or even cross fade.

enjoy, Funky

[strat2]

I've owned too many line 6 product to mention, including my favorite purchases of the Vetta HD and Combo, stellar amps.

Note to the design engineers:

Aesthetics are 'word' .

I have seen nothing but fugly Variax machines, put out some Strat or Super Strat Body and or LP Clones and see where it goes, I have yet to see or play a variax machine that I would be caught in public with.

If you can't do Strats or Pauls, try some Schecters variations, PRS, Ibanez...

Look at the Brian May Design, I can't stand it, there is an audience that will buy it , not me, I can't see how it would ever become an axe that everyone owns, it's just as fugly as the Variax models that I have seen , no one hates the look of a Strat.

Just sayin'

[revans]

Thanks for the public service; your cheat sheet is a an excellent quick reference.

But I though it looked odd that the 1958 Gibson Les Paul Standard would have a P-90 in the bridge position, so I checked the Line 6 manual. Sure enough, it's Lester position 2 that has the bridge P-90 of a 1952 Gibson Les Paul Goldtop, and position 1 is a non-P-90 bridge humbucker.

[Great catch, thanks! Both the embedded image and the attached PDF in post #166 have been corrected. - Craig]

I'm really enjoying my own POD HD500 right now and seriously considering a Variax JTV-69 for the whammy and the easier model selection.

Thanks for the excellent review so far.

[sinatra]

Hello! Anderton, could you please give your opinion and answer to some questions about the Variax Tyler?

I was thinking of buying one in internet. There are no shops that have it where I live, and lately, while I was in a music shop, the seller told me that he had tried it, and it was not very good. He said about the Variax Tyler (mostly comparing it with the Gibson Firebird X):

1- It does not respond well to dynamic changes (you can play softer or not and the volume keeps similar)

2-It does not respond well to palm muting

3-The quality of sound is much lower than any Gibson guitar (including the Firebird X) delivers. To him is clear that it is not a "quality" guitar

4-It has not the same possibilities to actualize like the Firebird X has. Gibson says that there will be third party software producers (I do not know if has appeared anything until now) and that the electronics can upgrade.

5-The alternative tunings in the Variax are simulated digitally (it seems that sound quality is worse)

I know you have played with the Firebird X. And though this thread is about the Variax, and both have different concepts, I´d like to know your thoughts about these points and a comparison of the "quality of sound" of both guitars.

I will most probably buy one or the other.

And in your opinion... things are moving with the Firebird X (sounds and configurations shared in the owners' forum, software appearing etc.), or the promises made by Gibson are not getting real? I´ve seen that there is movement in the line 6 forums, but the Firebird X owners' forum is private.

Your help would be very valuable. Thanks a lot in advance

[strat2]

 

Originally Posted by strat2

I've owned too many line 6 product to mention, including my favorite purchases of the Vetta HD and Combo, stellar amps.

Note to the design engineers:

Aesthetics are 'word' .

I have seen nothing but fugly Variax machines, put out some Strat or Super Strat Body and or LP Clones and see where it goes, I have yet to see or play a variax machine that I would be caught in public with.

If you can't do Strats or Pauls, try some Schecters variations, PRS, Ibanez...

Look at the Brian May Design, I can't stand it, there is an audience that will buy it , not me, I can't see how it would ever become an axe that everyone owns, it's just as fugly as the Variax models that I have seen , no one hates the look of a Strat.

Just sayin'

 

I stand corrected:

This Super strat, though not exactly right for me, looks like a definite 'will sell' item.

The volume knob could stand to be 3/4 further from the pickup, but the neck joint looks great for a bolt on , and the basic RG design is something that will do nicely.

http://www.sweetwater.com/guitargall...om/sW11101272/

Do you have any Les Paul, Strat or other clone models coming out ?

.

[Anderton]

 

Originally Posted by sinatra

Hello! Anderton, could you please give your opinion and answer to some questions about the Variax Tyler?

I was thinking of buying one in internet. There are no shops that have it where I live, and lately, while I was in a music shop, the seller told me that he had tried it, and it was not very good. He said about the Variax Tyler (mostly comparing it with the Gibson Firebird X):

1- It does not respond well to dynamic changes (you can play softer or not and the volume keeps similar)

2-It does not respond well to palm muting

3-The quality of sound is much lower than any Gibson guitar (including the Firebird X) delivers. To him is clear that it is not a "quality" guitar

4-It has not the same possibilities to actualize like the Firebird X has. Gibson says that there will be third party software producers (I do not know if has appeared anything until now) and that the electronics can upgrade.

5-The alternative tunings in the Variax are simulated digitally (it seems that sound quality is worse)

 

We take the tough questions here

Well...from where I’m sitting, the JTV-59 is in one guitar stand, and Firebird X #006 is next to it. And just so you know where I’m coming from, my third indispensable (and traditional) guitar is the very first PRS Signature Series guitar, which plays like the neck is made of extra-terrestrial silk. I would absolutely hate to give up any of them, because with these three guitars I can pretty much do anything. And I mean anything.

(I’m sure people around the world are reading this and thinking “Wow, what a lucky bastard.” To which I would say “yes, when it comes to guitars, indeed I am.”) Anyway, on to your questions...

1 + 2 - I don’t agree at all about the Variax having limited dynamics or not coping with palm muting. These are real strings and they act like real strings. Harmonics, tapping, dynamics, slides, whatever—they all work just as you’d expect. I’m kind of mystified that someone would think otherwise, unless I don’t understand his objection.

But hey—believe your ears! The attached, short audio example has three parts. The first part plays a single string from the lowest level I could resolve (about -50dB) up to 0dB. That’s a ratio of around 300:1—I simply couldn’t play any softer using a pick. The second section builds up a chord from very soft to maximum. The third section has palm muting. All of these sounds use a Tele model.

The following is a screen shot of the audio example.

3 - The FBX is of course an excellent guitar in terms of playability. I haven’t had a chance to play the higher-end JTV Custom Shop models, so I don’t know how they compare to the FBX. However, I will say that even the lower-cost JTV guitars are fine guitars in their own right, not just that they blow away the first generation Variax guitars. Reputations die hard, and as a result some people may be skeptical of the new Variaxes. They needn’t be.

4 - I can’t comment on Gibson’s plans for the future with the FBX simply because I don’t know; I was a consultant on the project in a very specific area. I do know is that it was designed with upgrading in mind, and many of the elements are user-replaceable. I suggest contacting Gibson and asking what plans they have beyond the additional software and firmware builds since its initial release. (Note that with any high-tech product, I always recommend buying something for what it is now, not what it might become in the future.)

Line 6 support is a known quantity because the Variax has been around for years. It’s extraordinarily impressive that you can take any Variax and bring it up to spec with the current models—yes, if you have a Variax 500 sitting around, a trip to the Line 6 Monkey will give you almost all the models in today’s JTV-series guitars. [Edit: But not using the JTV firmware update, but rather, the last update that was offered for the original Variaxes - see post #191] The POD HD500 has received numerous updates, and Line 6 is generous in its updating policy—all the updates I’ve done to the Dream Rig have been free of charge, and it costs nothing to update older Variaxes. In terms of support I’d give Line 6 extremely high marks, not just for the Variax but as a company.

5 - The FBX tunes the strings mechanically. The advantage is “what you hear is what you get” as you’re hearing the actual string, and there is no alteration to the string’s tone. The disadvantage is you can’t tune the strings sharp or flat any more than you could with a standard guitar. In other words, there’s no way you’re going to tune strings 4, 5, and 6 up an octave to get Nashville tuning. It also takes a few seconds to tune the strings.

The Variax tunes electronically. The advantages are that you can transpose up to plus or minus an octave, and the tuning changes are instantaneous. The disadvantages are that the string pitch itself doesn’t change, so unless you’re doing octave changes, the transposed pitch is not going to be the same as the string pitch. This turns out to be less of an issue than you might think if you wear headphones in the studio, or play live at anything approaching reasonable volume.

The other disadvantage is that the greater the degree of transposition, the less natural the sound. However, listen to the audio examples in post #124 of the tunings, and I think you’ll agree there’s nothing wrong with the sound quality. Even the octave higher transposition on the acoustic guitar doing Nashville tuning in post #130 sounds quite good.

[dramey]

The older Variax wasn't great with heavily palm muted chunky stuff. The Tyler is better at it, and don't forget the built in pickups.

The alt turnings don't sound bad at all. I wouldn't record with with them, but they are quite usable.