WARNING - aporcelainsky is a scammer.

[cleverbastid]

I'm sick of seeing this piece of {censored} thread. down with putz.

[catsandstrats]

More than obvious what happened to me....Apo didnt like the guitar, but still wanted to keep it. Decided that it was worth the money, but not the pedals...which he still had in his possession because he hadnt mailed them yet!

My opinion doesn't really matter, but I think tracking should be required on all these deals because it doesnt cost much, and it completely guards against these types of situations where someone is out hundreds of dollars.

Even if the post office lost this pedal, Apo should have to reimburse Putz...the sellers responsibility is to deliver the merchandise.....and prove that it was delivered, or reimburse if they cant prove it was sent!!
Anyone who doesnt agree with this....send me $300 bucks and I will send you a Les Paul........maybe.

[jnurp]

More than obvious what happened to me....Apo didnt like the guitar, but still wanted to keep it. Decided that it was worth the money, but not the pedals...which he still had in his possession because he hadnt mailed them yet! My opinion doesn't really matter, but I think tracking should be required on all these deals because it doesnt cost much, and it completely guards against these types of situations where someone is out hundreds of dollars. Even if the post office lost this pedal, Apo should have to reimburse Putz...the sellers responsibility is to deliver the merchandise.....and prove that it was delivered, or reimburse if they cant prove it was sent!! Anyone who doesnt agree with this....send me $300 bucks and I will send you a Les Paul........maybe.

 

 

I said the same thing a few pages ago...i cant believe how this guy is getting off without any doubt that he was right because he has engaged in multiple favorable deals here before. He has the nerve to say that he wont speak about it anymore yet he still cannot produce any evidence that he sent the pedals out to this guy putz. Count me out from any trades with you dude, poor communication, poor reaction and willingness to help with a snafu is a terrible person to deal with on these forums. You may have sent the pedals out, but at least act like you {censored}ing give a {censored} instead of sitting on a perch.

[nagshay1818]

Please everyone, refrain from posting anymore on this thread. It is ridiculous, and this is the only thing I hate about HC. Do your jobs mods and delete this.

 

This would have been deleted in less than an hour over at TGP.

[catsandstrats]

Please everyone, refrain from posting anymore on this thread. It is ridiculous, and this is the only thing I hate about HC. Do your jobs mods and delete this. This would have been deleted in less than an hour over at TGP.

 

 

Why would YOU not want to see it discussed?

 

I can see the point at TGP because Brian, the owner of the site, does not want to get sued. But why would you, an impartial observer, be concerned??

 

If you were on the short end of this stick, I am sure that you would not want the whole topic to not only be ignored, but forbidden as a topic of conversation.

[czarny]

Why would YOU not want to see it discussed? I can see the point at TGP because Brian, the owner of the site, does not want to get sued. But why would you, an impartial observer, be concerned?? If you were on the short end of this stick, I am sure that you would not want the whole topic to not only be ignored, but forbidden as a topic of conversation.

 

 

+1

 

There is some definite shadiness (more like a lack of accountability) going on here. Reading the accusations and the responses gives people the opportunity to better judge those with whom they may do future deals.

[chrometoyz]

I said the same thing a few pages ago...i cant believe how this guy is getting off without any doubt that he was right because he has engaged in multiple favorable deals here before. He has the nerve to say that he wont speak about it anymore yet he still cannot produce any evidence that he sent the pedals out to this guy putz. Count me out from any trades with you dude, poor communication, poor reaction and willingness to help with a snafu is a terrible person to deal with on these forums. You may have sent the pedals out, but at least act like you {censored}ing give a {censored} instead of sitting on a perch.

 

 

 

 

 

WORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[plainchip]

Please everyone, refrain from posting anymore on this thread. It is ridiculous, and this is the only thing I hate about HC. Do your jobs mods and delete this. This would have been deleted in less than an hour over at TGP.

 

 

I hate post like this cat's!! If you don't like it, then don't read it. Geeezus Crest!!! I hate pickles but I don't go into every McDonalds and tell them "Stop putting pickles on every single burger because Burger King doesn't do that!" I'm pretty sure the world DOES NOT revolve around me. I know what I'm getting when I walk through their doors. You read the thread title, move along if you don't like it. FFS!!

[nagshay1818]

 

+1 There is some definite shadiness (more like a lack of accountability) going on here. Reading the accusations and the responses gives people the opportunity to better judge those with whom they may do future deals.

 

 

And to what this guy said, I 100% agree with getting a better judgement f people for future transactions. That is why I check for their names under the Goob/Bad deal thread.

[brokenarrow5]

i dont know why everyone is on putz's ass---- he didnt recieve the pedals and apo cant prove he sent them
if i sent pedals and they didnt get there-- my ass would find out where the hell they went-- there has to be a record

i'm sure both guys are fine to deal with-- it's just a bad deal---

but apo just walks away and says i'm done because some guys think he is cool?
and then you guys bitch out putz---- something sounds fishy here----

if i didnt get stuff from someone i would raise hell---- easy to say get over it when its not you getting burned

just my opinion and i dont know either party involved

[Clonexx]

i dont know why everyone is on putz's ass---- he didnt recieve the pedals and apo cant prove he sent them if i sent pedals and they didnt get there-- my ass would find out where the hell they went-- there has to be a record i'm sure both guys are fine to deal with-- it's just a bad deal--- but apo just walks away and says i'm done because some guys think he is cool? and then you guys bitch out putz---- something sounds fishy here---- if i didnt get stuff from someone i would raise hell---- easy to say get over it when its not you getting burned just my opinion and i dont know either party involved

 

 

You don't mention Putz sending Apo a guitar with a broken tuner. Not that big of a deal, but not what was represented. Putz didn't offer to make it right, he showed Apo where he can buy tuners and said there ya go, go buy tuners. He didn't offer to go through the shipping company to file a claim, or offer to give some money back so Apo could get the tuner fixed. But that was ok?

 

You also don't mention Putz presenting 2 different shipping addresses by using his friends Paypal account, then asking Apo to ship to a completely different address. Doing that completely invalidates Apo's seller protection through Paypal. So Putz could just come back and say he never received the pedals, file a claim and he would win since Apo didn't ship to the confirmed Paypal address. If Apo DID ship to the confirmed Paypal address instead of some address Putz gave him, so that his protection would be valid, then he is in the right to do so. That also leaves it up in the air since the pedals would go to Putz's FRIENDS house, where they could have been taken off the guys step, or his "friend" took them and told Putz they never got there.

 

Apo also has a lot more then just a few people backing him up as far as his character goes. He even has someone who lives near him that met him face to face for a trade backing him up on him being a straight up guy.

 

Putz has also been acting like a spoiled 14 year old, where Apo has been mature for the most part until he said he was done with this. I would be fed up too if I had to deal with the way Putz was acting.

 

You oversimplified the whole thing, and it's just not that cut and dry. They are BOTH wrong, and there's no way to absolutely uncover the truth. But based on the shadiness of using 2 addresses and the fact that he's acting like a spoiled kid and the fact that he blew Apo off when the tuner was brought to his attention, I would tend to side with Apo. Especially with all of the people attesting to his character and great trades with him. Not just 1 or 2, but many.

 

I know I said the last post I made was my last post but oh well...I hate seeing one sided posts just saying Apo needs to pony up when Putz is just as much, if not MORE at fault.

[catsandstrats]

You don't mention Putz sending Apo a guitar with a broken tuner.

 

 

This is where the deal went bad. Apo felt ripped off by the tuner and the bad setup....then he took his revenge by not sending the pedal......

 

He then came on here and was very careful with his words and garnered support from the board....very slick. You guys all need to read the whole thread again....it was very calculated, and all he wanted to do from the beginning is make the thread go away, or start a pile-on on Putz. He succeeded.

 

The PayPal thing is irrelevant. There is no seller protection outside of eBay. Just a smokescreen from Apo.

 

No biggie to me, I just will not deal with Apo....

 

If the package does not make it to the buyer....it is ALWAYS the shippers fault. I dont care if someone steals it off the porch, the seller should have required a signature for delivery if he wasnt prepared to pay for a package that was not delivered to the buyer.

[Clonexx]

This is where the deal went bad. Apo felt ripped off by the tuner and the bad setup....then he took his revenge by not sending the pedal...... He then came on here and was very careful with his words and garnered support from the board....very slick. You guys all need to read the whole thread again....it was very calculated, and all he wanted to do from the beginning is make the thread go away, or start a pile-on on Putz. He succeeded. The PayPal thing is irrelevant. There is no seller protection outside of eBay. Just a smokescreen from Apo. No biggie to me, I just will not deal with Apo.... If the package does not make it to the buyer....it is ALWAYS the shippers fault. I dont care if someone steals it off the porch, the seller should have required a signature for delivery if he wasnt prepared to pay for a package that was not delivered to the buyer.

 

 

There is seller protection through Paypal if you ship to the Paypal buyer's confirmed address. This is from Paypal being owned by Ebay.

 

You are making a pretty large leap assuming that Apo got the guitar, didn't like it and then just didn't send the pedal. Didn't Apo send Putz a PM before he got the guitar saying that he had shipped the pedal? I don't understand how that equates to him not shipping it because he didn't like a guitar he hadn't seen yet.

 

He could be lying sure, but again people may have rallied behind him due to the way he worded his posts, however all those people did have good transactions with him, including a face to face trade. All of that goes a long way towards establishing integrity.

 

You are right however that the seller has to make it right if a package doesn't get to it's destination or gets there not the way it was advertised. They are both wrong in this manner since Putz did the same thing by blowing Apo off on the tuner issue.

 

You feel the dual address thing isn't a big deal, I disagree. It creates completely unnecessary confusion and shadiness into what should be a very simple deal. There is no excuse for not having your own Paypal address, I mean how lazy can you be? If he didn't have a Paypal address, he should have used some other form of payment.

 

Apo is wrong in not being able to show any proof of shipment/tracking. However, I would suggest Apo go down to the Post Office and give them his information, where the package was shipped to and the date it was shipped. They SHOULD still be able to find something out on what happened to the package. He can use that as proof of shipment.

 

I'm not saying Apo is all roses in this, because he isn't. However, Putz needed to step up and act like a mature adult instead of a spoiled child. You have to admit he comes off really really badly in this thread witht he way he responds and throws tantrums. That would make it very difficult for me to try to deal with him to come to some sort of a compromise.

 

I'm glad I haven't seen either one post here in the thread, maybe they are working it out in PMs and we just are blowing air over nothing. Either way, it's all speculation. I obviously can not say he shipped the pedals, you can not say he didn't, we just don't know. We do know putz didnt get them, we do know Apo didn't get taken care of correctly on the tuner issue either.

 

Beyond that, only the 2 of them know the real truth.

[Ibebucked]

[Clonexx]

:soapbox:



:arg:

[jnurp]

what a bull{censored} thread, you guys should be ashamed of yourselves blindly defending apor like this. He has come out looking a lot worse than the guy who hijacked multiple threads and started a bad transaction thread in the for sale section...and that is saying a lot. Apor, you are coming off as a real creep and about as untrustworthy as could be. I guess you will only be trading within your comfortable circle at this point because i can see that nobody else is going to want to do business with you in the future. Be a man and take care of your business already.

[Clonexx]

what a bull{censored} thread, you guys should be ashamed of yourselves blindly defending apor like this. He has come out looking a lot worse than the guy who hijacked multiple threads and started a bad transaction thread in the for sale section...and that is saying a lot. Apor, you are coming off as a real creep and about as untrustworthy as could be. I guess you will only be trading within your comfortable circle at this point because i can see that nobody else is going to want to do business with you in the future. Be a man and take care of your business already.

 

 

I'm not blindly defending anyone. I'm going by all the info in this thread and what it adds up to. You are making a very large leap to come to your conclusion that Apo never shipped the pedal. Just like anything I try to speculate on that wasn't disclosed, we can only assume to know what may have happened. There's no indicator to tell whether I'm right or you are. So why do you automatically put Apo at fault and not Putz? Why not both of them?

 

I also said both were at fault, because they both are. They both need to make good to the other, but that's up to them to do.

[jnurp]

I'm not blindly defending anyone. I'm going by all the info in this thread and what it adds up to. You are making a very large leap to come to your conclusion that Apo never shipped the pedal. Just like anything I try to speculate on that wasn't disclosed, we can only assume to know what may have happened. There's no indicator to tell whether I'm right or you are. So why do you automatically put Apo at fault and not Putz? Why not both of them? I also said both were at fault, because they both are. They both need to make good to the other, but that's up to them to do.

 

 

because i have been {censored}ed before and i know how puts feels when you get screwed and the person doesnt want to do anything about it. How can you let the seller get off that easy when he has NO PROOF that he even sent the item. He should send the damn guitar back and get his money back from putz, i would have suggested that from the getgo to make right on the dude not getting the pedals he supposedly sent and then once i figured out what the hell happened to the pedals i would have tried to either resurrect the deal or just move on, no harm at that point. But to avoid the guy and make him start a thread about this shows what a lowlife apor is being. This guy putz has nothing to gain from his supposed character assasination of apor. Ive been there before, and i cant stand the lazzie faire attitude about the whole thing. What is even worse than that is the blind mindless procession of idiots bashing this guy putz when they have no facts and are just sticking up for their boy. I weighed both sides and i favor the guy who seemingly got {censored}ed. i would be a lot more neutral if apor acted like he gave a {censored}, but hes the type to live on his rep here, so have fun trading with the same 8 guys you have been trading with, the rest of us know better now i guess.

[catsandstrats]

In addition, the first lie told on this thread was by Apo. He said that he sent out the pedal "weeks if not months" before the guitar was shipped. It was later revealed in PM's that if he shipped the pedal at all, it was at the earliest 2-3 days before the guitar was sent. Apo also stated that he threw out the tracking number once the item was received, but it is clear that there was already a dispute brewing days after the pedal was shipped, so throwing away the tracking number makes no sense at all.

I am not saying that Apo is a bad guy, I am just weighing the evidence, and it is clear to me. He probably does have a number of great transactions, and this might be a one time situation.....but if you take an honest look at what happened, he felt like he was getting ripped off, and decided to keep the pedal. He knew he could get away with it.

By the way, for the people talking about seller protection....what is the MAJOR component that is needed in order to take advantage of seller protection?? TRACKING NUMBERS.

[catsandstrats]

THINK ABOUT THE STORY-

APO said he sent out the pedal weeks if not months before Putz sent the guitar. He said he shipped priority, and threw out the tracking number once the item was delivered.

In a PM to Putz after the guitar was shipped, he told Putz that he should be receiving the pedal shortly??

If what APO said was true, Putz should have had the pedal before he shipped the guitar! Apo would have known that, because he had the tracking number and he threw it away after he verified delivery.....


APO is a liar. You guys can defend him all you want.

[Clonexx]

THINK ABOUT THE STORY- APO said he sent out the pedal weeks if not months before Putz sent the guitar. He said he shipped priority, and threw out the tracking number once the item was delivered. In a PM to Putz after the guitar was shipped, he told Putz that he should be receiving the pedal shortly?? If what APO said was true, Putz should have had the pedal before he shipped the guitar! Apo would have known that, because he had the tracking number and he threw it away after he verified delivery..... APO is a liar. You guys can defend him all you want.

 

 

I like how you take what Putz posted at face value like someone can't just edit a copied and pasted PM to make it say whatever they want.

 

Where I place my trust more in Apo, even though I've never even dealt with him or Putz before, you are doing the same thing with Putz. You are absolutely 100% putting your trust in Putz as if he can't possibly be lying or editing PMs to make himself look good. Right after Putz posted those PMs, Apo came in and said he doctored them and they weren't really what was said, yet you choose to absolutely believe Putz and not Apo.

 

Why?

[Clonexx]

because i have been {censored}ed before and i know how puts feels when you get screwed and the person doesnt want to do anything about it. How can you let the seller get off that easy when he has NO PROOF that he even sent the item. He should send the damn guitar back and get his money back from putz, i would have suggested that from the getgo to make right on the dude not getting the pedals he supposedly sent and then once i figured out what the hell happened to the pedals i would have tried to either resurrect the deal or just move on, no harm at that point. But to avoid the guy and make him start a thread about this shows what a lowlife apor is being. This guy putz has nothing to gain from his supposed character assasination of apor. Ive been there before, and i cant stand the lazzie faire attitude about the whole thing. What is even worse than that is the blind mindless procession of idiots bashing this guy putz when they have no facts and are just sticking up for their boy. I weighed both sides and i favor the guy who seemingly got {censored}ed. i would be a lot more neutral if apor acted like he gave a {censored}, but hes the type to live on his rep here, so have fun trading with the same 8 guys you have been trading with, the rest of us know better now i guess.

 

 

I've been screwed before too, I know how both of them feel. I don't know Apo at all, and just like you, I am going on this thread alone.

 

I don't understand why Putz is automatically right. How do you even know Putz isn't sitting on the pedals at home while stirring {censored} here? Because there's no point to it? Well, there are many things that go on in this world that are incredibly bad yet have no point. Why is it so hard to believe that Apo isn't the bad guy here?

 

Putz chased him all over the board, jumping in every single thread Apo posted in and calling him out, in OTHER people's selling threads. He's acted like a complete child and yet you feel he's the victim. You have zero evidence that Putz got screwed beyond him saying he did, yet you are 100% sure he got screwed. How is that even possible?

 

I've also already said they are BOTH wrong and both need to make good to each other. Putz for the tuner crap and Apo needs to do something for the pedals. There is a middle ground that can be reached where both of them don't lose the total amount and then they can walk away with it resolved. That's up to THEM though and seeing as neither of them has posted in this thread for days, maybe that's just what they did. Or, maybe they are both banned..who the hell knows.

[catsandstrats]

I've been screwed before too, I know how both of them feel. I don't know Apo at all, and just like you, I am going on this thread alone. I don't understand why Putz is automatically right. How do you even know Putz isn't sitting on the pedals at home while stirring {censored} here? Because there's no point to it? Well, there are many things that go on in this world that are incredibly bad yet have no point. Why is it so hard to believe that Apo isn't the bad guy here? Putz chased him all over the board, jumping in every single thread Apo posted in and calling him out, in OTHER people's selling threads. He's acted like a complete child and yet you feel he's the victim. You have zero evidence that Putz got screwed beyond him saying he did, yet you are 100% sure he got screwed. How is that even possible? I've also already said they are BOTH wrong and both need to make good to each other. Putz for the tuner crap and Apo needs to do something for the pedals. There is a middle ground that can be reached where both of them don't lose the total amount and then they can walk away with it resolved. That's up to THEM though and seeing as neither of them has posted in this thread for days, maybe that's just what they did. Or, maybe they are both banned..who the hell knows.

 

 

+1.... This much I know for sure, they both need to take your advice.

[Dark Aegis]

Im pretty sure everyone needs to shut the hell up and let this stupid thread die, theres no way you'll ever know what exactly happened.

[catsandstrats]

Im pretty sure everyone needs to shut the hell up and let this stupid thread die, theres no way you'll ever know what exactly happened.

 

 

Is that what you would want people saying if YOU were out $250?

 

This has happened to me as well, and the thing that pissed me off the most were dumbasses like you that thought the best way to react was to ignore it because it wasnt their money!

 

{censored} that.....

 

I would like to see a resolution....or at least see the people of Harmony Central help get a resolution.

 

{censored}, if the guy had been {censored}ed on eBay, we would have already started a raffle for him. But since it is Apo...who comes on here only to peddle his goods, everybody wants to ignore the problem.

 

HERE IS A HELPFUL HINT-

 

IF APO THINKS THIS INCIDENT MAY HURT HIS TRADING HERE, MAYBE HE MAY LOOK A LITTLE HARDER FOR THE TRACKING NUMBER....OR TRY TO COME TO A RESOLUTION WITH PUTZ.

 

As it stands, you goons are just making it easy to stick it to one of us, and then laughs at your dumb asses.