Counter Melody

[MorePaul]

Brent;

 

Please please please reread my previous statement

 

you are looking at end products and specific techniques without getting a sense for the underlying thought and logic behind the system as a whole.

 

you really will be doing yourself a grave disservice

[Walters9515]

well can you please give me some composers names and music that use these counter melodies , word painting , background melodies?

 

Im trying to Songwrite word painting and background melodies

how do i do this?

[MorePaul]

Once again Brent we are in the same situation here.

 

please read back over y previous posts and try to get a sense of what I'm saying there.

 

I understand, like everyone here, ou are obviousy passionate about your music and would like to extend your selection of tools and techniques with which to bring beauty into this world.

We realize and respect what you are trying to do, we are trying to help you get to the effective how , but that's the trick, you have to be willing to accept the how as it is...it's a new world for you it won't be as your old world and to learn it';s ways you must be open to its ways and approach it with an open mind and accepting perspective (as do I as I continue my explorations)

 

This can be done, but don't make it harder than it needs to be.

 

Once again, seek an instructional course or private instruction, we need to get you a foundation from which you can work and apply these various concepts

[Walters9515]

if you know what is it why can't u just explain it whats so hard about it ? i don't see the problem really

[MorePaul]

 

Originally posted by Walters9515 i don't see the problem really

 

 

Exactly!

 

by realizing that, you may very well have taken the first step.

[Chao]

 

Originally posted by Walters9515 if you know what is it why can't u just explain it whats so hard about it ? i don't see the problem really

Stop trying to assume that you know what you're talking about (and that others don't.)

 

If people can't grasp what you're saying, restate it in a different way, or read up on the topic until you can phrase it in a way that makes you sound coherent.

 

If you have to repeat yourself ad nauseum, the problem's with you and not the rest of the world.

[Walters9515]

So you don't know about word painting or background melodies then?

[Chao]

 

Originally posted by Walters9515 So you don't know about word painting or background melodies then?

I know someone that does.

 

Search wikipedia for everything you don't understand. 90% of your questions here could be answered faster and in much greater detail by doing a Wiki search.

Originally posted by MorePaul So you don't know about word painting or background melodies then? I think what Chao is saying (and please correct my Chao if I misunderstood you) isn't really about his particular knowledge of those aspects, but a comment on how you might be approaching these things.

Essentially, from the other forums Walters regularly alternates between asking very complicated questions without feeling obligated to learn the basics and then asking verrrrry simple questions that could be answered by any search engine or encyclopedia.

 

We could more efficiently assist if those items were addressed and the questions were formulated more clearly. These problems are also best solved by going out and attempting the procedures discussed, there's a lot of theoretical "what if"s that would be resolved by a hands-on approach.

[MorePaul]

So you don't know about word painting or background melodies then?

 

 

I think what Chao is saying (and please correct my Chao if I misunderstood you) isn't really about his particular knowledge of those aspects, but a comment on how you might be approaching these things.

 

If his tone seems sharp, I think we can chalk that up to simple frustration (and as people work together, these things do come up - esp in a text-based form where we don't have other cues to help us with tone).

Just as your tone shows some frustration, and admittedly, mine too.

So I believe we shouldn'tread too much into that.

I fully believe his intentions are good and his critique of approach could very well have some merit

 

 

---

 

Brent, please REREAD (not just revisit mentally, actually go back and reread) my previous comments. I believe you are misunderstanding the basic problem you are facing.

simply collecting somewhat disparate objects without an underlying structure with which to organize them can really be problematic and ultimately frustrating

[Auggie Doggie]

 

Originally posted by Walters9515 if you know what is it why can't u just explain it whats so hard about it ? i don't see the problem really

 

 

Almost every thread you start is full of questions that can most certainly be answered, and all of them have, but in books and classes, not on internet forums.

 

There are many areas of music theory and composition; each must be studied on its own and then integrated with the others. Harmony, counterpoint, form, rhythm, etc., are such areas. All of them are far too broad AND deep to be effectively explained on a message board.

 

It's like someone saying 'how do I write a fugue?' when they haven't so much as worked out basic counterpoint exercises. The latter is absolutely necessary for the former; putting the cart before the horse will only make things MUCH more difficult than they have to be.

 

My theory library is large; my sheet music library is EXTREMELY large. Almost every book that deals with the subjects you are trying to learn make countless references to actual compositions that demonstrate the concept at hand, and that means you need access to an enormous library of cd's, tapes, or records (or even midi files). All the nuts and bolts are useless if you don't hear them being applied, and also experiment and apply them yourself.

 

Needless to say (though I'm saying it anyway), you can't get all that here. You can hardly scratch the surface, no matter how many forums you use as a reference. Go to a library, a bookstore, Ebay, whatever, and find materials that are up to the task.

[Walters9515]

I didn't know word painting was so hard to explain on a message board or background melodies can't be explain in a

simple way

[Auggie Doggie]

 

Originally posted by Walters9515 I didn't know word painting was so hard to explain on a message board or background melodies can't be explain in a simple way

 

 

If it's so easy to fully explain in this medium, why don't you already know the answer to your questions?

 

Many things can be learned but not explicitly taught. Find examples of what you want to learn about and listen until you 'get it'.

[Chao]

 

Originally posted by Walters9515 I didn't know word painting was so hard to explain on a message board or background melodies can't be explain in a simple way

What do you need to know that isn't explained by wikipedia's entry on "word painting" (that you've already been referred to)?

 

Again, you can't expect to be spoon-fed everything in life. Help us help you.

[MorePaul]

I didn't know word painting was so hard to explain on a message board or background melodies can't be explain in a

simple way

 

I think the first 3 words of your statement can be of great help to you at this time.

 

As Aug, Choa, etc are saying

 

the problem (and beauty) isn't in the specific elements of which you speak, but in the approach you are taking in your attempt to learn about these

 

To use a sporting analogy, you are worrying about your swing, when really right now you may want to reconsider how you are addressing the ball

[Walters9515]

Is that all u say is get a teacher and go back to school?

whats up with that ? you said that like 50 times i heard you

the first time if you have nothing to say other than go back to

school and get a teacher then you really no help to me at all.

 

If you know what word painting and background melodies are

then just say it if not either you don't know it at all which i think

all you don't and have to bame me call me stupid which you are too for not know this information maybe you should go back to school and get a teacher instead of telling me man

[Auggie Doggie]

 

Originally posted by Walters9515 Is that all u say is get a teacher and go back to school? whats up with that ? you said that like 50 times i heard you the first time if you have nothing to say other than go back to school and get a teacher then you really no help to me at all. If you know what word painting and background melodies are then just say it if not either you don't know it at all which i think all you don't and have to bame me call me stupid which you are too for not know this information maybe you should go back to school and get a teacher instead of telling me man

 

 

Go to a library or bookstore. Read. Learn. Be your own teacher.

 

You have a computer; try google.com...try amazon.com.

 

And as for the comment in your post that I underlined, well, I think it speaks for itself, and is not likely to help convince anyone to try and answer you. If you truly want to challenge people here on what they do or do not know, be prepared to be handed your ass on a plate, with a pair of chopsticks, a spork, and a disposable napkn.

[Walters9515]

geezz great information go get a book or go to the library

Really dame i didn't know that thanks your so much help

[Auggie Doggie]

 

Originally posted by Walters9515 geezz great information go get a book or go to the library Really dame i didn't know that thanks your so much help

 

 

There are university programs (undergrad AND graduate level) that handle the concepts you keep questioning. In that respect, music is no different from other, more 'academic' fields, like science, law, and medicine (etc). That should indicate that the subject matter is more than a little too deep to cover in this medium.

 

If you REALLY want to learn, it's going to involve a great investment of time and energy on your part. Nobody can do this for you; you must do it for yourself. You'll get out of it what you put into it.

[Walters9515]

yes there is schools,books,librarys,google but there is alot message board to exchange ideas and for ppl to chat that went to school or read books to talk about what the person has posted the question or questions about the topic thats what message boards are for . Yes every one knows there is books,schools,librarys,google we are know that been there done it . Why have a message board about music theory for someone like myself that has been to school , read music books and with on google and typed counter melodies, word painting etc and didn't get that much out of it . So a message board is for the public educated or not to talk about the topic and questions

[MorePaul]

 

Originally posted by Walters9515 Why have a message board about music theory for someone like myself that has been to school , read music books and with on google and typed counter melodies, word painting etc and didn't get that much out of it .

 

 

ah, here brent, is where we, have yet another restatement of the core problem (or rather, the negative implications that make the core problem...well, problematic)

 

...didn't get that much out of it .

 

your accessing of a list of resources, much like your question about various disparate topics of technique and style - is an orientation to and a concern about the elements without regard for their relationships and the underlying structure and philosophy that gives rise to that.

 

It's not having an interest in specific elements that's problematic, it's approaching them without a strong foundatio to give them context and meaning.

 

Please Please Please reread my previous posts on the concern in these threads.

 

your frustration is apparent, unfortunately it's the APPROACH you are employing which is going to continue to generate the frustration (I know it doesn't appear that way from the inside, but remember you are asking questions, which means the answers inherently lie beyond your knowledge horizon - so it would be inappropraite and potentially damaging fr you to assume quthority as to the *nature* of the answers to your questions)

[Auggie Doggie]

 

Originally posted by Walters9515 Why have a message board about music theory for someone like myself that has been to school , read music books and with on google and typed counter melodies, word painting etc and didn't get that much out of it . So a message board is for the public educated or not to talk about the topic and questions

 

 

Message boards are great if you're trying to learn the absolute basics, or you're discussing specific, narrow topics.

 

Not every topic is within the scope of a message board. If you've read GOOD music theory books, you would understand this.

[Walters9515]

So you saying I should answer my own question based on uneducation and being uneducated?

 

I didn't know people could answer their own questions based

on Zero information or being uneducated to answer them

 

This is not the way to handle this, i posted these questions

for people that are educated or have the answers to HELP me out more and to explain to me better about this and to exchange ideas.

[Chao]

 

Originally posted by Walters9515 yes there is schools,books,librarys,google but there is alot message board to exchange ideas and for ppl to chat that went to school or read books to talk about what the person has posted the question or questions about the topic thats what message boards are for . Yes every one knows there is books,schools,librarys,google we are know that been there done it . Why have a message board about music theory for someone like myself that has been to school , read music books and with on google and typed counter melodies, word painting etc and didn't get that much out of it . So a message board is for the public educated or not to talk about the topic and questions

Why should someone spend ten minutes explaining a topic to you that any competent person could find a much more detailed explanation with google or wikipedia and a minute of their time?

 

This is a serious question, btw.

 

Just to note, if this was an isolated incident we wouldn't be bringing this up. We'd probably answer it with no issues. However you continually refer to issues that could be explained on the front page of a google or wikipedia search. That's just lazy.

Originally posted by Walters9515 So you saying I should answer my own question based on uneducation and being uneducated? I didn't know people could answer their own questions based on Zero information or being uneducated to answer them

We're saying that you have been given resources several times over that can solve your problem in greater depth without having to waste this resource, which is better off with the unasked and unanswered questions not already covered in a basic encyclopedia or websearch.

This is not the way to handle this, i posted these questions for people that are educated or have the answers to HELP me out more and to explain to me better about this and to exchange ideas.

What ideas have you exchanged lately? Your entire posting history on audio webforums revolves around needing help, not in providing any.

 

Help us help you!

[Walters9515]

Chao the serious question why don't u go on google and get a boyfriend and STOP and another STOP coming in my threads why do you post? you don't help me out at all

[Auggie Doggie]