This thread is now about moderation in general.

[FatBaron]

Originally posted by XorAxAx http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=metaphor

 

 

 

[Array]

Originally posted by Yoozer Exactly; STATE control. This forum is not a state.

 

 

Forum is a community, in this case governed by an authority. Said authority can be fascist in nature.

[Yoozer]

And you knew this, because every forum is a dictatorship - benevolent at best, tyrannical at worst.

You're a moderator yourself, Array; all the power on those CG Forums is held by a few select people where even a few more select ones can pull the plug and boot you out - and you don't have a leg to stand on.

Why'd you think it'd be otherwise here?

Also, FYI - moderators have jobs outside this thankless one. Gus is somewhere in Uruguay at the moment. Did you also consider to send an e-mail to him before launching this display of your impatience?

[Array]

Originally posted by Yoozer And you knew this, because every forum is a dictatorship - benevolent at best, tyrannical at worst. You're a moderator yourself, Array; all the power on those CG Forums is held by a few select people where even a few more select ones can pull the plug and boot you out - and you don't have a leg to stand on. Why'd you think it'd be otherwise here?

 

 

Somewhere along the line there was a coup on KSS. There's actually a whole forum out there filled with people who left because of it.

 

Contrarily, CGTalk has allways had the same rules and policies, which have allways been consistently enforced. You cant expect the people on KSS to be happy when someone new comes in and selectively enforce SOME policies. Either enforce them all or dont do anything at all.

[Paolo Di Nicolantonio]

Originally posted by G-bus

Message for G-bus:

How comes if I post a hater's PM to the forum for a valid reason, you tell me PMs should be kept private, and if Array does the same thing, you don't say anything about it? I'm quite curious.

Sounds like double measures to me.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Paolo Di Nicolantonio



??? What is uncool? That I posted somebody else's PM? The only reason he sent me a PM is because that way he could go on offending me without the other members of this thread knowing it - as you can see. That is uncool.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I disagree. And in any case, PM's should be kept private, regardless of how you choose to interpret them.


__________________
of former "Jeebus" fame...

[Array]

Originally posted by Yoozer Also, FYI - moderators have jobs outside this thankless one. Gus is somewhere in Uruguay at the moment. Did you also consider to send an e-mail to him before launching this display of your impatience?

 

 

He was clearly online when I posted the original "check your PM" thread.

[Yoozer]

Originally posted by Array Somewhere along the line there was a coup on KSS.

 

Ah, revisionism. Didn't it start with "Please deliver us from ADSR and all that political crap"?

 

 

There's actually a whole forum out there filled with people who left because of it.

 

Yes, and?

 

 

You cant expect the people on KSS to be happy when someone new comes in and selectively enforce SOME policies. Either enforce them all or dont do anything at all.

 

They've been consistent because the number of moderators has been roughly in proportion to the number of sub-forums. This wasn't the case here. Plus, the lack of mods at the start gave everyone here the idea that it's a free-for-all.

[Array]

Originally posted by Yoozer Ah, revisionism. Didn't it start with "Please deliver us from ADSR and all that political crap"?

 

 

Yeah, ummm...you guys didnt solve that. Didnt ADSR keep posting here until last week or so? All you did was lock a bunch of Korg threads...in Korg's favor no less!

 

 

Originally posted by Yoozer Yes, and?

 

 

You guys have been driving the forum into the ground.

 

 

Originally posted by Yoozer They've been consistent because the number of moderators has been roughly in proportion to the number of sub-forums. This wasn't the case here. Plus, the lack of mods at the start gave everyone here the idea that it's a free-for-all.

 

 

And it worked just fine back then too, with a few exceptions (ADSR).

[MartinHines]

Originally posted by Paolo Di Nicolantonio Message for G-bus: How comes if I post a hater's PM to the forum for a valid reason, you tell me PMs should be kept private, and if Array does the same thing, you don't say anything about it? I'm quite curious. Sounds like double measures to me.

Anyone for gum?

[Yoozer]

Originally posted by Array Yeah, ummm...you guys didnt solve that. Didnt ADSR keep posting here until last week or so?

 

Kiru dropped out soon enough. Dave banned ADSR. I can't ban people.

 

 

All you did was lock a bunch of Korg threads...in Korg's favor no less!

 

All we did was lock a bunch of threads that essentially boiled down to "Waah! The OASYS is too expensive! Waah!"

 

What's worse is that you even tried to carry this over to other forums.

 

 

You guys have been driving the forum into the ground.

 

It's still running, isn't it?

 

 

And it worked just fine back then too, with a few exceptions (ADSR).

 

It didn't work fine, because the times a moderator actually did something it was an invisible fist of God from above that couldn't be reasoned with, which didn't care.

[FatBaron]

This thread needs more boobies.

[Array]

Originally posted by Yoozer Kiru dropped out soon enough. Dave banned ADSR. I can't ban people.

 

 

I dont remember Kiru disagreeing with anyone. If anything, he probably left for the same reasons as everyone else, that being overbearing moderation.

 

And it took, what, allmost 5 years to ban ADSR? Now THAT is efficient!

 

 

Originally posted by Yoozer All we did was lock a bunch of threads that essentially boiled down to "Waah! The OASYS is too expensive! Waah!"

 

 

Who is revising history now? On several occasions, I posted links which exemplified the rational discourse around the OASYS prior to Martin and the rest of the IrishAcst crew coming over. What those threads REALLLLY boiled down to was Martin, more or less, calling everyone an idiot for not seeing the OASYS as the second coming of Christ. Of course, he had no basis for doing so, as he even later admitted that he doesnt know {censored} about synthesis and just uses his OASYS to play preset patches and Karma patterns.

 

 

Originally posted by Yoozer What's worse is that you even tried to carry this over to other forums.

 

 

More like Jerry Kovarsky and DanAtKorg brought their antics to other forums. Good things the admins there werent ready to bend over and grab their ankles for them.

 

 

Originally posted by Yoozer It's still running, isn't it?

 

 

If by running, you mean slowly devolving into the "MicroKorg vs Micron" and "Which synth has the hottest string soundz, yo" bull{censored} that we used to call "the other" forums, then yeah.

 

 

Originally posted by Yoozer It didn't work fine, because the times a moderator actually did something it was an invisible fist of God from above that couldn't be reasoned with, which didn't care.

 

 

I seem to remember this forum moderating itself quite well, except for the fact that the admins would foolishly erase all traces of ADSR threads, effectively setting the forum up for ADSR: Round X^23.

[Mike51]

They've been consistent because the number of moderators has been roughly in proportion to the number of sub-forums. This wasn't the case here. Plus, the lack of mods at the start gave everyone here the idea that it's a free-for-all.

 

 

That's blatantly incorrect. A "free for all" would indicate that foul language/situations and porn was permitted to be posted - and as anyone knows, that wasn't the case. That was enforced swiftly and wisely.

 

This new situation is crap. Keep it up and this forum goes bye-bye.

 

It's your choice.

[Yoozer]

Originally posted by Array If anything, he probably left for the same reasons as everyone else, that being overbearing moderation.

He WAS a moderator.

What those threads REALLLLY boiled down to was Martin, more or less, calling everyone an idiot for not seeing the OASYS as the second coming of Christ.

And you guys here complaining about how expensive it was, how it would go nowhere, and how Korg was really obligated to give you one for free.

More like Jerry Kovarsky and DanAtKorg brought their antics to other forums.

I distinctly remember Jeebus signing up at VSE for the sole purpose of making 3 "HELP I'M BEING OPRESSED" posts.

I also distinctly remember that there was no OASYS feud until people started coming here because they were banned on the other forum. Yes, I'm sure that's a lot of help; complain here where nobody has anything to do with it in order to rally for support.

If by running, you mean slowly devolving into the "MicroKorg vs Micron" and "Which synth has the hottest string soundz, yo" bull{censored} that we used to call "the other" forums, then yeah.

Aww, I thought you liked VSE (well, better than this place).

What the hell, I have to go to work. Have fun .

[MartinHines]

Originally posted by Array What those threads REALLLLY boiled down to was Martin, more or less, calling everyone an idiot for not seeing the OASYS as the second coming of Christ.

 

 

Array,

 

I don't think you really understand the idea of "discussion".

 

Real discussion usually includes opposing viewpoints, not just a number of people simply agreeing with your viewpoint.

 

Also, let's not get carried away with your revisionism. I never called anyone an "idiot" for not liking the OASYS.

 

 

Let's look at this thread as another example of your misunderstanding of "discussion":

-- you equated forum moderation to Fascism

-- I disagreed with you

-- you accused me of "attempting to squash all dissent"

[Array]

Originally posted by Yoozer He WAS a moderator.

 

 

Perhaps he had a disagreement with the "higher powers"?

 

 

Originally posted by Yoozer And you guys here complaining about how expensive it was, how it would go nowhere, and how Korg was really obligated to give you one for free.

 

 

When did we ever say any of those things? Our conclusion was that one would do a service to themselves if they had purchased $8500 worth of gear instead of blowing it all on one piece of kit. Of course, Martin and his ilk stormed this forum saying that the OASYS was the greatest synth ever. When asked to prove it, he just resorted to straw man tactics and argued ad hominem until you mods stepped in and closed it, effectively squashing all dissent regarding the OASYS. Where exactly am I or Mike51, or anyone else at fault here? Is rational discussion no longer allowed when it comes to all things Korg?

 

 

Originally posted by Yoozer I distinctly remember Jeebus signing up at VSE for the sole purpose of making 3 "HELP I'M BEING OPRESSED" posts.

 

 

And this incriminates me how?

 

 

Originally posted by Yoozer I also distinctly remember that there was no OASYS feud until people started coming here because they were banned on the other forum. Yes, I'm sure that's a lot of help; complain here where nobody has anything to do with it in order to rally for support.

 

 

What are you talking about?

 

 

Originally posted by Yoozer Aww, I thought you liked VSE (well, better than this place).

 

 

I was specifically referring to FutureProducers.com, but hey, if you think so lowly of VSE, be my guest.

[Array]

Originally posted by MartinHines Array, I don't think you really understand the idea of "discussion". Real discussion usually includes opposing viewpoints, not just a number of people simply agreeing with your viewpoint. Also, let's not get carried away with your revisionism. I never called anyone an "idiot" for not liking the OASYS. Let's look at this thread as another example of your misunderstanding of "discussion": -- you equated forum moderation to Fascism -- I disagreed with you -- you accused me of "attempting to squash all dissent"

Oh please, people have asked you adress many points in the past, and you simply ignored them and built up straw men instead. How exactly is that condusive to rational discussion?

You have yet to prove to anyone how the synths in the OASYS make it better than anything before it. You wouldnt even do this spec wise, let alone in terms of sound quality.

Regarding squashing all dissent, it is a fact that you would purposefully act to get OASYS threads closed once they would inevitably turn anti-Korg (much by your effort in the first place).

In terms of Fascism, yes, closing a thread and saying that a certain "mood" has to be enforced sure sounds pretty fishy to me.

Hows that for adressing all points? You should try it some time!

[Mike51]

And you guys here complaining about how expensive it was, how it would go nowhere, and how Korg was really obligated to give you one for free.

 

 

 

False again, Yoozer.

 

I swear you were the head writer for the Blossom sitcom. You have a real knack for that kind of drama.

[Mike51]

In terms of Fascism, yes, closing a thread and saying that a certain "mood" has to be enforced sure sounds pretty fishy to me.

 

 

 

 

It sounds like something " the Others" would do on Lost, lol.

[MartinHines]

Originally posted by Array Our conclusion was that one would do a service to themselves if they had purchased $8500 worth of gear instead of blowing it all on one piece of kit.

 

Yes, you are entitled to presesnt your opinion

 

 

Originally posted by Array Of course, Martin stormed this forum saying that the OASYS was the greatest synth ever.

 

Yes, I am equally entitled to present my opinion.

 

 

 

Originally posted by Array until you mods stepped in and closed it, effectively squashing all dissent regarding the OASYS.

 

The moderators stopped the "OASYS wars" because they were tired of the same viewpoints being presented over and over and over again (both pro and con viewpoints). In fact, the major "parties" (myself included) were threatened with permanent banishment if we didn't stop.

[G-bus]

Originally posted by Paolo Di Nicolantonio Message for G-bus: How comes if I post a hater's PM to the forum for a valid reason, you tell me PMs should be kept private, and if Array does the same thing, you don't say anything about it? I'm quite curious. Sounds like double measures to me.

Not at all. I don't feel Array was right in posting PMs either, but in this particular case, the shock of Gus's actions have outweighed and overpowered my feelings towards public PM postings.



But since you mention it, Array.. PM's really should be kept private.

[Mike51]

The moderators stopped the "OASYS wars" because they were tired of the same viewpoints being presented over and over and over again (both pro and con viewpoints). In fact, the major "parties" (myself included) were threatened with permanent banishment if we didn't stop.

 

 

 

You mean like analog versus digital? Mac versus PC? Softsynths versus hardware? We have heard all the angles in those debates many, many more times than we did the Oasys debate.

 

There are a million tired rehashed arguments all across the net. At least the Oasys argument was new, lol!

 

Anyone who got laid on at least a bi-yearly basis would hardly care about net arguments that didn't involve excessive language or offensive material. A corporation bought the site, and they brought over generic, vanilla corporate mods from their other corporate forums to run it.

 

The truth is, Guitar Center and Musicians Friend are being labeled as overtly PC and cranky because of they way they are treating the nets most classic forum. Thousands of users see their overtly PC behaviour here and are turned away from shopping at those locations.

 

If they are worried about mood, here is the mood that is being created:

 

Corporate coldness, Uber-political correctness. Neophyte atittudes and an almost Disney land mentality.

 

I think the mood they are trying to go for is the indie record shop, with all the cool vinyl, and the cool owners who let you hang out, talk tunes,argue bands, etc.

 

They couldn't be further off the mark.

[Array]

Originally posted by MartinHines Yes, you are entitled to presesnt your opinion

 

 

You sure havent been very "tolerant" of this opinion in the past. By the time you showed up, people have pretty much laid the OASYS topic to rest. I.E. it looked interesting, but it wasnt for them. Of course, then you and your buddies stormed the place and defended it tooth and nail, having never seen one in person before.

 

 

Originally posted by MartinHines Yes, I am equally entitled to present my opinion.

 

 

What exactly is this opinion based on? Extensive experience with other synthesizers? Extensive experience with the synthesizers found inside of the OASYS? Hardly. You admitted "no" to this yourself.

 

I remember you even tried to BS us by saying that the touch screen LCD on the OASYS cost as much as a Triton LE. What a load of crap that was, but it served as an example of how you attempted to convey your "opinion" about the OASYS as dogma.

 

 

 

Originally posted by MartinHines The moderators stopped the "OASYS wars" because they were tired of the same viewpoints being presented over and over and over again (both pro and con viewpoints). In fact, the major "parties" (myself included) were threatened with permanent banishment if we didn't stop.

 

 

No, they stopped them because you would work yourself up into a frenzy and then build up straw men and argue ad hominem.

 

Also, you failed to adress the points which were presented previously in this thread. Where is your rational discourse now?

[MartinHines]

Originally posted by Array Oh please, people have asked you...etc.

 

 

Array,

 

I think the subject of the pros and cons of the OASYS has been sufficiently covered in this forum.

 

Why do you keep bringing up the OASYS?

 

-- just yesterday you dredged up an 18-month old OASYS topic. Why???

 

-- somehow you managed to bring up the OASYS (again) in this topic. I thought your original post was about why a Moderator didn't respond to your PM?

[Array]

Originally posted by MartinHines I think the subject of the pros and cons of the OASYS has been sufficiently covered in this forum.

 

 

Well here is your chance to lay it all to rest and present them in an organized and coherent manner.

 

 

Originally posted by MartinHines Why do you keep bringing up the OASYS?

 

 

Actually, you happened to chime in on this thread. It actually had a lot to do with you though, as the OASYS is at the forefront of the ridiculous moderation policies which have been enacted here, which in turn cuased a LOT of the people who made this site so great in the first place to leave.

 

 

Originally posted by MartinHines -- just yesterday you dredged up an 18-month old OASYS topic. Why???

 

 

Because I was searching the forum for Chick Korea threads, and that one somehow popped up. I was just agreeing with Mr. Potatohead's point in that thread.

 

 

 

 

Originally posted by MartinHines -- somehow you managed to bring up the OASYS (again) in this topic. I thought your original post was about why a Moderator didn't respond to your PM?

 

 

I've allready adressed this.