Muse vs Radiohead ...

[TIKILOCKEDOUT]

Originally posted by Uma Floresta I'm not sure really where either of them were drawing inspiration from, initially. I recall reading about Yorke's love for bands like Sonic Youth and The Pixies early on, but obviously his vocals sound nothing like them. I do like Jeff Buckley -- more so than Muse.

 

 

Funny thing is I like Yorke as a fella ... seen him interviewed many times and I like him personally - I like the RH boys as people no question. It's the hype also that follows these bands and when people start pronouncing god like talent on mortals I start to get antsy ... I think RH are very talented guys but I just don't dig allot of what they do .

[TIKILOCKEDOUT]

Originally posted by stereotypy it's tim buckley!! jeff buckleys dad. was a great guitar player/singer, too!!

 

 

Absolutely ... the LA album is a killer.

[Uma Floresta]

Originally posted by TIKIROCKER They probably didn't bump into one another but it's possible they heard eachothers material ... speculation anyway so it's not worth pursuing. My only point is that the style and singing of RH, Muse and Buckley is similar and it's not my favourite anyway. I thought Buckley really had something that the others just never had ... a shame he died before we could see where he might have taken things.

 

 

His style was much jazzier and subtler, to be sure. Radiohead are/were more experimental, and initially much more "college rock." I think Radiohead and Jeff Buckley were both quite unique. Muse isn't unique though. They're Radiohead redux.

[TIKILOCKEDOUT]

Originally posted by Uma Floresta His style was much jazzier and subtler, to be sure. Radiohead are/were more experimental, and initially much more "college rock." I think Radiohead and Jeff Buckley were both quite unique. Muse isn't unique though. They're Radiohead redux.

 

 

I don't disagree that Muse owe much to Radiohead - that's actually clear from the start - the irony for me is that I prefer some of Muse's material to allot of RH's ... and I must say I don't love either band and nor do I own their albums.

[Brian Marshall]

Originally posted by TIKIROCKER Brian .. whats your point here? Your trying to spin another discussion off from an example I have made in order to promulgate a non argument. Ok, yes ... they never stopped - that's what I don't dig about Radiohead either - the aping of Buckley that's so obvious. If we are choosing between the lesser of two evils then Muse get my vote - I can bare them a little better - it's all whinge singing anyway!

 

 

perhaps im just not focused enough in what im saying.... My point is, almost all music comes from somewhere. Look at all those bands you totally respect that you think are SO original, and they all had influences. Short of the synthesizer, and maybe turntables the most rock/pop music hasnt changed the tools it uses much in the last 50 years.

 

anyways, originality doesnt always make great music... I mean i could make an entire album samples of a cows digetstive track and feedback loops... that doesnt mean anyone will like it.

[Uma Floresta]

Originally posted by TIKIROCKER I don't disagree that Muse owe much to Radiohead - that's actually clear from the start - the irony for me is that I prefer some of Muse's material to allot of RH's ... and I must say I don't love either band and nor do I own their albums.

 

 

Okay.

[TIKILOCKEDOUT]

Originally posted by Brian Marshall perhaps im just not focused enough in what im saying.... My point is, almost all music comes from somewhere. Look at all those bands you totally respect that you think are SO original, and they all had influences. Short of the synthesizer, and maybe turntables the most rock/pop music hasnt changed the tools it uses much in the last 50 years. anyways, originality doesnt always make great music... I mean i could make an entire album samples of a cows digetstive track and feedback loops... that doesnt mean anyone will like it.

 

 

I can't think of any band that sounded like Killing Joke's first album in 1979 or even prior to it ... it was from deep space - sorry. There are many bands that were doing stuff that was actually VERY original and putting a new spin on something old but they really pioneered something new that was allot more difficult to trace - I mean nothing sounded like Gary Numan's first album swamped in fat moog back in 1980 either ... I and many others who lived at the time can testify to that ... it was really something very new.

 

I understand your point about music and almost anything having a source of inspirations even if only for a brief moment - surely we can't escape that but there are originals out there and there are people who take influences and digest them properly so that instead of regurgitating something immediately familiar they have the talent to bring something new and unique to the table.

[endo23]

Tiki, this convo has become utterly confusing...

Buckley and Yorke were contemporaries, and despite this category of "whinge" singing you've created, they don't sound all that alike. ESPECIALLY later on (when you suggest Yorke took some influence from Buckley), as Yorke intentionally shied away from sounding "pretty" post-The Bends. Compare "Fake Plastic Trees" to "Let Down" or "Kid A" for an example of what I'm talking about... I think this was largely because so many imitators were springing up on the continent and Yorke wanted to distance himself from the radio-friendly likes of Travis, Coldplay et al.

I think there's obvious "aping" of a style-- e.g. Scott Stapp trying to mimic Eddie Vedder-- and then there's stylistic similarity. I'd say Buckley and Radiohead operate in similar stylistic spheres-- "grandiose rock"-- and the soaring vocals, use of falsetto, etc. might mean they resemble each other, but it's coincidence, not imitation. If Radiohead ripped anyone off in the early days, it was U2.

As far as your Nirvana comments, I again fail to understand your need to categorize two bands who make rock 'n roll as "copies" of one another, with one being the genuine article and the other some kind of cheap imitation. Nirvana and Killing Joke???!!! GTFO. Yes, Nirvana is a punk band and there are only so many power chords on a guitar neck. But the reason they broke through is that Cobain penned some seriously catchy songs, and that's what separates the big boys from the regional faves and the one-hit wonders. And again, if you're going to accuse Nirvana of being derivative, at least point to the bands they actually copped from, like The Pixies. And for what it's worth, I've never heard a vocalist who sounds like Kurt.

[TIKILOCKEDOUT]

Originally posted by endo23 As far as your Nirvana comments, I again fail to understand your need to categorize two bands who make rock 'n roll as "copies" of one another, with one being the genuine article and the other some kind of cheap imitation. Nirvana and Killing Joke???!!! GTFO. .

 

 

Nirvana ripped off 80's by Killing Joke on Come as you are ... yes they did and I was going to add Pixies Debaser also which Cobain admitted to trying to rip when he wrote "teen spirit".

 

How old are you by the way?

[#16]

Originally posted by TIKIROCKER Seems to be allot of Amazon reviewers that would disagree with that and I can hear the similarities myself actually.

I am with you on this one!
AND the most blatant rip of a song ever....Killing Joke getting ripped by Nirvana.

[TIKILOCKEDOUT]

Originally posted by adolf I am with you on this one! AND the most blatant rip of a song ever....Killing Joke getting ripped by Nirvana.

Wow great ... another shephard rather than a sheep!

[endo23]

How old are you by the way?

 

28.

 

Yes, I'm familiar with the tune, but one riff does not equate with "fakeness" to me--

 

Again, you can say Zeppelin or the Stones jacked old blues riffs non-stop and you'd be right, but the presentation and the interpretation of the players makes all the difference. And it discounts the originality those bands brought to their later albums. Same with Nirvana.

 

And I see NO CORRELATION between Cobain's ragged howl and ludicrously catchy melodies and the rather fey, Brit-pop vocals of Killing Joke. No one would EVER mistake the two bands for one another, even though you've got a chip on your shoulder about one track.

 

Fer feck's sake, get over it! I'm starting to suspect you're just a bitter old man.

[TIKILOCKEDOUT]

ahhh you clearly don't know much about killing Joke ... what albums have you heard? This bitter old man would love to know.

[endo23]

I never claimed to know much "much" about Killing Joke-- I'm familiar with their first two albums (one of which YOU cited above) and a smattering of other tracks I've downloaded in the past (e.g. "Eighties")-- just as you are apparently only "familiar" with the two bands this thread was originally about.

So you can take your sunglasses off, old timer! You still haven't told me who Kurt Cobain sounds like, and I'd LOVE TO KNOW!

[TIKILOCKEDOUT]

Originally posted by endo23 I never claimed to know much "much" about Killing Joke-- I'm familiar with their first two albums (one of which YOU cited above) and a smattering of other tracks I've downloaded in the past (e.g. "Eighties")-- just as you are apparently only "familiar" with the two bands this thread was originally about. So you can take your sunglasses off, old timer! You still haven't told me who Kurt Cobain sounds like, and I'd LOVE TO KNOW!

Ok so you know the self titled Killing Joke album from 1979 do you? And you call Jaz Colemans singing Fey???? OMFG!

As to Cobain ... he sounds like any number of lead singers from the 80's L.A Punk rock scene ... lead singer of Circle Jerks Keith for one!

[TIKILOCKEDOUT]

I'll give you some more time to look it up at amazon and listen to the track so you can familiarize yourself with it shall I?

[SpectralJulian]

Originally posted by TIKIROCKER Oh you'd have to do a search on a discussion Brian and I had one night re Nirvana - it's too long to get into again. I grew up during the first wave gen of Punk in London during the 70's ... Nirvana were nothing new to me or anyone else from my generation and I saw them for what they were ... a covers band. They covered more songs than you'd care to think about - or just wore their influences on their sleeves too much - that was sad to me, real sad. Fer instance ... go find 80's by Killing Joke and then play Come as you are side by side and tell me what you notice.

 

 

Oh, you grew up in London in the 70's, that just makes you so superior! And everyone from your generation saw Nirvana for what they were? How would you know that?

 

The cool people from your generation saw 70's punk for what it really was- a rehash of 1960's american garage rock. Think of how many covers those 70's punk bands played! My god! You know what though? 70's punk rockers had their own feel unique to them thrown into the equation. That made it more than just a 2nd garage wave. Yeah, so Nirvana played quite a bit of covers. So what? So did the Sex Pistols. But just like the Sex Pistols, Nirvana had their own feel.

 

Nirvana was hook oriented noise punk. The first band of that kind. There songs all had a certain sound to them. Sure they were similar to the Wipers, but you would never confuse a wipers song and a nirvana song.

 

Anyways, you are comparing radiohead and muse. Two overproduced, pretentious, overglorified, indie bands from england still trying to cash in on the British invasion which they have failed to realize died sometime in the 80's.

[Uma Floresta]

Originally posted by SpectralJulian Anyways, you are comparing radiohead and muse. Two overproduced, pretentious, overglorified, indie bands from england still trying to cash in on the British invasion which they have failed to realize died sometime in the 80's.

 

 

Radiohead's last four or five albums sound nothing like anything from the "British invasion."

[rickenvox]

Originally posted by amanonfire the real argument is germs vs weirdos the weirdos were far superior in my opinion.

 

 

did you ever see the weirdos?

[SpectralJulian]

Originally posted by TIKIROCKER Nirvana ripped off 80's by Killing Joke on Come as you are ... yes they did and I was going to add Pixies Debaser also which Cobain admitted to trying to rip when he wrote "teen spirit". How old are you by the way?

 

 

So what? Iggy Pop wrote a lot of his chord progressions and riffs fooling around on other people's songs (he does play guitar, just not live), so did Jimmy Page.

 

Debaser and Smells Like Teen Spirit sound different anyways.

[SpectralJulian]

Originally posted by Uma Floresta Radiohead's last four or five albums sound nothing like anything from the "British invasion."

 

 

You completely failed to see my point. By British invasion, I'm referring to how from about 1963 and into the 1980s, British bands dominated in the mainstream and the alternative (although in the late 70's NYC thrived, and in the 80's DC thrived.)

 

After America completely took over music once again, music promoters kept trying to promote bands to American consumers and started really overhyping them. These bands would include: Oasis, Radiohead, Muse, Arctic Monkeys, and Coldplay.

[TIKILOCKEDOUT]

Whatever ... I'm over arguing with people for tonight - it's been a fun chat though as usual and for me beats the {censored} out of many of the inane threads on the page. If we have arrived at an impasse or new understanding of one another then let that be the marker for today - pretty sure we'll return to this again in due course.

I'm happy to let others think what they want and I'll be sticking to my story too ... no prisoners and no converts as usual.

[mr benn]

radiohead formed in 1989.
and thom yorke sounds far more neil young to me than jeff buckley

and people shouldn't make broad statements like only us in the US understood the significance of nirvana,it makes you look silly!

thom yorke's lyrics are on the whole quite vitriolic,caustic and yet extremely funny in a very black sense,there's far more thought to his lyrics than most other bands i've listened to
just do search for some of the sites that try to unravel the meaning to his songs,there's layers of mystical references,political quotes,religious iconography loads of stuff hidden to discover

[Uma Floresta]

Originally posted by SpectralJulian You completely failed to see my point. By British invasion, I'm referring to how from about 1963 and into the 1980s, British bands dominated in the mainstream and the alternative (although in the late 70's NYC thrived, and in the 80's DC thrived.) After America completely took over music once again, music promoters kept trying to promote bands to American consumers and started really overhyping them. These bands would include: Oasis, Radiohead, Muse, Arctic Monkeys, and Coldplay.

 

 

Shame on British bands for trying to succeed! What a bunch of wankers! Don't they know that being from England is clearly passe?

[SpectralJulian]

Originally posted by Uma Floresta Shame on British bands for trying to succeed! What a bunch of wankers! Don't they know that being from England is clearly passe?

 

 

No, shame on the music industry for the way that british bands are being marketed to dumb americans who remember that england used to actually put out good bands and desperately want that revived because music has been in such a lull for the last 10 or so years.

 

Just look at NME's thing that put the Arctic Monkeys in the top 5 "british records."

 

It has become assumed by many Americans that brits just have more musical talent, in both mainstream and alternative circles.

 

Music promoters know this, british alternative bands like Muse and Radiohead get money poured into them hoping to cash in on these notions, so they go into fancy pop studios and make highly produced, highly compressed, boring-ass sounding records.

 

Not that every band from England sucks, just that the ones that are getting indie and major label record deals do.