Members amp_surgeon Posted September 22, 2008 Members Share Posted September 22, 2008 Circuit changes: My first impression was that this circuit doesn't really need a quad op-amp. The top two op-amps in the schematic are wired up as unity gain buffers. They're just buffering the FET and capacitor, which are the REAL sample-and-hold circuit. The bottom two op-amps are wired up as a square wave LFO with a very short duty cycle to toggle the FET. This could be simplified by using a CMOS hex inverter. A digital inverter is really just a unity gain analog amplifier without the differential input. They can be used as buffers, or ganged up to make an oscillator. The resulting circuit would require fewer parts than the op-amp based circuit. Reducing the number of resistors and such won't make a big difference in the price, but it will cut down on the time needed to build it. Just to give you a basis for comparison, it takes 1/2 hour to stuff and solder a six transistor SuperFuzz PCB. That's 25 hours to stuff 50 of them. It would be good if we can get the time required to stuff this board down to no more than 10 minutes. A CMOS chip will run just fine on 9V. It will still need a voltage ladder to provide a DC offset to the signal. People involved: Since this is a community project, I think we should involve the community as much as possible, rather than just focus on a few people. While one person could be responsible for a specific task, his work could be presented online for feedback, suggestions, and online collaboration. There should be one project coordinator - someone who isn't involved in any other aspect of the design and building of the pedals. Their job is to keep a view on the big picture, and make sure the different collaborating groups are in sync with each other. Ok, so I would be willing to accept the job of lead engineer. I'll design a S&H based on the Colin Raffel circuit, and I'll test it on a protoboard. If it works, then I'll post the schematic in an "HCFX pedal engineering" thread. Anyone else will be free to make suggestions or whatever, but at least one other engineer should also wire one up and test it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members melx Posted September 22, 2008 Members Share Posted September 22, 2008 Circuit changes: My first impression was that this circuit doesn't really need a quad op-amp. The top two op-amps in the schematic are wired up as unity gain buffers. They're just buffering the FET and capacitor, which are the REAL sample-and-hold circuit. The bottom two op-amps are wired up as a square wave LFO with a very short duty cycle to toggle the FET.This could be simplified by using a CMOS hex inverter. A digital inverter is really just a unity gain analog amplifier without the differential input. They can be used as buffers, or ganged up to make an oscillator. The resulting circuit would require fewer parts than the op-amp based circuit. Reducing the number of resistors and such won't make a big difference in the price, but it will cut down on the time needed to build it.Just to give you a basis for comparison, it takes 1/2 hour to stuff and solder a six transistor SuperFuzz PCB. That's 25 hours to stuff 50 of them. It would be good if we can get the time required to stuff this board down to no more than 10 minutes.A CMOS chip will run just fine on 9V. It will still need a voltage ladder to provide a DC offset to the signal.People involved: Since this is a community project, I think we should involve the community as much as possible, rather than just focus on a few people. While one person could be responsible for a specific task, his work could be presented online for feedback, suggestions, and online collaboration.There should be one project coordinator - someone who isn't involved in any other aspect of the design and building of the pedals. Their job is to keep a view on the big picture, and make sure the different collaborating groups are in sync with each other.Ok, so I would be willing to accept the job of lead engineer. I'll design a S&H based on the Colin Raffel circuit, and I'll test it on a protoboard. If it works, then I'll post the schematic in an "HCFX pedal engineering" thread. Anyone else will be free to make suggestions or whatever, but at least one other engineer should also wire one up and test it. I'd be happy with all of that...sounds like a good plan....in fact I'd be quite excited about having one of these. I think the only concern I have is about who's collecting the money, it would have to be someone we can all trust.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jrkirkish Posted September 22, 2008 Members Share Posted September 22, 2008 ^ amp_surgeon the banker? And by the way, _surgeon, we want clipz! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Let It Burn... Posted September 22, 2008 Members Share Posted September 22, 2008 we should have an artwork forum too so that every interested forumite submit his artwork and then we'll chose the winning one with a poll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jaron Posted September 22, 2008 Members Share Posted September 22, 2008 Circuit changes: My first impression was that this circuit doesn't really need a quad op-amp. The top two op-amps in the schematic are wired up as unity gain buffers. They're just buffering the FET and capacitor, which are the REAL sample-and-hold circuit. The bottom two op-amps are wired up as a square wave LFO with a very short duty cycle to toggle the FET.This could be simplified by using a CMOS hex inverter. A digital inverter is really just a unity gain analog amplifier without the differential input. They can be used as buffers, or ganged up to make an oscillator. The resulting circuit would require fewer parts than the op-amp based circuit. Reducing the number of resistors and such won't make a big difference in the price, but it will cut down on the time needed to build it.Just to give you a basis for comparison, it takes 1/2 hour to stuff and solder a six transistor SuperFuzz PCB. That's 25 hours to stuff 50 of them. It would be good if we can get the time required to stuff this board down to no more than 10 minutes.A CMOS chip will run just fine on 9V. It will still need a voltage ladder to provide a DC offset to the signal.People involved: Since this is a community project, I think we should involve the community as much as possible, rather than just focus on a few people. While one person could be responsible for a specific task, his work could be presented online for feedback, suggestions, and online collaboration.There should be one project coordinator - someone who isn't involved in any other aspect of the design and building of the pedals. Their job is to keep a view on the big picture, and make sure the different collaborating groups are in sync with each other.Ok, so I would be willing to accept the job of lead engineer. I'll design a S&H based on the Colin Raffel circuit, and I'll test it on a protoboard. If it works, then I'll post the schematic in an "HCFX pedal engineering" thread. Anyone else will be free to make suggestions or whatever, but at least one other engineer should also wire one up and test it. maybe we could get the crowd from the meet n greet to help/meet to throw around ideas? i know nothing about building pedals so it would be nice to see the process or do some other help if i could Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members melx Posted September 22, 2008 Members Share Posted September 22, 2008 ^ amp_surgeon the banker?And by the way, _surgeon, we want clipz! also if there are serveral people involved in building, painting etc, you'll have to decide what's a fair cut of the cash for everyone involved and whoever collects the cash will effectivley have to pay the other people. it not really a problem but I guess it will need to be decided at some point before it all happens....firstly someone will have to build it and come up with a realistic price....we don't want it to end up like a zvex where the paint job is costing us half the cost of the pedal do we? flashy paint jobs are nice but if we have to pay someone to paint them for hours it's gonna be pretty expensive no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members freeridstylee Posted September 22, 2008 Members Share Posted September 22, 2008 Let me know if there's anything anyone wants me to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members letsgocoyote Posted September 22, 2008 Members Share Posted September 22, 2008 simplifying that sample rate reducer ought to be the way to go. is amp surgeon actually going to build it? if not, then who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members melx Posted September 22, 2008 Members Share Posted September 22, 2008 simplifying that sample rate reducer ought to be the way to go. is amp surgeon actually going to build it? if not, then who? I think he's just going to design and proto it.......so.....Eric... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Let It Burn... Posted September 22, 2008 Members Share Posted September 22, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members melx Posted September 22, 2008 Members Share Posted September 22, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members amp_surgeon Posted September 22, 2008 Members Share Posted September 22, 2008 Clipz: Once I've built a working prototype then I'll make a video demo and upload it. Price: I don't really think anyone should profit from this. The purchase price should be whatever it costs to build it and ship it. Build: I think we should use printed circuit boards. Point-to-point wiring on perfboard will take too long. With NRE charges included, it will cost about $7 per board to have 50 PCB's made at expresspcb. That's assuming no silkscreen or solder mask are needed. We only need to make one or two "homemade" boards to verify that the PCB layout works. Collecting money: This is where it get's messy. It will definitely be easier for everyone if one person collects the money. However, if that one person is also responsible for buying all of the materials then they would have to ship those materials to the various people responsible for building the different parts; PCB's, enclosures, etc. That's a lot of extra shipping. Maybe one person could collect the money, and then distribute it to the people who will be doing the actual work so that they can purchase materials directly. Tourbox?: If there's not a huge hurry to get the final pedals finished and shipped, we could build a couple of working prototypes and send them around in tourboxes for everyone to try. They can then make suggestions for improvements, and get actively involved in the ongoing development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TZR Posted September 22, 2008 Members Share Posted September 22, 2008 something along these lines maybe? wait.. where have i seen a pedal with one knob and a footswitch that's spawned off a forum before.. hmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members freeridstylee Posted September 22, 2008 Members Share Posted September 22, 2008 Well I think as of now we need to get together a spreadsheet listing the parts + enclosure/painting costs to get a base cost of the product. Then we will need to estimate shipping and probably do some research as to keep shipping costs to a minimum. As for labor costs, I think we can find people willing to do it out of the good of their hearts. We will then need to probably add on an extra "in case {censored}" cost just in case more funds are needed (its easier to refund 50 people with paypal then to ask for 6 more dollars from 50 people mid project). Also with this and all not-for-profit endeavors I think full disclosure of all use of funds/activities is a necessity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Saturnine10 Posted September 22, 2008 Members Share Posted September 22, 2008 I am so down with this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tommyld Posted September 22, 2008 Members Share Posted September 22, 2008 I think the only concern I have is about who's collecting the money, it would have to be someone we can all trust.... If the pedal's good/cool... ...I'd volunteer to handle the ordering process / payment and "distribution"! Let me know! --Tom info@FuzzHugger.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Taylor. Posted September 22, 2008 Members Share Posted September 22, 2008 I'll buy one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members melx Posted September 22, 2008 Members Share Posted September 22, 2008 wait.. where have i seen a pedal with one knob and a footswitch that's spawned off a forum before.. hmm... wat?it might have 3 knobs I dunno...I only did one because of the 'one knob delay' idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lewisb21 Posted September 22, 2008 Members Share Posted September 22, 2008 I have no idea how to help. but i want one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members amp_surgeon Posted September 22, 2008 Members Share Posted September 22, 2008 I don't know if anyone is interested, but I wrote an 8-bit Nintendo game for Acclaim back in 1989 called "Swords and Serpents". I still have some of the original graphics by Todd Camasta.The barbarion:The bat:The ogre:The skeleton:The warrior:The "weird" monster:The wizard:The zombie:There were other monsters in the game, but some of the old floppies have become unreadable over the years. I could probably also salvage some of the dungeon graphics for a background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NetStar Posted September 22, 2008 Members Share Posted September 22, 2008 wat? it might have 3 knobs I dunno...I only did one because of the 'one knob delay' idea... Haunting Mids?Do I win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members letsgocoyote Posted September 22, 2008 Members Share Posted September 22, 2008 My OPINIONS: I think whoever is involved in actually making these get built should be able to make some profit off doing so. It's actual work! After doing all those Melxowtones I can tell you this. However, I don't think there should be any crazy mark up to the point of makign the pedals dumb expensive. It would be cool to split up the work too, but if it get's split up too much, that could be bad. If your having to ship things back and forth it's pretty pricy. That said: I think Tommy @ fuzz hugger would make a great 'project manager' it's exactly what he already does, and if he is willing and has time he would do great. I think it's rad for amp surgeon to design the circuit. The sample rate reducer is perfect, its simple with one knob, the circuit wont be too complex, and its super unique yet still useful. I think the best thing to do is definitely build it on PCBs, $7 is a modest fee for how it will speed up build time. I think there could be two builders. One who stuff's PCB's, and one person who builds/wires up the boxes. The person who builds the pcb's can just pack em all up on one flat rate box and mail them to the the person who will wire them up in the enclosures. Shouldnt add to mucht ot he costs shipping wise. I would be willing probably to wire up boxes, and perhaps take care of the decoration as well. I will soon be set up with screenprinting equipment! (theres always the label method as well). Here's what I see as a price break down for the parts(rough off the top of my head estimates): -Enclosure $6 -Footswitch $5 -DC Jack .75 -LED .25 -Audio Jacks 3.00 -Pot 1.00 -knob $1 -PCB $7 -Componenents $5 About $30 roughly in parts. Perhaps cheaper, but lets say $30. I can tell you about how much work it would be, time wise: 10 mins - Drill Enclosures 10 mins - Mount jacks, switch, pot, and knob 20 mins - wire box for bypass At least thats how long it takes me. That doesn't include decoration/labeling. I am still waiting on my screenprinting equipment to come in, but right now I think I coudl estimate another 10 minutes for printing per pedal, plus the time to ship pedals and such.... I would estimate a total of 1 hours worth of work. Plus whatever work it is for someone to build the PCB. In short, what I am saying is, I'm willing to volunteer to do work, but if I do I'd like to be compensated somehow. I'm not trying to get people saying im lame for saying that, and im not trying to be greedy either (just have rent to pay!) but I think people involved with building the pedals should be compensated. those are my OPINIONS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kyrreca Posted September 22, 2008 Members Share Posted September 22, 2008 I'd love one of these on a pedal. The skeleton: The "weird" monster: The zombie: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members letsgocoyote Posted September 22, 2008 Members Share Posted September 22, 2008 im probably a jerk for wanting money. maybe theres soneone out there who can do it for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onyxrhino Posted September 22, 2008 Members Share Posted September 22, 2008 im probably a jerk for wanting money. maybe theres soneone out there who can do it for free. No, it's totally fair to get paid for the labor involved in making 50 or so of these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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