No effects loop in your amp?? What do you do??

[TomCTC]

But if that's the case, I can't see a lot of reason to be anally retentive about the amp you use, so there's not much reason to avoid an effects loop in the first place. There are plenty of amps with great clean channels that take pedals well, but a loop keeps your options open to use amp dirt which is still superior to pedals to most people if they listen without any preconceptions.

 

Of course there is. Clean channels vary just as much as distortion channels. Different components, speakers, tubes, and cabinet sizes all play a part in the interaction with dirt/fuzz pedals, and how your stuff is going to sound. Of course, it depends how "anally retentive" you are to begin with and what sounds you prefer. But without getting all Zachman on this, I definitely do agree that amp distortion sounds richer, but is not often the "end all" for my guitar sounds.

 

But if you want something like an Orange Rocker 30 then 99% of people will want it because of the drive channel. And then you're stuck with time effects before dirt, or having a separate wet amp, both of which are pretty shit options IMO.

 

Case in point: Avoid Rocker 30's at all costs.

[TomCTC]

 

But without getting all Zachman on this

 

 

AHHHHHH too late!

[IvIark]

 

Why, because of more gear to move or because it sounds better in 99.9% of cases, when done well.

 

 

The first of course. I agree totally that if you want to get the best from an amp with no loop then wet/dry is the way to go , no question. But not many people will want to either carry two separate amps and extra speaker(s) to a small gig, or go to the expense of doing that when they can take the easy option and just put everything preamp. The effects loop is the compromise but a good one.

[IvIark]

 

Of course there is. Clean channels vary just as much as distortion channels. Different components, speakers, tubes, and cabinet sizes all play a part in the interaction with dirt/fuzz pedals, and how your stuff is going to sound. Of course, it depends how "anally retentive" you are to begin with and what sounds you prefer. But without getting all Zachman on this, I definitely do agree that amp distortion sounds richer, but is not often the "end all" for my guitar sounds.

 

 

So there are lots of intricacies to these clean channels and then the majority of the people in this forum put 27 pedals in front of them and use a Crunchbox or OCD 80% of the time? And then saturate the lot with 4 delay pedals and a couple of reverbs to get de ambientz. You must have good ears to hear the intricacies after all that.

[TomCTC]

 

So there are lots of intricacies to these clean channels and then the majority of the people in this forum put 27 pedals in front of them and use a Crunchbox or OCD 80% of the time? And then saturate the lot with 4 delay pedals and a couple of reverbs to get de ambientz. You must have good ears to hear the intricacies after all that.

 

 

That's not even close to what I said, Bon Jovi.

 

You think an OCD is going to sound the same through a Deluxe Reverb as it is through a Bassman? Or an AC30? Marshall Superbass? No.

Every clean channel/rig configuration is going to vary. So people can still be picky if they're not using the coveted "amp dirt" for their main sound.

[IvIark]

That's not even close to what I said, Bon Jovi. You think an OCD is going to sound the same through a Deluxe Reverb as it is through a Bassman? Or an AC30? Marshall Superbass? No. Every clean channel/rig configuration is going to vary. So people can still be picky if they're not using the coveted "amp dirt" for their main sound.

 

Ooh that one was really cutting. You'll have to be careful with something like "Van" in your username or I may come back with something equally witty

 

The point is that despite differences between clean channels, it's not like differences in dirt channels. You can buy a number of amps that give you a "sparkly clean" and a lot of bases can then be covered by EQ. With dirt channels there are a lot more boxes that need to be ticked. If anyone is truly that anally retentive about a "must have clean channel" then the effect forum probably isn't the best place for them, because most people here seem to spend most of their waking moments looking for new toys to change it. Which is emphasised of course by your admission that people will use delay and reverb before the amp because they use their amp simply to make things louder.

[jorhay1]

how hard is it to just make a mod?

 

seems pretty simple, at least conceptually.

 

take the preamp out, wire it to a jack, same with the power amp in

 

my amp tech said it was not easy and not cost effective

and that i should never bring it up again (at least for my hd-130)

 

[jorhay1]

that line out box is cool zach

 

thanks

[jorhay1]

my countryman has a speaker input

 

could i run an amp speaker out into that

and then go back to the speaker through the amp out of the contryman?

 

http://www.countryman.com/store/product.asp?id=52&catid=10

[Zachman]

 

The first of course. I agree totally that if you want to get the best from an amp with no loop then wet/dry is the way to go , no question. But not many people will want to either carry two separate amps and extra speaker(s) to a small gig, or go to the expense of doing that when they can take the easy option and just put everything preamp. The effects loop is the compromise but a good one.

 

 

I am in TOTAL agreement w/ that-- which is why I use a Boogie MKIII for my gigs that I only use a few things.

[Zachman]

how hard is it to just make a mod? seems pretty simple, at least conceptually. take the preamp out, wire it to a jack, same with the power amp in my amp tech said it was not easy and not cost effective and that i should never bring it up again (at least for my hd-130)

 

[Zachman]

 

my countryman has a speaker input could i run an amp speaker out into that and then go back to the speaker through the amp out of the contryman? http://www.countryman.com/store/product.asp?id=52&catid=10

 

 

Do you mean use a DI box as a load converting circuit to send your now Low Z signal to effects to reamp through another amp? If so yes, you could, but I don't know how nice it'd sound.

 

If you use it to feed the signal back into the same amp's power amp in jack, I would think you'd likely experience a gnarly ground loop, but I've never tried doing that--so perhaps someone else can share some info on the idea.

[smrz]

I just run my delay/chorus/flange out in front of my amp, which isn't crystal clean, by any means. It makes it just a little muddy, but it's really not that big of a deal, unless you're looking for a super polished sound. I actually have an effects loop, just never use it. If you really want one, though, adding it shouldn't be all that hard.

[FiveIron]

do you use pedals for your drive?

[smrz]

 

do you use pedals for your drive?

 

 

You can see my rig in my sig. That Carvin is a JCM Clone. It's definitely got some dirt, especially with the humbucker'd guitar, which is the one I've been using almost exclusively these days. For more gain, I have a BYOC RAT too. I don't use the dirt channel of the Carvin, because it sounds like crap...I've never really been one for dirt channels anyway.

[jorhay1]

 

Do you mean use a DI box as a load converting circuit to send your now Low Z signal to effects to reamp through another amp? If so yes, you could, but I don't know how nice it'd sound. If you use it to feed the signal back into the same amp's power amp in jack, I would think you'd likely experience a gnarly ground loop, but I've never tried doing that--so perhaps someone else can share some info on the idea.

 

 

i meant

 

amp speaker out>DI thru>speaker cab

and

DI Low Z out to either another amp (wet) or mic in on console

[Zachman]

 

i meant amp speaker out>DI thru>speaker cab and DI Low Z out to either another amp (wet) or mic in on console

 

 

Yes you can do that.

 

That is similar to what Michael Landau and Larry Carlton do.

 

Landau (For his studio rig) mics his dry cab and sends that signal into a Chandler mic preamp, feeds his rack gear and sends the stereo rack signals direct to the console.

 

Carlton does that live and sends the rack signal to 2 Powered cabs JBL Eons.

[Zachman]

 

I just run my delay/chorus/flange out in front of my amp, which isn't crystal clean, by any means. It makes it just a little muddy, but it's really not that big of a deal, unless you're looking for a super polished sound. I actually have an effects loop, just never use it. If you really want one, though, adding it shouldn't be all that hard.

 

 

To the OP, be aware that NOT all loops are equal, so... while it may not be so difficult to do, doing it right/well-- may be more of a pain then some may lead you to believe, because done poorly-- your amp can become noisey, or the added loop can alter your amp's original tone enough that it bothers you.

[jorhay1]

 

Yes you can do that. That is similar to what Michael Landau and Larry Carlton do. Landau (For his studio rig) mics his dry cab and sends that signal into a Chandler mic preamp, feeds his rack gear and sends the stereo rack signals direct to the console. Carlton does that live and sends the rack signal to 2 Powered cabs JBL Eons.

 

 

 

thank you zachman!

 

(Chandler mic preamp-the germanium I assume?)

[petejt]

 

If your amp doesn't have an effects loop and you have, lets say, a reverb pedal, would you just stick it in the pedal chain or what? My amp doesn't have an effects loop but my board does (powered furman board) so I don't have that problem yet, but it that may be a factor in the 'new pedal board' decision.

 

 

Well, you can do two things.

 

 

-Use the pedal in front of the amp

 

 

-Use the pedal AFTER the amp, via a Slave Out connection on the amp, or use a THD Hotplate that has a Line Out connection (set to Load), or get a Line Mixer (e.g. Custom Audio Electronics) that accepts the load (speaker) signal from your amp and converts it to a line level signal. Run that Line Level signal to your effect (e.g reverb pedal), and then run that to a poweramp and its speaker.

 

The second choice can be cumbersome as you have to re-amp your signal.

[petejt]

In fact I am doing the same thing at the moment.

 

I run one of the speaker outputs of my Engl Fireball to the Hotplate, then that Line Level signal to a stereo effect and its outputs to my Roland Jazz Chorus 120 combo amp for the re-amping.

[petejt]

 

The first of course. I agree totally that if you want to get the best from an amp with no loop then wet/dry is the way to go , no question. But not many people will want to either carry two separate amps and extra speaker(s) to a small gig, or go to the expense of doing that when they can take the easy option and just put everything preamp. The effects loop is the compromise but a good one.

 

 

Definitely.

 

 

I'm trying out the whole wet/dry thing now that my dream rig is almost finally together, but for gigging situations I'm just going to stick to using the effects loop of my MarkIV for when I do want those effects.

 

 

Or instead, just take the Fireball & JC120 combo amp, and a THD Hotplate. That way I do get effect processing after the Fireball (rather than effects loop), and it gets re-amp'ed by the JC120.

[Ming Chow]

Throw it in front and make it sound good.

[Zachman]

thank you zachman! (Chandler mic preamp-the germanium I assume?)

 

Not sure about the circuit design, but here it is-- you probably know jsut by looking at it.

 

[Zachman]

 

Throw it in front and make it sound good.

 

 

Sometimes that works well... Truth, you can't polish a turd