Members mueller Posted December 3, 2010 Members Share Posted December 3, 2010 Just to chime in here - I believe when you're dead, you're dead. You cease to exist. The bible verses that lead me to believe that are Ecclesiastes 9:5,10. From my understanding, Ecclesiastes talks about reflections of an old man ("the Preacher"). The whole book is him basically questioning the meaning of life and concluding in the futility of chasing even good things here on earth (wisdom, work, pleasure, wealth) but rather encouraging people, especially young people, to fear the Lord and remember him and keep his commandments. It's just saying that you can't take anything with you when you die, and eventually things are forgotten about you on earth. Your spirit is most definitely still alive. 12:7 says (NIV): "and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it." I'm no theologian or anything. I believe the bible is true, I'm just trying to understand what it says. Is my analysis here off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ryan. Posted December 3, 2010 Author Members Share Posted December 3, 2010 Kinda funny how mostly there are just two sides. Nothing happens or heaven/hell. No one says, "I'll probably be transported to another universe to live as a completely different lifeform. (One based on arsenic?) Over at the devi forum one person said this: "I plan on being re-incarnated as an AMS Phaser." Not bad I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ben_allison Posted December 3, 2010 Members Share Posted December 3, 2010 Yes Ecclesiastes is written from the point of view of a "character" (a jaded, humanistic one) and is not entirely to be taken as a commentary or description of actual content of Jewish or Christian theology. I'm not sure requiring evidence in the classic sense is appropriate, or should be expected. Of course it's your right to refuse a claim in the lack of such evidence, but what evidence would one possibly hope for? A 5-star hotel orbiting around Alpha Centauri? eMails from uncle_gord42@heaven.org? A belief in the afterlife (as shaped by the doctrine of a given religion) stems from a deeper belief Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cryptosonic Posted December 3, 2010 Members Share Posted December 3, 2010 I can see your argument, but I would raise you the golden rule. I believe that morality could come from the effort to survive. I do not want to be killed, so I will not kill. I do not want to be robbed, so I will not rob. I don't think hedonism is the end game from a lack of spirituality. Seriously. Morality aside it is my belief in the fundamental rights of others that keeps me from hurting people, rather than any spiritual belief. It is the instinct of self preservation that prevents me from devolving into pure hedonism. I prefer to be held personally accountable for my actions. It is the 'Not of this World' folks that worry me. Renouncing any bond to this world because it is just a necessary step on the path to ultimate spiritual reward is to me dangerous and irresponsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Poltergeist Posted December 3, 2010 Members Share Posted December 3, 2010 I don't follow your logic, the only thing that you know does exist, is the life you're living at this moment.the only life you can live is the life at this moment.i do not know exactly what comes after, but i can have a perception of what it is. i cannot give you evidence but i can only say i have felt that it exists throughout what i have lived. and this is not even an argument, it is a feeling i cannot express. that's why i make music, really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crxsh Posted December 3, 2010 Members Share Posted December 3, 2010 I'm no theologian or anything. I believe the bible is true, I'm just trying to understand what it says. Is my analysis here off? Me either, but I think you're on the right track with this. It's all part of the process that I described in my earlier post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Poltergeist Posted December 3, 2010 Members Share Posted December 3, 2010 Kinda funny how mostly there are just two sides. Nothing happens or heaven/hell. No one says, "I'll probably be transported to another universe to live as a completely different lifeform. (One based on arsenic?)Over at the devi forum one person said this: "I plan on being re-incarnated as an AMS Phaser."Not bad I guess. That which is above is as that which is below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ryan. Posted December 3, 2010 Author Members Share Posted December 3, 2010 By the way... the talk of evidence is really a non-issue. I think its wonderful that someone can find a personal relationship with god/jesus/their own spirit/a ying yang/etc... I love my girlfriend... but if you asked for evidence my hands would be empty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Poltergeist Posted December 3, 2010 Members Share Posted December 3, 2010 It is the 'Not of this World' folks that worry me. Renouncing any bond to this world because it is just a necessary step on the path to ultimate spiritual reward is to me dangerous and irresponsible. i understand that point. and i agree. in the end, if you are in a path to enlightenment, everything you do is as important as anything else. as a moral human being, i do things you believe to be the right choices because i hold Good as a value itself, not as a portal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoboPimp Posted December 3, 2010 Members Share Posted December 3, 2010 however, there is anecdotal evidence stemming from near death experiences which suggest that there may be something after death. certainly isn't testable in a scientific way, but is some evidence. true, evidence that as your brain is deprived of oxygen you hallucinate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Poltergeist Posted December 3, 2010 Members Share Posted December 3, 2010 By the way... the talk of evidence is really a non-issue. I think its wonderful that someone can find a personal relationship with god/jesus/their own spirit/a ying yang/etc... I love my girlfriend... but if you asked for evidence my hands would be empty. exactly. in my this life my God is music. i say this because i know there is a balance bigger than all of us and i call that God, and i say this to all religions, or doctrines, whatever. in every religion Gods and Devils are symbols that there is balance in all things. and i feel closer to feeling that balance envolved with me when i listen to beautiful music than with anything else. and music also holds no evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crxsh Posted December 3, 2010 Members Share Posted December 3, 2010 Kinda funny how mostly there are just two sides. Nothing happens or heaven/hell. There are lots of different views. Islam, Christianity, Jehovah's Witness, Mormonism, Christian Science, Spiritualism and Baha'i believe in heaven/hell-type scenarios... though the latter three are more states of mind or conditions, rather than actual places. Hindu's, Buddhists, New Agers and those who subscribe to Hare Krishna all believe in various forms of cyclical/endless reincarnation (until enlightenment). And some religions reject hell entirely and only believe in heaven... the Unification Church, Scientology, etc. Perhaps those two options are just the most "western" though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marmoset King Posted December 3, 2010 Members Share Posted December 3, 2010 Do mice have an afterlife? ... do worms have an afterlife? ... do whales have an afterlife? ... do apes have an afterlife? We are animals, nothing more, highly evolved primates. No one believes any of the above go to a fantastical afterlife to join up with their ancestors, or go to a place of suffering either. They just cease to be. They die, they decay. We are mammals, upright walking apes, part of the primate family, in all probability the same happens to us. This is not sad thing or a bad thing, our lives are brief, make the most of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Poltergeist Posted December 3, 2010 Members Share Posted December 3, 2010 true, evidence that as your brain is deprived of oxygen you hallucinate VSOT - an hallucination is not simply an unreal thing, it is the contact of your mind with a reality that you cannot reach in a "normal" condition. some people say they took Ayahuasca and kissed the lips of God, and were in the mouth of the Devil. i believe them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members manchester Posted December 3, 2010 Members Share Posted December 3, 2010 i believe you either go to heaven or hell. i think immediately after your death, you're given a chance to look back on your life, in a more vivid form of a dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members H.P. Lovecraft Posted December 3, 2010 Members Share Posted December 3, 2010 I don't know what happens after but I think that we should all live life to the best of our abilities and enjoy as much of it as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brebis Posted December 3, 2010 Members Share Posted December 3, 2010 Remember how it was before you were born? It will be the same when you're dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ben_allison Posted December 3, 2010 Members Share Posted December 3, 2010 Do mice have an afterlife? ... do worms have an afterlife? ... do whales have an afterlife? ... do apes have an afterlife?We are animals, nothing more, highly evolved primates. Simple intuition tells us that this is false; yes, we're made of the same stuff, but clearly, our language, manipulation of the natural world, subjugation of the very fabric of reality, the presence of consciousness... it is very plain that we, as a species, are not slightly different than other animals, but are completely and entirely different in many ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Reauchambeau Posted December 3, 2010 Members Share Posted December 3, 2010 Do mice have an afterlife? ... do worms have an afterlife? ... do whales have an afterlife? ... do apes have an afterlife?We are animals, nothing more, highly evolved primates. No one believes any of the above go to a fantastical afterlife to join up with their ancestors, or go to a place of suffering either. They just cease to be. They die, they decay. We are mammals, upright walking apes, part of the primate family, in all probability the same happens to us.This is not sad thing or a bad thing, our lives are brief, make the most of it. apparently Siberian tigers go to heaven because I've seen Jehovah's Witness (bibles?) that depict a happy family sitting in a lush garden paradise, petting tigers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ryan. Posted December 3, 2010 Author Members Share Posted December 3, 2010 If I were to believe in a western afterlife, I'd have the hardest time with hell. Eternity in the worst place imaginable does not align with justice and the thought of an all knowing and all loving God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jesse G Posted December 3, 2010 Members Share Posted December 3, 2010 My dad has died and been revived twice, so I asked him what happens when you die. "Nothing" he said. Story checks out. And when people say they had "spiritual encounters" on drugs the whole thing's moot because they were tripping balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lucid origami Posted December 3, 2010 Members Share Posted December 3, 2010 The idea of being anywhere for an eternity - even heaven - sounds like hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members melx Posted December 3, 2010 Members Share Posted December 3, 2010 Simple intuition tells us that this is false; yes, we're made of the same stuff, but clearly, our language, manipulation of the natural world, subjugation of the very fabric of reality, the presence of consciousness... it is very plain that we, as a species, are not slightly different than other animals, but are completely and entirely different in many ways. no... that's simply not true...... well no truer than saying a dolphin is totally different to an eagle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ben_allison Posted December 3, 2010 Members Share Posted December 3, 2010 Even between Shay Maria's boobies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Poltergeist Posted December 3, 2010 Members Share Posted December 3, 2010 If I were to believe in a western afterlife, I'd have the hardest time with hell. Eternity in the worst place imaginable does not align with justice and the thought of an all knowing and all loving God.here's something i found on YT i think you would find beautiful it has 5 parts.[YOUTUBE]pFWsqCVjkVQ&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]Narrated by Leonard Cohen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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