Members ProDigit Posted April 23, 2011 Members Share Posted April 23, 2011 So I've been looking for a best multi effects pedal, cheap, for saxophone, but I believe it also applies to vocals or piano/synth! So far ebay, amazon and musiciansfriend show 4 brands of pedals under $100, that have an expression pedal. 1- Behringer 2- Zoom 3- DeltaLab 4- Digitech I am mainly looking for an effects pedal for clean sound. I don't care about cab sim, fuzz, buzz, distortion and all that. Just reverb, a bit of chorus, eq, and volume, with an expression pedal next to it, like this one!: I found that Behringer's reverbs sound metallic, because they are processed in 24bit. ZOOM and Digitech's also get processed in 24 bit, but one of the two compensates this by increasing the sampling frequency (96kHz, 24 bit), the other by using a DA/AD converter of 32 bit, and do reverb processing at 24 bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ProDigit Posted April 23, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 23, 2011 DeltaLab caught my attention, since it uses 32bit DA/AD conversion, so far their manual does not say in how many bits the reverb is calculated. (I wrote them but haven't heard from them since). So far, I'm struggling a bit to choose between the bass or the guitar pedal.Usually guitars have frequencies between 80Hz and 2kHz.Basses use frequencies between 30Hz and 6kHzSoprano saxes use frequencies between 200Hz and 6kHz.Tenors between 100Hz and 6kHz Since guitars don't really need any frequency above 2kHz (aside from fret noise that does not get amplified anyway, because guitar rigs don't have tweeters), and basses generally have more clean settings with effects, I tend to believe that I should go with the bass effects processor.I've done some youtubing, and reading up on some reviews, and believe out of all these brands the DeltaLab has good electronics, superior sound quality to the other brands, is made smaller, but also weaker (plastic shell); it has an easier patch editing system, and looks way nicer.I think of buying this pedal board! Anyone can still give me some valid arguments to change my opinion?I have not A/B-ed these pedals so I don't know if all reviews and vids I've seen gave me somewhat a correct image of the differences between these devices? I wish I could try before buying them. Ow, and one final question:You think it's possible with an adaptor plug to plug in a vocal mic?Or you think the signal will be too low? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Amigo Posted April 23, 2011 Members Share Posted April 23, 2011 M9 with an expression pedal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Poltergeist Posted April 23, 2011 Members Share Posted April 23, 2011 M9 with an expression pedal definitely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ProDigit Posted April 23, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 23, 2011 sorry guys, but that pedal is $400.I'm looking more into sub $100 pedals :-/ Besides, it's so large! I mainly need to enable/disable reverb/room reverb, and change the volume. An EQ will be a welcome extra... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zappa74 Posted April 23, 2011 Members Share Posted April 23, 2011 [video=youtube;RI0K-ABVpcQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI0K-ABVpcQ&feature=related Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Amigo Posted April 23, 2011 Members Share Posted April 23, 2011 sorry guys, but that pedal is $400.I'm looking more into sub $100 pedals :-/Besides, it's so large! I mainly need to enable/disable reverb/room reverb, and change the volume. An EQ will be a welcome extra... An m5 ? Not sure if it has an expression pedal input, I don't use these all in one effects units, but people rave about them. It's worth it to save up for quality, cheap gear ends up being expensive in the long run. The really good thing about these m units is tha you can synce everything to react with the expression pedal at the sane time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hangwire Posted April 23, 2011 Members Share Posted April 23, 2011 An issue too will be the need for an instrument as well as a xlr input for vocal stuff Maybe get the vocal multifx stuff- I know digitech made a purple one- they go for very cheap too. That might speak to quality too though... I never had luck with traditional patch style multis myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ProDigit Posted April 23, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 23, 2011 @Amigo: What makes you say Deltalab is not a quality gear? @Hangwire: I have an XLR to Jack converter plug, so the pedalboard does not need an XLR input.You probably mean the digitech RP255 ? (It's black but under a wrong light may seem purplish...I've noticed Digitech has 24 bit sound encoding, the same as Behringer. On itself it would suffice, but not for a high quality reverb, where artifacts of lower bit encoding are being reverbed too, and you get a metallic-ish reverb sound. That's not so good!For all other effects, 24 bit DSP is quite enough. I've seen the Zoom does 32 bit processing, but with 24bit AD/DA conversion. The opposite from the DeltaLabs (I presume).It looks more ugly, but costs less (I can get the Zoom for $30 less, but don't want to spend $70 on something that may have issues).. A race between the Zoom and the deltalabs... The deltalabs has a 4 band eq, the zoom a 3 band eq... Need more researching... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members xraylemur Posted April 23, 2011 Members Share Posted April 23, 2011 ^^ nah he was talking about the really purple digitech pedals. These are actually designed for what you're talking about. They were called the vx300 and vx400. You should probably look into those used. Or they have the vocal 300 now for $199. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hangwire Posted April 23, 2011 Members Share Posted April 23, 2011 ^ yup, plus possible impedance issues with a non active xlr converter into a bass multi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 DeltaLab caught my attention, since it uses 32bit DA/AD conversion, so far their manual does not say in how many bits the reverb is calculated. (I wrote them but haven't heard from them since). I'm an audio engineer. I can talk bits with the best of 'em, but I think you might be over-thinking it somewhat. Once you have a decent set of 24 bit A/D - D/A converters (and even the cheap stuff sounds half-way decent these days), you're usually fine for most inexpensive guitar multi-effects. You don't need 56 bit internal processing and 32 bit converters. IMHO, the sound quality of the sub-$100 class of units is as much, if not more a function of the supportive analog circuitry of the units, as well as the quality of their DSP and algorithmic programming. In other words, 24 bit is generally just fine; you're not getting the most high precision algorithms they make, or the best hardware. Oversampling? Yeah, nice. Good Nyquest filters is more important to that side of things IMO. 96 kHz? Yeah again - nice. But we're getting into areas where I doubt most people could hear much - if any difference. 24 bit has a theoretical noise floor of 144 dB. Most converters - even the top of the line studio grade stuff that we use on records, is only doing ~120dB in terms of noise. In other words, the current converters can't exceed 24 bit's capabilities. And you're not getting anywhere near that with a $100 guitar multi-effect pedal. While there are some advantages to using 32 bit or high sample rates, they should not be your sole or even primary concern IMO. No one's going to notice the tiny levels of noise we're talking about. Remember that 0-144 dB is roughly like the tiniest sound you can perceive in a silent room vs a jet engine at full power at 50' distance from you. Threshold of hearing to threshold of pain. HUGE dynamic range. So far, I'm struggling a bit to choose between the bass or the guitar pedal. Usually guitars have frequencies between 80Hz and 2kHz. Basses use frequencies between 30Hz and 6kHz Soprano saxes use frequencies between 200Hz and 6kHz. Tenors between 100Hz and 6kHz Since guitars don't really need any frequency above 2kHz (aside from fret noise that does not get amplified anyway, because guitar rigs don't have tweeters), and basses generally have more clean settings with effects, I tend to believe that I should go with the bass effects processor. First, let's talk about "guitar frequencies". No offense, but I disagree with your 2kHz limit. Most guitar amp speakers top out in the 5-6kHz region. If we're discussing acoustic guitar, overtones go on up and up... you appear to be looking only at the fundamental frequencies of the notes in the instrument's range... but again, most instrument timbres have a complex series of harmonics and overtones; strip those away and you lose that instrument's identity. You're trying to do a bunch of things as inexpensively as possible, and the jobs you have in mind would be better served by two different pedals... but if one is all you have the budget for, you have to look towards the one that makes the most sense for your primary instrument. If that's sax, or vocals, then you need to get something with a mic input. You can't just run a mic level (output from the microphone) straight into most pedals - the impedance is often wrong, and the levels are usually too low. You'll end up with a noisy signal, and probably blame it on the unit only being 24 bit. Anyway, sax and vocals have similar needs in terms of effects and input - you pretty much have to use a mic with both of them... so any unit that is designed to work with one should work reasonably well with the other. Guitar / bass? You can use bass effects with guitar, and guitar effects with bass. Sometimes it works fine, and sometimes certain effects seem to only sound their best with one or the other. If you play guitar more often than bass, then get a guitar processor and use it with your bass as needed. If you play bass more often, get a bass processor, but understand that it may not always work as well for guitar as a dedicated guitar processor. But for what you want (primarily clean tones), it does remain a reasonable option. I've done some youtubing, and reading up on some reviews, and believe out of all these brands the DeltaLab has good electronics, superior sound quality to the other brands, is made smaller, but also weaker (plastic shell); it has an easier patch editing system, and looks way nicer. I think of buying this pedal board! I've never tried that particular pedal, so I can't say either way... But again... balance out your priorities. Are you taking it out to gigs every night? Then the plastic housing might be an issue. Are you careful with your gear and play mostly at home? If so, then other things - like a easy to use editing system - are of greater importance. Anyone can still give me some valid arguments to change my opinion? I have not A/B-ed these pedals so I don't know if all reviews and vids I've seen gave me somewhat a correct image of the differences between these devices? I wish I could try before buying them. That's always best - but not always possible. If you can't try before you buy, at least make sure you buy from someone with a good return policy in case you find out you hate the unit you selected. Ow, and one final question: You think it's possible with an adaptor plug to plug in a vocal mic? Or you think the signal will be too low? Answered earlier. I'd recommend one effects unit for guitar and bass, and a second for sax and vocals. There might be a multieffect pedal that sells for $100 or less out there with both a mic and line / instrument input, but if there is, I'm not aware of it. Adapters would allow you to "get the signal into" the device, but they don't change the impedance, level, etc. If you want to do those connections "right", you need to get some transformers (direct boxes, etc.) and adapters / cables, and at that point, you're starting to eat into money you could have used for that second effect unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bujar Posted February 18, 2012 Members Share Posted February 18, 2012 dear friendsI have seen people in my country playing sax with zoom g2.1 nu effects...I bought one but all patches seams to be for guitars ..does anyone knows how to make a good patch for saxophone..thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bujar Posted February 23, 2012 Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 hi so that means nobody knows what kind of patch to use for SAX thx... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members B.S.Jansen Posted February 23, 2012 Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 You just revived a thread from 2011. Good job. And no one here cares about saxamophones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bujar Posted February 23, 2012 Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 What about the named thread: Best multi effects pedal for sax/piano/synth/vocals WITH expression pedal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fusion1 Posted February 24, 2012 Members Share Posted February 24, 2012 I actually use a Digitech RP255 with sax. It works ok but you do need to run into a mic preamp first to mae the conversion from mic XLR to instrument 1/4" and also from mic to line levels which the mic preamp will do. I just use a cheap ART MP-1 with the stoc 12AX7 tube replaced with a lower gain 12AU7. Recently our band got a pair of the QSC K12 powered speakers and a Yamaha mixer so I've been just going from sax> Wireless transmitter> ART MP-1 mic preamp > Yamaha mixer> QSC K12s. The reverbs in the Yamaha mixer sound much better than the RP255 reverbs no doubt about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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