Members Fender&EHX4ever Posted August 7, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 7, 2012 I'm pretty lenient with money... I'd rather give a little on my end to avoid a fight, but when people take advantage I just start seeing red and will walk away from a deal. I used to be this way also, but lately I can't afford it. There's just too many people and organizations now who want to abuse my good-nature. Hence this vent thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fender&EHX4ever Posted August 7, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 7, 2012 as a broad sweeping generality (IOW, there are a few exceptions), insurance companies, lawyers, and politicians are just a nearly imperceptible step above organized crime syndicates on the social scumbag scale. Haha, hallelujah!!! Great advice as well. And as you already said, the time spent to hold organizations accountable is costly, and depending on what other priorities I am putting aside to deal with, it can be more costly than what I spent with them. If this was a once or twice a year incident, I probably wouldn't have started this thread. But it seems rampant now... no exaggeration. It's almost as if we should just expect to be cheated now, and those of us who aren't doing the same should be ashamed of ourselves for being weak and vulnerable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pbone Posted August 7, 2012 Members Share Posted August 7, 2012 I work retail, which is a chimera itself. On the one hand, they are trying to offer quality at low cost, which is nice, but my job is to take every {censored}ing single cent I can get out of you before you leave the store. Retail is the devil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fender&EHX4ever Posted August 7, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 7, 2012 Maybe it is you? Maybe it is. Not exactly sure what to change though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fender&EHX4ever Posted August 7, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 7, 2012 I work retail, which is a chimera itself. On the one hand, they are trying to offer quality at low cost, which is nice, but my job is to take every {censored}ing single cent I can get out of you before you leave the store. Retail is the devil. I'm not surprised, but I haven't had any retail confrontations lately. I usually stay out of those places if I can just buy it cheaper online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ispunk Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 I'm at this point with Hello Music. I think half the things they have "for sale" are just to draw you to their site. They really have no intentions of actually delivering some of that stuff. Called yesterday and got the run around. Will be cancelling my order very soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tedmich Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 its Karma dude! You peed ur bed. Actually every business is emulating the returns of the new economy titans like Goldman Sacks. The old semi-fair margins will not cut it when your $/employee ratio needs to approach infinity...Remember when Insurance companies didn't have billion dollar ad budgets? Where does that $ come from?? Out of the customers HIDE! the conventional US business model has to approach open theft to compete with the imaginary economy, which only has losses they can pass on to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Texas Noise Factory Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 Some of it I'm not sure how to deal with yet. At least with eBay I can submit a case against the seller. With some organizations it helps to submit a case to the BBB, though not a guarantee that the resolution will be satisfactory. Online forums are a great place to vent (ahem), but not a very direct form of accountability. Beyond that, it's rarely enough $ that would make it cost-effective to get a lawyer involved. And the police have bigger fish to fry. They're trying to track down mass-murderers and s**t. Ahh, gotcha. I usually use the "f*ck me once and if you do, then f*ck off" concept. Some businesses I just won't deal with. There's that whole thing about not worrying about trying to change things that you have no influence over. I sometimes find it very hard not to be paranoid in this day and age. Just have to be vigilant about watching your own ass all the time I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members I Play Um Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 You dont have to fight ...but sometimes you might want to. Most of the time its a waste so why bother. Customer service is mostly dead. Ask a question the person you ask might not even speak your language. Not unusal for sales people to just point and grunt. No product knowledge. I have politely complained about things in the past only to be told ..shop elsewhere. Mostly what bugs me is there is no concern many times that I've spent my hard earned money on something ...which contributes to the existance of these businesses as well as the pay checks of the uncaring employees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fender&EHX4ever Posted August 8, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 I have politely complained about things in the past only to be told ..shop elsewhere. Mostly what bugs me is there is no concern many times that I've spent my hard earned money on something ...which contributes to the existance of these businesses as well as the pay checks of the uncaring employees. My most recent experience with this involves Public Storage. I went into it 2 years ago not knowing that they raise rates every year. I asked them why they want to risk losing my steady payments to them, and they said that my payments are already well below market value. Yet, it is obvious they have a glut of empty units So I Googled "raising rent on public storage" and I found forums dedicated to public storage franchise owners. They basically have the attitude that it is more profitable to raise rates on loyal customers because the cost of losing them is less than the gain of collecting extra from those who don't leave. So once again, we live in a society where we should just expect that profit is the only thing that really matters. Decency, loyalty, justice, fairness, telling the truth, etc? Forget it, those are qualities for the weak and vulnerable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Will Chen Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 My most recent experience with this involves Public Storage. I went into it 2 years ago not knowing that they raise rates every year. I asked them why they want to risk losing my steady payments to them, and they said that my payments are already well below market value. Yet, it is obvious they have a glut of empty units So I Googled "raising rent on public storage" and I found forums dedicated to public storage franchise owners. They basically have the attitude that it is more profitable to raise rates on loyal customers because the cost of losing them is less than the gain of collecting extra from those who don't leave. So once again, we live in a society where we should just expect that profit is the only thing that really matters. Decency, loyalty, justice, fairness, telling the truth, etc? Forget it, those are qualities for the weak and vulnerable. Just playing the devil's advocate, but my question would be when ever in the history of the world has it been the duty of a business to do anything except turn a profit? That is the very core of what a business is and what allows growth. I would suggest it is not a function of our society, but society ad infinitum and that perhaps you are simply awakening to that idea. I would argue with how easy access to information is our modern society that it is better than ever for consumers to research companies/politicians/services prior to giving them your business/endorsement to prevent being taken advantage of. Of course, even with all that sometimes our options boil down to picking the lesser of two evils... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cirrus Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 So once again, we live in a society where we should just expect that profit is the only thing that really matters. Decency, loyalty, justice, fairness, telling the truth, etc? Forget it, those are qualities for the weak and vulnerable. Two similar areas where this happens; mobile phone contracts and car insurance. In my 7 years of driving this is the first time I've had the same insurace provider for two years in a row, because in every other instance I've got the best deal one year then the next the price massively increases. Last year my premium doubled. I called and tried to work out why, making the point that I had a year's more experience as a driver and my car was worth less than it was the year before. They just said they couldn't give me a better price and offered to cancel the policy, which I took them up on. Same with Mobile contracts. It seems to be that since everyone's looking for a bargain now, they try to hook people with cheap prices then hope they won't bother to move a year later when the price skyrockets. I'd rather find a company that doesn't piss me off and stick with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members I Play Um Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 Just playing the devil's advocate, but my question would be when ever in the history of the world has it been the duty of a business to do anything except turn a profit? That is the very core of what a business is and what allows growth. I would suggest it is not a function of our society, but society ad infinitum and that perhaps you are simply awakening to that idea. I would argue with how easy access to information is our modern society that it is better than ever for consumers to research companies/politicians/services prior to giving them your business/endorsement to prevent being taken advantage of. Of course, even with all that sometimes our options boil down to picking the lesser of two evils... I would agree your right...do your own research..become your own advacate. But.....if I'm buying something...and once in awhile I get great service from knowledgable sales help...a good deal from an owner that wants return business...I'll be a customer for life. I only go back to places for goods and services that simply want to take my money only if they have something I cant get anywhere else. Sure all businesses are there to profit...treat people well....they'll profit more. To do that takes an effort though...an effort sorely missing in todays world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Will Chen Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 I would agree your right...do your own research..become your own advacate. But.....if I'm buying something...and once in awhile I get great service from knowledgable sales help...a good deal from an owner that wants return business...I'll be a customer for life. I only go back to places for goods and services that simply want to take my money only if they have something I cant get anywhere else. Sure all businesses are there to profit...treat people well....they'll profit more. To do that takes an effort though...an effort sorely missing in todays world. +1. But I don't think the effort is missing. I think simply now a days when someone is wronged, they have a much greater ability to share their experience than in the days of old. Its easy to look back nostalgically to "the good ole days" but fact is really there have always been swindlers, they simply get exposed faster now. Just look up the origin of the term "Snake Oil". How many people do you think folks at the turn of the century were able to tell that they had a bad business dealing with a traveling salesman? Where would they go to research whether a product was legit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cirrus Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 Doubled rates? Did you perhaps get a new car, get in a wreck, or get several speeding tickets? No, I got another year's no claims discount, drove sensibly and carefully, and kept the same car, a 2006 1.6l diesel Ford Focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Aristotle Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 Just playing the devil's advocate, but my question would be when ever in the history of the world has it been the duty of a business to do anything except turn a profit?That is the very core of what a business is and what allows growth. I would suggest it is not a function of our society, but society ad infinitum and that perhaps you are simply awakening to that idea. I would argue with how easy access to information is our modern society that it is better than ever for consumers to research companies/politicians/services prior to giving them your business/endorsement to prevent being taken advantage of. Of course, even with all that sometimes our options boil down to picking the lesser of two evils... It may have become the core of business, but that doesn't make it sustainable practice. There are plenty of economists (classical and modern) who argue against price gouging and the exclusive pursuit of profits. The exclusive focus on increasing profits is a corruption of free market principles and this corruption will kill off the system. Especially in situations that like Fender describes, where companies feel it best to screw over loyal customers. You're trading trust in the market place for short term profit increases. It's not about being altruistic, it's about preserving the foundation of the market place which is faith and trust in a fair and balanced system. Yeah, be an educated consumer, but if the system is such that you have to fight for what you are owed - if contracts are not upheld - economic growth is impossible. Unfettered greed is never good for growth in the long run; it doesn't just "work itself out" in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sad Darwin Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 Short answer for the OP? Primates will be primates..... The problem is we're convinced that we're not primates, and for every fear, every grudge, every paranoia, every dollar, every inch of our perceived "territory", there is a very "human" rationale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pedaltones Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 The advocates of free enterprise, everyman gouge for yourself because you only have a responsibilty to profit are fine on an individual scale but applied on a macro basis will quickly resolve to a societal dog{censored}. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fender&EHX4ever Posted August 8, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 I would argue with how easy access to information is our modern society that it is better than ever for consumers to research companies/politicians/services prior to giving them your business/endorsement to prevent being taken advantage of. Of course, even with all that sometimes our options boil down to picking the lesser of two evils... I agree completely. My feeling is that the transparency is no longer doing what it should. Cold business practice seems to be becoming the norm, and not something to challenge since everyone else is doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Aristotle Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 This an age-old debate that can split even the most genius economists and business minds into differing philosophies. There are corporations who simultaneously make a profit and continually renew their macrovision (long term and ecologically sustainable) for how they benefit society as a whole. Then there are corporations who either lack that vision, or don't care. Their goal is simply short term wealth, and the rest is not interesting to them. It's the latter that seems to be winning again. That is a problem IMO. Milton Friedman and the neo-cons refer to these as "externalities" - things which are responsibilities they can conveniently pass on to others to deal with...like governments....on whom they are dependent but choose to demonize in every way imaginable in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hotmess Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 {censored}'s not new. People are jerks. Remember Vintone? At least with your stuff, you eventually do get what you pay for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members I Play Um Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 I did the hippity hop with car insurance for several years when I was a bit younger, once I found Amica (by researching their claim payment ratio and premiums vs the competition) I've been 100% loyal. Doubled rates? Did you perhaps get a new car, get in a wreck, or get several speeding tickets? And my phone rates have been largely steady over the past 10 years I've been with Sprint. They've had a pretty good policy of grandfathering in contractual terms/pricing. Though I've had a couple minor rate increases in the past couple years.+1. But I don't think the effort is missing. I think simply now a days when someone is wronged, they have a much greater ability to share their experience than in the days of old. Its easy to look back nostalgically to "the good ole days" but fact is really there have always been swindlers, they simply get exposed faster now. Just look up the origin of the term "Snake Oil". How many people do you think folks at the turn of the century were able to tell that they had a bad business dealing with a traveling salesman? Where would they go to research whether a product was legit? You make a good point. The history of "Company Stores" for example shows horrible ripoffs from a very long time ago. Today isnt the only period in time that people are being or feel they are being cheated. Let me tell ya a little story...when I was a teenager there was a fried chicken place and the service and food was excellent. The owner of the store use to stand there in a white shirt and bow tie with a smile and friendly greeting to each and every customer. If a problem arose...there was no problem that guy was on it no questions asked. It wasnt long after my 20's that store changed hands three times. We use to giggle at the guy with his bow tie and greetings....there is no store there anymore. Each and every owner since wasnt as good or friendly or accomadating. I miss that guy with his bow tie and greetings. I miss that fried chicken store. Maybe things will change again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Will Chen Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 Its important to note that economists do not control the behavior of the economy, but simply observe the nature of it and offer theory based on that observation. The political application is secondary to the initial observation. In the end we're talking about greed pure and simple, a characteristic of mankind detailed in the oldest texts we have of human history. This isn't a political stance I'm taking, but a fundamental observation on society and from that perspective, my view is "the system" is inherently corrupt in its very design. There's a reason the quote "For the love of money is the root of all (kinds of) evil" has transformed to "money is the root of all evil" over time. I don't think anyone is a fan of unscrupulous swindlers of any financial stature. But their existence is a fact of life. Always has been and always will be. The view that this is unique in modern society is looking at history through rose colored lenses. The truth is that the maximization of profit is the cost of living in a capitalistic world. Anyway, to the op. Sorry for the rough patch and I don't mean to belittle your frustration. Much good luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pine Apple Slim Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 Mrs. Pineapple had a prescription filled yesterday, a tube of goop, cost us $130 and my insurance co around $500. The pharmacist, a nice local one BTW, who still offers excellent service, explained the drug co quit making the small tubes, so now you get a "lifetime supply". We debated filling it, but decided to go ahead cause she really needs it, and figured if the prob come up 1 or 5 yrs from now she'll have it on hand.We got home with the damn thing and when she opened it and started to used it realized the tube was 50% air and 50% product. What a rip.I know theres nothing the pharmacist can do, but we have to go by there today and we're just gonna show him how the drug co is massively ripping off us, him, and my insurance co. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AluminumFalcon Posted August 8, 2012 Members Share Posted August 8, 2012 It may have become the core of business, but that doesn't make it sustainable practice. There are plenty of economists (classical and modern) who argue against price gouging and the exclusive pursuit of profits. The exclusive focus on increasing profits is a corruption of free market principles and this corruption will kill off the system. Especially in situations that like Fender describes, where companies feel it best to screw over loyal customers. You're trading trust in the market place for short term profit increases. It's not about being altruistic, it's about preserving the foundation of the market place which is faith and trust in a fair and balanced system. Yeah, be an educated consumer, but if the system is such that you have to fight for what you are owed - if contracts are not upheld - economic growth is impossible. Unfettered greed is never good for growth in the long run; it doesn't just "work itself out" in the end. Very well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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