Members pbone Posted November 22, 2012 Members Share Posted November 22, 2012 I bought a power amp off eBay for a pretty good price, but when it arrived, the rack ears had all (all 4) been bent and the box was pretty much destroyed. Reached out to the seller who is asking me to see if USPS will take any responsibility, but he didn't get any insurance on it. I don't want to return it but I got an item that was damaged. What would you say is a good resolution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gae86 Posted November 22, 2012 Members Share Posted November 22, 2012 a pat on your shoulder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LSDis4me Posted November 22, 2012 Members Share Posted November 22, 2012 He didn't pack it well enough, and didn't insure it, so its his responsibility. If he won't refund some money then he should take it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IRG Posted November 22, 2012 Members Share Posted November 22, 2012 ^^Pretty much what LSD said. USPS won't do anything, so it is not covered. You could ask them, maybe they will offer some restitution, but that's a long shot. If you really want it, negotiate a fair amount in compensation (at least what it would cost to repair, plus something for your efforts). And if not, then have the seller reimburse you for the shipping, and send it back. Or open up a PP dispute if he balks after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pedaltones Posted November 22, 2012 Members Share Posted November 22, 2012 eBay gives the buyer dominance. Let the seller cower in the shadow of your dispute-peen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members evets618 Posted November 22, 2012 Members Share Posted November 22, 2012 Three things: Paper trail, paper trail, paper trail. Before you open a Paypal dispute get some email documentation of any possible settlement. Because that's the first thing Paypal will ask: "Did you contact the seller and try to work things out?" Even then there's a waiting period. There's also a time limit to how long you can drag this out, so git crackin' junior! I hope you took photos of the damage, including the shipping carton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members amp_surgeon Posted November 23, 2012 Members Share Posted November 23, 2012 If he didn't purchase insurance then the post office won't do a damn thing, even if you've got video of the post office truck running over your box multiple times. No insurance means no liability - end of story. This is an all or nothing situation. Either you accept the item as is, with whatever damage it's got, or you demand a full refund and return it. Don't try to make any deals. Sellers always smell a rat when someone tries to compromise, like asking for a partial refund to offset the fact that the item is damaged. A fundamental rule of eBay is that the item is the seller's responsibility until the item is in your hands. That means the seller can't wash their hands of the problem if the carrier damages the item, even if intentional neglect by the carrier can be proven. At no point does it become the carrier's responsibility. Even if the seller had purchased insurance, they'd be paying the seller for the damage because the seller is the one who hired the carrier. If you're willing to accept the item with the damage then email the seller and tell him it's cool. Personally, I wouldn't do it, even if the item were the only one of it's kind available on eBay. If the beating was severe enough to bend the rack ears, imagine what sort of damage may have been done to the internal components. If you want a refund (which I believe you should) then your claim is "Significantly Not As Described", or SNAD in eBay seller's lingo. Tell the seller you want a refund. If he won't voluntarily agree to refund your money then file a dispute through eBay. Don't wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hiwatt Bob Posted November 23, 2012 Members Share Posted November 23, 2012 {censored} this noise. this forum has gone soooo far downhill the last couple years. I. am. out. oh yeah, before you accuse this guy of anything--make sure you wait a few weeks and check the mail for a {censored}ton of pennies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pewtershmit Posted November 23, 2012 Members Share Posted November 23, 2012 Originally Posted by amp_surgeon If he didn't purchase insurance then the post office won't do a damn thing, even if you've got video of the post office truck running over your box multiple times. No insurance means no liability - end of story.This is an all or nothing situation. Either you accept the item as is, with whatever damage it's got, or you demand a full refund and return it. Don't try to make any deals. Sellers always smell a rat when someone tries to compromise, like asking for a partial refund to offset the fact that the item is damaged.A fundamental rule of eBay is that the item is the seller's responsibility until the item is in your hands. That means the seller can't wash their hands of the problem if the carrier damages the item, even if intentional neglect by the carrier can be proven. At no point does it become the carrier's responsibility. Even if the seller had purchased insurance, they'd be paying the seller for the damage because the seller is the one who hired the carrier.If you're willing to accept the item with the damage then email the seller and tell him it's cool. Personally, I wouldn't do it, even if the item were the only one of it's kind available on eBay. If the beating was severe enough to bend the rack ears, imagine what sort of damage may have been done to the internal components.If you want a refund (which I believe you should) then your claim is "Significantly Not As Described", or SNAD in eBay seller's lingo. Tell the seller you want a refund. If he won't voluntarily agree to refund your money then file a dispute through eBay. Don't wait. listen to Jim. I've dealt with this many times as a Rep for eBay. Open a paypal dispute and send it back. Only get a partial refund if he offers. Best to just send it back and get a refund. and jesus {censored} christ, insurance, insurance, insurance! It is very important that you get your purchases insured, at the very least it will save you this pain in the bunghole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BrentMpls Posted November 23, 2012 Members Share Posted November 23, 2012 Originally Posted by LSDis4me He didn't pack it well enough, and didn't insure it, so its his responsibility. If he won't refund some money then he should take it back. Yup. At his expense of course. Originally Posted by Pedaltones eBay gives the buyer dominance. Let the seller cower in the shadow of your dispute-peen. Yup. Originally Posted by pbone I bought a power amp off eBay for a pretty good price, but when it arrived, the rack ears had all (all 4) been bent and the box was pretty much destroyed. Reached out to the seller who is asking me to see if USPS will take any responsibility, but he didn't get any insurance on it. I don't want to return it but I got an item that was damaged. What would you say is a good resolution? As a buyer on eBay it isn't your responsibility to do anything other than pay for and receive what you paid for. It sounds like either the amp was damaged pre-ship, or it wasn't packed well enough and damaged during shipping. If he didn't get insurance, USPS will do nothing for him (or you). Officially, what you can do is ask for a refund for not receiving the item described. This is what you should do. You may not need to ship the amp back even - as it isn't your responsibility to do so (although if he pays for it and you are willing this is the 'nice' thing to do). Finding a box, packing materials and your time packing and shipping are things to consider. Off the books, you could ask for a partial refund that satisfies you for the damage if you want to keep it, that he sends you via paypal, but that complicates things as you would then be going outside of eBay, and he may retract the payment after x amount of days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LSDis4me Posted November 23, 2012 Members Share Posted November 23, 2012 Originally Posted by Hiwatt Bob {censored} this noise. this forum has gone soooo far downhill the last couple years. I. am. out.oh yeah, before you accuse this guy of anything--make sure you wait a few weeks and check the mail for a {censored}ton of pennies. lollar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pbone Posted November 23, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 23, 2012 The item in question is a power amp. It cost $100 and is definitely not unique. The rack ears are not a deal breaker for me, although they would be nice. I can probably hammer them back into place given a couple of beers. Gun to my head, it's much more preferable to keep the amp and shrug off the damage of the rack ears than to get a refund, ship it back, look for another one, etc. The most I was looking for was for a little bit of restitution for the damages. A return/refund procedure is a little too much of a PITA to process right now, though. But thanks everyone for the advice, I will digest it overnight and get back to him tomorrow with this information. Really appreciate it, everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pewtershmit Posted November 23, 2012 Members Share Posted November 23, 2012 ya well I guess then just ask him to refund a bit, but don't be surprised he says no, as he isn't obligated in anyway to give a partial refund, especially if opting for not insuring it was your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pbone Posted November 23, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 23, 2012 Word. I didn't have the option for insurance. Like $20 would be nice but I'm not gonna {censored} my pants over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members amp_surgeon Posted November 23, 2012 Members Share Posted November 23, 2012 Spend a little time in the eBay sellers forum. The issue of buyers claiming a SNAD comes up all the time. The claim is usually for damage not shown or described in the listing, or the item doesn't function properly. Whenever anyone mentions a buyer asking for a partial refund then all of the veteran sellers start sounding the alarm bells. The sellers are always CONVINCED that this is an attempt by the buyer to get a discount after the sale when there was actually nothing wrong with the item when the buyer received it. The reason is because this is so incredibly easy for the buyer to pull off. The buyer never has to physically present the item to the seller (by shipping it back), and the evidence (a few photos) is easy to manufacture. I remember one seller who uploaded a photo to his Flickr account that he supposedly received from a buyer. It was obvious from the background that the photo had been taken in a pawn shop - same make and model, but obviously not the same item. Most buyers attempting a scam are not that stupid, though. The bottom line is that the seller is probably not going to believe you if you ask for a partial refund. They may give it to you. They may not. Most will probably say they'd rather you just return the item rather than letting a potential scammer get away with it. The sellers who would be tempted to give in are the ones who can't afford the inevitable negative feedback, which they would have already resigned themselves to getting. If you actually threaten to leave negative feedback if you don't get the partial refund then they'll be thoroughly convinced you're a scammer. Regardless how it turns out, you'll probably end up on the seller's blocked buyers list, and some sellers DO share their blocked buyers lists with each other. You're an innocent victim, but when you ask for a partial refund then you place yourself in a sea of sharks, and you look to the seller just like all of the other sharks. You may find afterward that you can't bid on similar items from other sellers because you've been blocked. That's why I said you should think of this as an all or nothing situation. Accept the item as-is with the damage, or ask for a refund and return it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dr.Picklebottom Posted November 23, 2012 Members Share Posted November 23, 2012 eBay has gotten intense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pbone Posted November 30, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 When I told the seller that USPS can't claim {censored} because they didn't offer insurance to me, they responded, "that's crazy!!! So who's responsible?!?" Also the mains cable and speaker cable pictured in the ad wasn't included PayPal claim HEY-O! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members riff ie Posted November 30, 2012 Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 moaj bro... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CrystalLake Posted November 30, 2012 Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 Originally Posted by pbone When I told the seller that USPS can't claim {censored} because they didn't offer insurance to me, they responded, "that's crazy!!! So who's responsible?!?" Also the mains cable and speaker cable pictured in the ad wasn't included PayPal claim HEY-O! He sounds like a 14-year old first-time seller. I would just file a PayPal claim as item not as described and go from there. It seems the seller is clueless, so give him a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dr.Picklebottom Posted November 30, 2012 Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 yeah, id just file a dispute and let him know that you cant file a claim on something he shipped. getting the item to the buyer is the sellers responsibility. that sucks having to deal with someone that dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pbone Posted November 30, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 Yeah it's all good. Looks like its gonna get taken care of one way or another Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members amp_surgeon Posted November 30, 2012 Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 When I told the seller that USPS can't claim {censored} because they didn't offer insurance to me, they responded, "that's crazy!!! So who's responsible?!?" Also the mains cable and speaker cable pictured in the ad wasn't included PayPal claim HEY-O! Either the seller is a newbie who doesn't understand eBay seller's rules and the buyer protection program, or they're hoping you're a newbie and don't understand it. The seller is responsible for the item until the buyer receives it. If the buyer opens the box and the item they see is not identical to the item they purchased then it's "significantly not as described", and it's the seller's responsibility to make it right. The seller can't try to shift the blame to the carrier because the carrier is the seller's agent - the seller hired the carrier, and the seller is one who the carrier would compensate if a claim was filed. The seller can argue this point until he's blue in the face, but the fact remains that it's eBay policy, and has been for a very long time. The seller can ask the buyer to choose their shipping preferences, and the seller can ask the buyer to compensate them for the shipping charges, but the buyer has no direct interaction with the carrier. The seller can't tell the buyer "You didn't ask for insurance so you're out of luck". It's the seller's responsibility to ensure that the item arrives intact. Insurance protects the seller - eBay protects the buyer. Every veteran seller knows - if the item has any significant value then always pay for insurance and signature delivery confirmation, even if the buyer didn't request these services or pay for them. These services won't prevent an item from getting lost in shipping, nor from the item being damaged in transit, but they WILL provide the seller some compensation if either of these things happen. The seller has to make things right with the buyer in either case. File a SNAD claim and get your money back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pbone Posted November 30, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 30, 2012 I should just copy and paste that!! Damn, thanks Jim! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.