OT: The Ultimate "Vox AC30 re-issue" Thread!!

[fuzzface71]

Since I've noticed that, there's already been a few AC30 users in here.

And we all know that, the amp forum is not a good place for it.

I'm starting THE MOTHER THREAD right now. I have compiled a few info provided by forumite Bb (with his permission of course). Thanks man!

 

So please, share some comments and knowledge.

Questions and answers and anything and everything about VOX AC30.

 

[fuzzface71]

fuzzface71 wrote on 05-05-2004 05:47 AM:

Bb

 

I've always contemplated on the weber and Vox blues. You seem to know a lot about Voxes..and I can honestly say that, I will trust you about the weber.

 

Btw..I use the greenbacks..what is your take on that?

 

FF71

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Cheers Fuzzface71,

 

My response is kinda long....lets call this part 1 of 3.

 

I'm a firm believer in "tone is subjective"....otherwise we wouldn't have so many diverse guitar tones.

That said...My re-issue AC30 has greenbacks (I built a 2x12 open back cab and loaded with Webers as an additional option). I keep the greenbacks in the combo because I like them as a tone option.

Greenbacks are great in 2x12 open backs and 4x12 closed backs (the sound of 70s rock'n'roll). I love them...they are warm and woody...maybe a little lite in bass response but that helps my bass player keep his space. IMO greenbacks are the most musical ceramic speaker made.

Alnico Blues....great speakers with three excellent options. These are slightly brighter than greenbacks with good bass response and a mid dip that fits perfectly into an EL84 Vox based topology.

The Celestion Alnico Blue is expensive and worth its price. Weber's exact copy of the modern Celestion is a P12BT. These are slightly harsher and brighter (in a good way) than original Celestion Alnico Blues made in the 60s. They are not true reproductions of 1960s Alnico Blues.

 

END OF PART 1

 

Re: Vox

 

Part 2 of 3.

 

Weber makes a "close as you can get" copy of the mid 60s Celestion Alnico Blue. It is very true to every 60s Vox I played with original speakers. It is called the P12B. This is one of my favorite speakers. It is slightly less bright and has a smoother top end than the new Celestion Alnico Blue. It is my #1 for a Brit tone where Weber's copy of the Jensen P12Q is my #1 American tone speaker.

What I like best about the Weber P12B is it is $100 cheaper than the Celestion and is why I recommend over the Celestion. However, if you've played a reissue AC30 (or AC15) with the new Celestion and love it...it may be the right speaker for you. If not, go with the Weber...you'll love it and save some $$$$ for your next fuzz.

The Weber P12B is also the speaker Don Butler recommends (aka Toneman...he is the Vox amp authority in the US...even the pro amp builders send their Vintage Vox's to Don).

 

 

 

Part 3 of 3....the last one.

 

Good luck and hang onto those Greenbacks if you like them as an option (I think they are great in the re-issues....money wasn't an issue when I chose between the Alnico vs. greenback loaded AC30). It sat nicer in my band's mix. Hopefully I gave you some additional info and think about it for a while.

 

Remember tone is subjective and if given a chance, trust your ears...I've trusted yours from time to time on fuzz's....so I know you have good ears.

 

Last thing....I'm a strong supporter of open back cabs and only test speakers/amps in such situations....I'm what you might call a closed back cab basher....I think this is important in understanding my perspective.

 

Hope I helped,

 

Bb

[fuzzface71]

Power Tubes:

I do use NOS tubes from time to time however, my re-issue Vox's never see them...you are right in that they are too expensive and I don't like the thought of getting used to them in "gig" amps which is what the re-issue are for (or how I employ them). The few NOS tubes I do have always get put into the Top Hat Club Royal, Victoria 20112, or Emery Sound Superbaby.

The stock Ei EL84 that come in the Vox's stock are excellent.

I prefer the JJ EL84 (although only slightly) to the Ei tubes.

I've also use Groove Tubes from time to time....I have Groove tube's matched set (screened JJ tubes) in my Top Hat right now and love them. Power tubes fail and only the very best JAN NOS (ceramic and metal cans vs. glass) will still only last, best case, up to 8 years. Most need replacement within 2 years....go with the new tubes...NOS doesn't last forever and Aspin (of Groove Tubes) must be supported...he's the only one willing to manufacture tubes in the US, listen to guitarists, and improve. Only our support, in buying tubes, will ensure tube amps don't become extinct.

 

End of Part 1.

 

 

Pre-amp tubes....Go with Groove Tubes 12AX7M....it is advertised as a Mullard copy (NOS runs between $100~$200 per tube). While I say it isn't an exact copy....who cares...it is by far the best sounding and musical pre-amp tube produced today. KCA sold 96 of these within 4 days....expect to back order...worth the wait.

I also like the Sovtek 12AX7 LPS...although expect to buy 3 for every good one (micro phonic)...can be too bright in a Vox amp.

My second fav new produced AX7 is the Chinese made 12AX7-C from groove tubes.

There are great NOS 12AX7 types around for $50 each and under. RFT, Mazda, Brimar, GE, RCA, Philips, etc... Some for as cheap as $15. I strongly recommend placing a NOS in V1 as it will have a significant impact on tone. I always tell guys instead of that next pedal purchase....spend the cash on a NOS 12ax7 for V1....it will improve how your existing pedals sound through the amp....that one tube can be like playing a new amp and sweeten every pedal you own. My Soulbender sounds 10 times better through a NOS tube in V1. Please consider.

 

End of Part 2

[fuzzface71]

Very useful LINK

[fuzzface71]

TUBES LOCATION

 

 

BACK OF AMP

 

[Bb]

Don Butler's Website....http://www.tone-man.com/

 

He is know as the Tone Man and does service work and upgrades to re-issue AC30s....while I like the stock tone I've heard nothing but good things about his Vox mods from fellow players. I've also heard a few of the amps Don has worked on and while I'm very happy with the stock sound....you can be assured that as soon as I have $400 Don will be revamping my AC30. Go to his site for details on the modifications he makes.

 

Bb

[Meriphew]

Here's my AC30 TBX. I've used it in the studio a few times on a couple of songs, but it doesn't get alot of use.

 

[fuzzface71]

How long before you change the biggest tube? The GZ-34?

[Thelonius]

tophat club royale bitch!

[ollenorin]

here is my ac-30 tbx

[Bb]

Fuzzface...did you get my PM on rectifiers? If so post please...thanks.

 

To answer your question...with modern rectifiers (i.e. Sovtek) I replace every time I replace power tubes. The JJ GZ34 (modern or pre 2001) sound much better and one has lasted 3 years so far with no issues....I'm keeping a close eye on this one because if it continues to perfrom well...it was a bargin at $20.

My 60s AC30 has a used Mullard GZ34...it has been in use (how much I just don't know) since the mid 60s...it is performing better than all of the new production GZ34s I've had my hands on. I expect about 20 years of use from a NOS Mullard GZ34.

The new ones are not even close in terms of reliability....this is the one tube that can make or break this amp.

 

Early signs of rectifier wearing (if it goes you'll know...no sound).

Loss of volume and punch with good power tubes.

Very grainy and thin tone...like the amp is starving for power.

Upper register rings.....amp sounds micro phonic but tube tapping fails to identify faulty tube...could be weakening rectifier.

 

Thats it for now.

 

Bb

[ollenorin]

what input on the ac-30 do you like ?

 

i found that the topboost input is too damn much...too loud... the lower inputjack on the brilliant channel is better for my taste.

[Bb]

Excellent amp that Top Hat Club Royal...I own one with the tube rectifier. Funny, when I asked Brian to describe the tone of the amp he kept refering to the re-issue AC15.

 

With the re-issue AC15 no longer being made the Club Royal fits into the void quite well.

I got a great deal on my AC15 new ($500 because of tolex damage in store) but most payed around $1K new. A Club Royal can be had for $350 more! You don't get reverb or tremolo the AC15 provides but it is PtP and oozes quality. His deeper cabinets also help with improved bass response.

 

This is a good alternative to the AC15....if you find yourself bidding too much on an e-bay AC15 auction ($1K or over)....remember the Club Royal is a great, similar sounding amp for under $1.5K.

 

They do sound different but both are great tone machines....i.e. no such thing as best....I own both and wouldn't get rid of either.

 

Bb

[Bb]

 

Originally posted by ollenorin what input on the ac-30 do you like ? i found that the topboost input is too damn much...too loud... the lower inputjack on the brilliant channel is better for my taste.

 

 

I'm with you olle,

 

I use the normal channel on the low sensitivity input (#2). I do use the top boost channel with long pedal chains but the cut knob is up to 3 o'clock and the treb knob between 9 and 11 o'clock. I never use the 1st input (high sensitivity) on the top boost channel.

I keep the Bass at noon. I sometimes have to push the amp a little bit to keep it from getting boxy with those settings. Once the skeakers broke in (greenbacks anyway) the boxiness seemed to go away.

 

The amp is too loud and smokes just about every amp I've played except 200W Marshall tops. I only take mine out on large outdoor gigs...about twice a year.

 

Bb

[ollenorin]

 

Originally posted by Bb I'm with you olle, I use the normal channel on the low sensitivity input (#2). I do use the top boost channel with long pedal chains but the cut knob is up to 3 o'clock and the treb knob between 9 and 11 o'clock. I never use the 1st input (high sensitivity) on the top boost channel. I keep the Bass at noon. I sometimes have to push the amp a little bit to keep it from getting boxy with those settings. Once the skeakers broke in (greenbacks anyway) the boxiness seemed to go away. The amp is too loud and smokes just about every amp I've played except 200W Marshall tops. I only take mine out on large outdoor gigs...about twice a year. Bb

 

 

cool...i thought i was the only one liking the lower input more...i can pull up the volume to half at least with that input...and its not too freaking loud at that point....with the topboost i had volume at 2 and it was superloud already....

 

the lower input also took on my pedals better...the overdrives i have were singing.

[Bb]

Sweat Olle....Lots of folks complain that the AC30 can be difficult with some ODs (TS808 style). I found the opposite using the low sensitivity input...it even loves my FDII.

 

Bb

[ollenorin]

 

Originally posted by Bb Sweat Olle....Lots of folks complain that the AC30 can be difficult with some ODs (TS808 style). I found the opposite using the low sensitivity input...it even loves my FDII. Bb

 

 

sshhh !! dont tell anyone.....

 

my secret pedal is the mi audio blues prototype...best thing ive heard in a long time....that and the Analogman KOT after it...i got sweet overdrive, huge crunch, warm fuzzy leads, and a volume boost as well with the red channel on the KOT.

[H.K.Phooey]

I'm not a vox owner, but thought the following might be interesting to some here that GAS for celestion blues but faint at the price tag...

 

Eminence has recently released a bunch of new speakers and one of them is the red fang, their take on the celestion blue. It is alnico and can be found for about $110. There are a couple of reports around on some other boards, including some that have both, and it's looking like a hit. Sure as hell is way cheaper than a celestion. Ted Weber is even selling them!

 

[fuzzface71]

Originally posted by Bb Sweat Olle....Lots of folks complain that the AC30 can be difficult with some ODs (TS808 style). I found the opposite using the low sensitivity input...it even loves my FDII. Bb

 

I mainly use a tubescreamer with my Vox. I am so "used to" using that tone thru the Vox that when I use something different. It's just not the same for me.

[Bb]

More of my subjective info on rectifiers:

 

Rectifier Tubes:

Vox AC30s use GZ34/5AR4 tube rectifiers. The only new one I know of is the Sovteck 5AR4. It is a horrible tube in every respect. A poor rectifier can ruin a decent amp loaded with NOS tubes. The Sovtek is so micro phonic and weak I have 5Y3s that produce less sag (this isn't the good sag...I can hear my amps whimper with this tube).

With the Sovtek in my superbaby...all the NOS tubes sound like crap...they pop, hiss, high frequency harmonic ringing (the unpleasant kind). The rectifier has so much impact on the other tubes performance it will have the most effect on amp performance and tone (attack, punch, girth, and sustain...everything that makes a note musical).

This is why I highly recommend NOS GZ34s for re-issue Vox amps. That $100~$150 you spend on a NOS Mullard GZ34 would be like trading in the re-issue for a hand wired version Vox. The Mullard rectifier should outlive you so it is a one time investment.

Expect to change the Sovtek with every power tube change and I go through 10 to find one I can live with.

Curt Emery sold me a JJ GZ34 (old JJ factory, pre 2001) and it seems like a great tube so far (sonically it is very good)...only time will tell how long it will last. Stay away from the Sovtek and look for the JJ GZ34

[Bb]

 

Originally posted by H.K.Phooey I'm not a vox owner, but thought the following might be interesting to some here that GAS for celestion blues but faint at the price tag... Eminence has recently released a bunch of new speakers and one of them is the red fang, their take on the celestion blue. It is alnico and can be found for about $110. There are a couple of reports around on some other boards, including some that have both, and it's looking like a hit. Sure as hell is way cheaper than a celestion. Ted Weber is even selling them!

 

 

Good news and if Ted carries them...there might be something to the hype. I'm generally not a fan of eminence....I might even be considered a basher....however, anyone who has played a Carr amp with an eminence kingpin 60 (specific to Carr amps) will confirm they do make very good speakers.

Thanks for adding to the thread HK.

 

Bb

[Kid_A]

Vox owner here too...

 

One Blue and One Green for speakers...

 

Best of both worlds...

 

 

Now....i cant believe im gona rain on your parade with this....but...ive been pondering the thought of selling my Vox...im finding the compression im getting at higher levels too much fo my taste, i prefere an open sounding less compressed sound, i think im just missing my ole jcm800 stack, i loved the open-ness of the ringing chords...

 

 

Wot am i doing wrong?!

 

[Bb]

Kid-A

 

You are running it too loud:eek:

Or you just need another AC30 so you can get the volume down and remove the compression.

All kidding aside....the great thing about being a guitar player is all our gear options and subjective ears....this way we all get to find our own sonic territory.

I do know what you mean with too much compression...for me its not an issue as I can never see playing at that volume with the AC30.

The other thing to consider is tube replacement. Your rectifier and its quality will have significant control on the amps compression and feel. A good GZ34, JJ for new-mullard for NOS, could make the difference.

You could also install a set of fairly clean EL84s (Groove Tubes rated 8~10) to open her up a bit.

It might just be that your playing is more dynamic and reactive using the JCM800....it might be the right amp for you.

There are too many great amps out there....I say keep the AC30 if you can and get that JCM800 back. I always like to keep one fender, Vox, and Marshall sounding amp in my greedy hands. Not always possible but a good goal to set.

 

Bb

[Kid_A]

Originally posted by Bb Kid-A You are running it too loud:eek: Or you just need another AC30 so you can get the volume down and remove the compression. All kidding aside....the great thing about being a guitar player is all our gear options and subjective ears....this way we all get to find our own sonic territory. I do know what you mean with too much compression...for me its not an issue as I can never see playing at that volume with the AC30. The other thing to consider is tube replacement. Your rectifier and its quality will have significant control on the amps compression and feel. A good GZ34, JJ for new-mullard for NOS, could make the difference. You could also install a set of fairly clean EL84s (Groove Tubes rated 8~10) to open her up a bit. It might just be that your playing is more dynamic and reactive using the JCM800....it might be the right amp for you. There are too many great amps out there....I say keep the AC30 if you can and get that JCM800 back. I always like to keep one fender, Vox, and Marshall sounding amp in my greedy hands. Not always possible but a good goal to set. Bb

 

Sorry i cant hear ya...SPEAK UP!!!!

 

 

Yea i do like to run the vox pretty cranked, i even jump the normal and brilliant channels...

 

Ive been wondering about a tube change too...im gonna look into it, but re-tubing an AC30 aint cheap..

[gearnut]

Just checkin in with my vox AC30hw and AC15 RI. Awesome amps all the way, still finding great sounds in there. The band heads into the studio for a week starting this weekend and I'm psyched to get some recording time in with them.