OT: So When Will Plastic Bottles/Packaging Become Illegal?

[rushfan]

 

you're talking like it's some sort of complex mathematical solution. I don't know what the best solution would be, but most things in the plastics are still easy to take. It's not like if they stopped packaging things in plastic, shoplifting will go through the roof. And besides we're talking about places like Walmart, which probably shouldn't exist in the first place, they managed to deal with shoplifting before plastic. There's no reason they have to use it on everything and it just barely deters shoplifting in most cases. It's completely retarded, like a dog {censored}ting in it's food dish. The bottom line is that a select group of people are making way too much money off of it to stop. Laws are very easily bought, and a lot of jobs depend on plastics, but there has to be a change made or we're all {censored}ed. It will take a shift in government, or a collective agreement among companies to stop using plastic packaging in their products, which ultimately boils down to us (society) making it an important issue and having it influence our purchasing behavior. So it starts with us and hopefully ends up somewhere better.

 

 

We're already all {censored}ed, dude. Whether it's next year, next decade or (I doubt we make it this far) next century, the human race is almost over. Between overpopulation and greed, we've raped this planet beyond what most people can even fathom.

 

And there is no end in sight, the same rich {censored}ers are in control, and always will be - right until the end.

 

There is a simple biological model that shows how any biological system that has an exponential growth curve, within a closed system (the earth is closed for this example, very little escapes this planet other than some radiation), then eventually that population will have a crash. It will either die off totally, or the population will then obtain a level that is sustainable by the environment which contains it. Whether it's war, famine, disease, polluted environment, it doesn't matter. The human race's days are numbered.

 

Our population has been on an exponential growth curve for a little over 2 centuries. It cannot continue forever, that is a FACT. Sooner or later we will all (or most of us at least) pay the piper. If we keep going like we are, in less than 70 years our population will DOUBLE to 12 BILLION. This planet cannot sustain that many people, no matter how much technology we develop.

[rushfan]

By the way, I have hari on ignore, but I saw his comment in your quote.

His statement of "it wouldn't be practical" is the type of attitude that is the crux of the problem. People can't be bothered to do what's right for the planet, what's NEEDED for our society and race to continue well into the future.

Why?

Because it's not practical. BIG

[THAT4301]

Nice with the mathematic comment when all I am asking for is your opinion on this problem which you don't like. I am actually curious, I feel the same way but struggle to eliminate certain things from my business. So again though how can we change if there isn't a clear solution? I have to use plastics in certain cases, do I want too, no? It just isn't practical to do anything different though.

 

 

what would it take to make it practical?

[cantoXIII]

i use a Brita water filter religiously. no plastic bottles for me.

 

i also recycle every single thing that i physically can. luckily, my town has a free program, so even if it doesn't all get recycled in the end, at least i'm not paying for it to go into the trash. ($2 per can here)

[Amigo]

 

We're already all {censored}ed, dude. Whether it's next year, next decade or (I doubt we make it this far) next century, the human race is almost over. Between overpopulation and greed, we've raped this planet beyond what most people can even fathom. And there is no end in sight, the same rich {censored}ers are in control, and always will be - right until the end. There is a simple biological model that shows how any biological system that has an exponential growth curve, within a closed system (the earth is closed for this example, very little escapes this planet other than some radiation), then eventually that population will have a crash. It will either die off totally, or the population will then obtain a level that is sustainable by the environment which contains it. Whether it's war, famine, disease, polluted environment, it doesn't matter. The human race's days are numbered. Our population has been on an exponential growth curve for a little over 2 centuries. It cannot continue forever, that is a FACT. Sooner or later we will all (or most of us at least) pay the piper. If we keep going like we are, in less than 70 years our population will DOUBLE to 12 BILLION. This planet cannot sustain that many people, no matter how much technology we develop.

 

 

I agree with most of what you're saying, there are too many people on the earth at the moment, and with the crazy popultion explosion the earth has seen in the last 2 centuries is a lot for the earth to take.

 

But I don't think we should just give up. If you educate enough people, {censored} can get done. Most problems are results of ignorance and oppression. People don't realized they are being oppressed, but the most liberating thing you can do is educate yourself and try to educate other people. To give up is the lazy-cowardess way to let things roll.... Even the people in power, once they see, will change, it's not like it doesn't effect them or their families either.

[dubkitty]

OMG we're all going to die if we don't let environmentalists outlaw everything they don't like!

here's an idea: instead of trying to drag humanity back to the 12th century with your iron fist, GO PICK UP THE {censored}ING PLASTIC. what was that? it's not your responsibility, it's the responsibility of governments to force other people to do what you want them to do? that's what i thought. piss off, you tinpot fascists.

[THAT4301]

OMG we're all going to die if we don't let environmentalists outlaw everything they don't like! here's an idea: instead of trying to drag humanity back to the 12th century with your iron fist, GO PICK UP THE {censored}ING PLASTIC. what was that? it's not your responsibility, it's the responsibility of governments to force other people to do what you want them to do? that's what i thought. piss off, you tinpot fascists.

 

 

You're quite right, I shall waddle out into the middle of the ocean with my boat shoes and attempt to pick up the hundred thousand tonnes of plastic quicker than {censored}s like you can drink your coke and chuck it in the rubbish. I shall put all this plastic into a rucksack and carry it around with me wherever I go so that nobody ever has to deal with it.

[H.R. Shove and Stuff]

You're quite right, I shall waddle out into the middle of the ocean with my boat shoes and attempt to pick up the hundred thousand tonnes of plastic quicker than {censored}s like you can drink your coke and chuck it in the rubbish. I shall put all this plastic into a rucksack and carry it around with me wherever I go so that nobody ever has to deal with it.

 

[AnderMocs]

 

OMG we're all going to die if we don't let environmentalists outlaw everything they don't like! here's an idea: instead of trying to drag humanity back to the 12th century with your iron fist, GO PICK UP THE {censored}ING PLASTIC. what was that? it's not your responsibility, it's the responsibility of governments to force other people to do what you want them to do? that's what i thought. piss off, you tinpot fascists.

 

 

wow. just wow. {censored}.

[Amigo]

OMG we're all going to die if we don't let environmentalists outlaw everything they don't like! here's an idea: instead of trying to drag humanity back to the 12th century with your iron fist, GO PICK UP THE {censored}ING PLASTIC. what was that? it's not your responsibility, it's the responsibility of governments to force other people to do what you want them to do? that's what i thought. piss off, you tinpot fascists.

 

 

I know we are supposed to not call names, but if you are not just trolling and in fact serious (and since you called first) you are a {censored}ing {censored}head. It's not just what's already there it's what is on its way. Why the {censored} should I have to pick up your trash that you're too {censored}ing lazy to deal with. In order for there to actually be a change, government intervention has to take place.

 

That's exactly why we have government. By saying that it's not the government's responsibility completely frees them of any responsibility for anything. And how the {censored} would it bring us back to the 12th century when there are so many perfectly fine alternatives out there. You don't have to eliminate the use of plastics but you can cut it back by over 80% so long as we don't use it on everything all the time

 

And if you are in fact not just trolling, you might as well go back to sitting around {censored}ing your cat all day and shut up because you don't know what you're talking about. Come on man, smarten up, you're better than this.

[TheHarakiriEnd]

Rushfan, you have NO {censored}ing clue what you are talking about. You know {censored} about my business or issues. So kindly shut the {censored} up and ignore me.

what would it take to make it practical?

I am a farmer/produce man,customers require certain products to be packaged in plastic, I don't make the call. If they require that for me to sell them then where does that leave me? Sure you can say, well don't sell those customers then but the truth of the matter is: AG, Super Valu, Wal-Mart, Piggly Wiggly, Kroger, Sav-a-lot, AWG, C&S, etc. all do. So if I want the kind of business it takes to sell my crop and make it profitable I have too, it isn't an option. For instance grape tomatoes come in a plastic container, this is the industry standard, I didn't decide on this and have even presented other ideas but they have not gotten any interest. It is either make the product this way or don't sell us. To make it practical to do for me at this point would require industry wide changes which I can be a part of and help with but ultimately I don't control. I hardly use any plastic, the only place I do is in the required items.

Also, as a farmer I place great value on the earth and I feel like I do more than my part to try an improve this whole situation. I am not saying all this to be opposite the original poster's view because I totally agree but it is hard to actually make some of this stuff happen.

[goaway]

 

Rushfan, you have NO {censored}ing clue what you are talking about. You know {censored} about my business or issues. So kindly shut the {censored} up and ignore me. I am a farmer/produce man,customers require certain products to be packaged in plastic, I don't make the call. If they require that for me to sell them then where does that leave me? Sure you can say, well don't sell those customers then but the truth of the matter is: AG, Super Valu, Wal-Mart, Piggly Wiggly, Kroger, Sav-a-lot, AWG, C&S, etc. all do. So if I want the kind of business it takes to sell my crop and make it profitable I have too, it isn't an option. For instance grape tomatoes come in a plastic container, this is the industry standard, I didn't decide on this and have even presented other ideas but they have not gotten any interest. It is either make the product this way or don't sell us. To make it practical to do for me at this point would require industry wide changes which I can be a part of and help with but ultimately I don't control. I hardly use any plastic, the only place I do is in the required items. Also, as a farmer I place great value on the earth and I feel like I do more than my part to try an improve this whole situation. I am not saying all this to be opposite the original poster's view because I totally agree but it is hard to actually make some of this stuff happen.

 

 

i feel like this is something i should have known since i've actually met you in person...but i had no idea you were a farmer. thats pretty awesome.

[TheHarakiriEnd]

i feel like this is something i should have known since i've actually met you in person...but i had no idea you were a farmer. thats pretty awesome.

 

 

Yeah, I don't quite look the part I guess...

[Amigo]

 

Rushfan, you have NO {censored}ing clue what you are talking about. You know {censored} about my business or issues. So kindly shut the {censored} up and ignore me. I am a farmer/produce man,customers require certain products to be packaged in plastic, I don't make the call. If they require that for me to sell them then where does that leave me? Sure you can say, well don't sell those customers then but the truth of the matter is: AG, Super Valu, Wal-Mart, Piggly Wiggly, Kroger, Sav-a-lot, AWG, C&S, etc. all do. So if I want the kind of business it takes to sell my crop and make it profitable I have too, it isn't an option. For instance grape tomatoes come in a plastic container, this is the industry standard, I didn't decide on this and have even presented other ideas but they have not gotten any interest. It is either make the product this way or don't sell us. To make it practical to do for me at this point would require industry wide changes which I can be a part of and help with but ultimately I don't control. I hardly use any plastic, the only place I do is in the required items. Also, as a farmer I place great value on the earth and I feel like I do more than my part to try an improve this whole situation. I am not saying all this to be opposite the original poster's view because I totally agree but it is hard to actually make some of this stuff happen.

 

 

That is a tough spot to be in, and kind of goes to show where the problem lies when big box stores are making it a prerequisite to have this type of package. They indeed could be stakeholders in the packaging companies that produce the PET or PP plastic containers, so they may not like anything you give them, and surely there are lines of people wanting to get in behind you.

 

My only suggestion is to present to them something where the packaging is marketed as "environmentally friendly". Lot's of companies do this now, some lie about it (it's called greenwashing) in order to get additional profit. But if you were able to present to them an alternative packaging presentation and covered all the benefits, leaving little setbacks, convincing them customers will choose your product over the other simply because of the advertised packaging may be one possible solution. It's a bit of work on your part, but all worth while, you could even make a facebook group or something about your tomatoes and your suggested packaging, and if you get enough people aware, I'm sure those stores will allow it.

[frankiej]

Earth has taken the abuse for this long, I'm sure it can handle more .

 

/comment

[TheHarakiriEnd]

That is a tough spot to be in, and kind of goes to show where the problem lies when big box stores are making it a prerequisite to have this type of package. They indeed could be stakeholders in the packaging companies that produce the PET or PP plastic containers, so they may not like anything you give them, and surely there are lines of people wanting to get in behind you. My only suggestion is to present to them something where the packaging is marketed as "environmentally friendly". Lot's of companies do this now, some lie about it (it's called greenwashing) in order to get additional profit. But if you were able to present to them an alternative packaging presentation and covered all the benefits, leaving little setbacks, convincing them customers will choose your product over the other simply because of the advertised packaging may be one possible solution. It's a bit of work on your part, but all worth while, you could even make a facebook group or something about your tomatoes and your suggested packaging, and if you get enough people aware, I'm sure those stores will allow it.

 

 

There are people working on stuff like this and some things out there but like I said the customers spec sheet for produce (which comes from high above who I would deal with) is what tells us what we have to do and as of yet none of these ideas have taken hold. If I don't meet the requirements someone will.

[Amigo]

 

There are people working on stuff like this and some things out there but like I said the customers spec sheet for produce (which comes from high above who I would deal with) is what tells us what we have to do and as of yet none of these ideas have taken hold. If I don't meet the requirements someone will.

 

 

So basically what your saying is that it's not a question of whether or not we could replace the packaging, you know we can, it's whether or not the policy allows you to in essence?

[TheHarakiriEnd]

So basically what your saying is that it's not a question of whether or not we could replace the packaging, you know we can, it's whether or not the policy allows you to in essence?

 

 

From my experience only in my field I would say yes but I have no idea what other people's businesses require of them, I am not educated enough to make that call universally.

[dubkitty]

You're quite right, I shall waddle out into the middle of the ocean with my boat shoes and attempt to pick up the hundred thousand tonnes of plastic quicker than {censored}s like you can drink your coke and chuck it in the rubbish. I shall put all this plastic into a rucksack and carry it around with me wherever I go so that nobody ever has to deal with it.

 

 

or you could, e.g., contribute financially to an effort to clean up the Pacific Gyre. but, again, that would require YOU to take responsibility, and you'd rather have governments attempt to force your wishes on somebody else. it's always easier to blame somebody else from your comfy chair, isn't it?

[TheHarakiriEnd]

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Grape-Tomatoes/13448902#Specifications

 

I can't actually post things these companies send to me and this is a {censored} version of it but even there on spec at container type it only lists plastic. The spec sheet I have is much more specific on exactly what they need (if it isn't just right they reject everything).

[dubkitty]

I know we are supposed to not call names, but if you are not just trolling and in fact serious (and since you called first) you are a {censored}ing {censored}head. It's not just what's already there it's what is on its way. Why the {censored} should I have to pick up your trash that you're too {censored}ing lazy to deal with. In order for there to actually be a change, government intervention has to take place.

I recycle my plastics, silly boy. by doing so, and recycling other materials, i save approximately 40% of what i'd otherwise have to pay to dispose of my household trash at the local landfill. market incentives work.

[christianatl]

My manifesto.

I'm writing it.

Andermocs and I are building bunk beds and a log cabin.

[goaway]

 

My manifesto. I'm writing it. Andermocs and I are building bunk beds and a log cabin.

 

 

can i build my cabin near yours so we can have neighborhood cookouts?

[Amigo]

 

I recycle my plastics, silly boy. by doing so, and recycling other materials, i save approximately 40% of what i'd otherwise have to pay to dispose of my household trash at the local landfill. market incentives work.

 

 

you're missing the point.... my point is that it's bad enough and we should make an effort to stop them from being used from now on. Like TheHarakiriEnd said. The stipulations smaller companies have to follow require them to use plastic containers for their products. Recycling 40% of your {censored} doesn't really do much especially when you throw away most of that plastic and you are one of the few people that actually bother recycling. Yes an effort should be made to clean up what's there, but more importantly the people that are elected and paid to "lead" our societies need to step it the {censored} up and make a point of changing these policies.

[christianatl]

 

can i build my cabin near yours so we can have neighborhood cookouts?

 

 

Yes.